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  #9861  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2023, 4:57 PM
cllew cllew is offline
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
The downtown parkades I've seen are nowhere near as busy now as they were before the pandemic. This St. Regis parkade seems like a big bet for an area that hasn't seen much growth in decades... are they tying this to the Public Safety Building in some way? Even then, the adjacent office tower is empty.

Is there really that much demand for parking there? I mean, I could have seen it working had SkyCity been built...
To get he police officers to take up stalls in this new build the cost would have to be less than what was proposed under the union agreement with the city to use the library lower level.

It would also be less safe as the officers and civilian staff would still have to walk outside the PSB instead of using the secure after hours skywalk link
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  #9862  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2023, 1:21 AM
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Only The Lonely.. Only The Lonely.. is offline
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I am guessing that this goes back to the drawing board.

Rising interest rates, a depressed market for downtown parking (at bargain basement Winnipeg parking rates no less), and no previous developer experience with projects of this scale suggest that this is just an idea.

I don't think there is even an eleven story parkade in downtown Toronto.

It's a shame a building was lost for another speculative development.
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Last edited by Only The Lonely..; Jun 26, 2023 at 1:32 AM.
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  #9863  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2023, 3:35 AM
NewIreland NewIreland is offline
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Originally Posted by Only The Lonely.. View Post
I am guessing that this goes back to the drawing board.

Rising interest rates, a depressed market for downtown parking (at bargain basement Winnipeg parking rates no less), and no previous developer experience with projects of this scale suggest that this is just an idea.

I don't think there is even an eleven story parkade in downtown Toronto.

It's a shame a building was lost for another speculative development.
The city learned nothing from the Shanghai debacle.
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  #9864  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2023, 6:54 PM
BAKGUY BAKGUY is offline
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Totally agree re: the last point. But put yourself in the shoes of the typical immigrant. Like someone who arrived from Ukraine. A place where downtown areas are clean and orderly. They are bustling hubs of retail and commerce.

Then you come to Winnipeg and take a stroll down Portage. What do you see? Empty storefronts. Traffic. Panhandlers. Smashed things. Crumbling infrastructure. Visibly intoxicated people. It's dirty. What on earth is going to make anyone see that and think "I need to live here?"

I'm not saying downtown Winnipeg is not without some appeal. But the appeal is extremely limited. I'd say the main demographics are 20-35 year olds who value the culture, nightlife and entertainment aspects of downtown, and 65+ seniors who like the skywalks and proximity to doctors and such although even that is diminishing now that there is hardly any shopping left in the area, and both the Boyd and Medical Arts Building no longer house medical clinics.

There is a ton of work to be done improving things before it is anywhere near the point of being attractive to newcomers. You could argue that we were getting there until the meth explosion and then the pandemic pretty well turned the clock back to 1997.
In terms of residential offerings yes. But I can say that retail wise, we were in a far better way than now. EATONS was still using 7 of their 9 floors and The Bay was using all 7 then.Both grand stores were still offering Grocery options.
ETONS alone had over 35,000 ft2 not to mention other food departments and pharmacy. Holt-Renfrew was still operating and there were many dozens more stores in both Eaton Place & Portage Place. The largest store now in GT Boutique.Other than a couple of dollar stores, Portage avenue is worse than ever & from what I have heard, Broadway is where any action and growth will be.Portage Avenue, unfortunately will have a slight brushing of its teeth with the redevelopment of P Place but it basically is a give up on Portage avenue as nothing has ever worked so lets clean it a bit and accept we can not change its fortunes just supply more agencies to deal with the situation mindset.
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  #9865  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2023, 6:58 PM
BAKGUY BAKGUY is offline
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Originally Posted by NewIreland View Post
The city learned nothing from the Shanghai debacle.
Exactly.
The lot remains empty a decade later & not a word on the proposed seniors residential development.I felt that was they way it would play out when the historic Coronation Block was destroyed. I would rather see it still around than the windswept empty look on King now.
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  #9866  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2023, 7:07 PM
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Originally Posted by BAKGUY View Post
In terms of residential offerings yes. But I can say that retail wise, we were in a far better way than now. EATONS was still using 7 of their 9 floors and The Bay was using all 7 then.Both grand stores were still offering Grocery options.
ETONS alone had over 35,000 ft2 not to mention other food departments and pharmacy. Holt-Renfrew was still operating and there were many dozens more stores in both Eaton Place & Portage Place. The largest store now in GT Boutique.Other than a couple of dollar stores, Portage avenue is worse than ever & from what I have heard, Broadway is where any action and growth will be.Portage Avenue, unfortunately will have a slight brushing of its teeth with the redevelopment of P Place but it basically is a give up on Portage avenue as nothing has ever worked so lets clean it a bit and accept we can not change its fortunes just supply more agencies to deal with the situation mindset.
I agree that things were better in 1997, but by then Portage Avenue retail was already in its death throes... Eaton's was down to 5 floors as I recall, and it would shut down for good by 1999. I can't remember if Holt's was still around as a mainline store but if it was, it wouldn't be long before it became an outlet store for its final years before closing. At least The Bay was still chugging along until the company got its hands on a Polo Park location at which point it slowly started its long demise.

The reason I mentioned 1997 is that because for many years, that was considered the year in the recent past when downtown had bottomed out. But since the pandemic, it has been much worse than 1997 ever was. The only real positive difference since then has been the construction of the arena.
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  #9867  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2023, 7:21 PM
BAKGUY BAKGUY is offline
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I agree that things were better in 1997, but by then Portage Avenue retail was already in its death throes... Eaton's was down to 5 floors as I recall, and it would shut down for good by 1999. I can't remember if Holt's was still around as a mainline store but if it was, it wouldn't be long before it became an outlet store for its final years before closing. At least The Bay was still chugging along until the company got its hands on a Polo Park location at which point it slowly started its long demise.

The reason I mentioned 1997 is that because for many years, that was considered the year in the recent past when downtown had bottomed out. But since the pandemic, it has been much worse than 1997 ever was. The only real positive difference since then has been the construction of the arena.
On the positive, I guess we can add the Alt Hotel/Stantec building also with some presence on Portage ave.
EATONS in late 1997 went to 5 full functioning regular retail floors plus..in addition 2 floors of clearance ..apparel with brands we did not have here from Eastern Canadian stores. on 5 along with The Valley Room & Soup Kettle.. & the 1800 Wellington ave Warehouse closed so clearance Furniture on 6.. I was there through it all.I still have the battle scars.
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  #9868  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2023, 8:53 PM
CoryB CoryB is offline
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I'm likely one of the most pro-parking people on this forum and even I think that 11 story parkade is a nightmare.

Where the parkade is located the normal traffic flow is northbound so for Jets games/event nights getting out of the structure will be challenging and heavily constrained. Also being on Smith there is unlikely to be willingness to approve traffic controls like we see on other streets near the area.

The other challenge I see is how are they planning to move vehicles up and down the building. A pair of corkscrew ramps is the most space efficient but can be challenging with vehicle sizes. Still remember family having issues with one in Italy in a BMW X1. The one ramp in the old Eaton's parkade on Hargrave used to constantly have scars on the wall from oversized vehicles.

Also with 11 floors a design with ramps on the north and south corners is going to lead to a fairly poor customer experience.

All combined that is going to lead to people actively avoiding the new structure.

Further, I do not know the number of planned parking spots in the structure but I strongly suspect it is going to cause a short term price reduction in downtown parking. It is going to add far too many spots at a time when demand itself has dropped slightly.
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  #9869  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2023, 9:04 PM
CoryB CoryB is offline
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
I agree that things were better in 1997, but by then Portage Avenue retail was already in its death throes... Eaton's was down to 5 floors as I recall, and it would shut down for good by 1999. I can't remember if Holt's was still around as a mainline store but if it was, it wouldn't be long before it became an outlet store for its final years before closing. At least The Bay was still chugging along until the company got its hands on a Polo Park location at which point it slowly started its long demise.

The reason I mentioned 1997 is that because for many years, that was considered the year in the recent past when downtown had bottomed out. But since the pandemic, it has been much worse than 1997 ever was. The only real positive difference since then has been the construction of the arena.
First of saying the Bay was still chugging along fine in downtown Winnipeg in the late 90s is being heavily disingenuous. They were already gasping for air at that point and the signs were as clear as day they were already in a slow death spiral. Basic maintenance on the interior had long stopped already and the building was being left to rot from neglect. The building, not the retailer, was being fairly openly shopped already to anyone that might be willing to take over the space. And lots of the space still being used as a going retail concern was sparsely filled with cheap space filler in a futile attempt to look less empty.

As for thinking of the late 90s as the last great boom on downtown retail, that itself is heavily looking past all the signs of trouble that were already on the horizon. Even if we gloss over online shopping CF has already gone bankrupt and walked away from Portage Place and more than half of Eaton's place is sitting empty with plans to convert the northern part of the mall (since demolished) until something other than retail. Sure Portage Place opening in 87 turned the tide for a short time but it was just that very short and fleeting.

The reality is more niche brands like Holts would quickly learn that online sales could easily reach customers in Winnipeg for lower costs than running a story. We need to face the hard reality that the decline in downtown Winnipeg traces as far back as the 60s and further that it follows a fairly global trend of consolidation in retail. You can see fully abandoned shopping developments in lots of other cities that are the size of Polo Park or even larger. If this retreat from traditional retail is just a Winnipeg thing how come I see the same signs everywhere I travel?
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  #9870  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2023, 9:13 PM
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^ Dude, I literally said Portage Avenue retail was in its death throes back then. No one thinks there was any downtown retail boom in the 90s.
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  #9871  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2023, 2:11 AM
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Labroco Labroco is offline
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This has got to be the most stupid proposal I’ve heard of on this forum ever. Why would anyone spend $40,000,000 when one could purchase today an 182 stall five level parking structure on Garry for $13,000,000 already built? It comes with a 118,000 12 storey office building leased and in good condition.

There is another structure by the Marlbough Hotel for sale as well.

One could purchase them both for $20,000,000 with existing cash flows, modest deferred maintenance and NO CONSTRUCTION risk or cost over runs.

I still don’t believe the St Regis site is actually sold with $4,000,000 in the bank.

The details continue to be vague.

Why can’t we just get 6 or 7 floors of apartments built of wood on that site with NO PARKING? That’s what was done on Alexander.

Last edited by Labroco; Jun 27, 2023 at 1:58 PM.
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  #9872  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2023, 2:40 AM
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I mean does anyone have any hard evidence that this parkade is actually a real proposal with any kind of forward movement or are we all just yelling into the void on this?
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  #9873  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2023, 12:54 PM
TimeFadesAway TimeFadesAway is offline
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Originally Posted by WinCitySparky View Post
I mean does anyone have any hard evidence that this parkade is actually a real proposal with any kind of forward movement or are we all just yelling into the void on this?
It certainly seems ridiculous to the point of being untrue!
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  #9874  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2023, 1:18 PM
bomberjet bomberjet is online now
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The source is pretty reliable.
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  #9875  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2023, 1:49 PM
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pspeid pspeid is offline
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I heard 300 Main is going to be capped out at 21 storeys. Really, a good inside source.

IMO every rumour just needs to be taken with a huge grain of salt.
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  #9876  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2023, 1:59 PM
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I heard 300 Main is going to be capped out at 21 storeys. Really, a good inside source.

IMO every rumour just needs to be taken with a huge grain of salt.


Truth!
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  #9877  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2023, 2:11 PM
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pspeid pspeid is offline
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As much as many people here hate to see promising construction projects in Winnipeg stall, or not even get started, from what I've read it's a pretty common occurrence all over the world. The percentages change from one source to another, but they usually seem to be pretty substantial. I'm sure Winnipeg has it's own unique difficulties to overcome (supply, labour, climate, soil conditions, rules & regulations, etc.) but then again so do many other places.

My guess, as a casual observer (not in the industry), is that our climate and relative isolation from other larger centres makes building in Winnipeg more of a challenge than other places, but hey, things can get done (witness the new Wawanesa building).
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  #9878  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2023, 2:57 PM
CoryB CoryB is offline
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Anyone know what Paragon is up to on the south side of Portage near Deer Lodge? Based on the area I would guess it is a midrise apartment.
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  #9879  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2023, 3:26 PM
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Anyone know what Paragon is up to on the south side of Portage near Deer Lodge? Based on the area I would guess it is a midrise apartment.
Looks like 7 story residential. The address is 2140 Portage Ave and the projected completion date is October 2024.

https://www.paragonliving.com/build
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  #9880  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2023, 5:01 PM
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Malcsta Malcsta is offline
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Originally Posted by Biff View Post
Positive news for a project starting up downtown shortly....cryptic I know - for now.

not small


...not The Bay or PP
Quick, while everyone is distracted by 11 storey parkades.. give us some more info on this
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