Highways in Canada

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

I find the TCH routing weird past Rouyn-Noranda because it seems to make more sense to follow QC-101, QC-393, QC-388 then ON-101.
(Plus this would have guaranteed a speed limit of 90 kph on ON-101 east of Timmins except through Matheson. )

I've done that 101-393 etc. route north of Rouyn then across to Matheson. It's not as fast or as good a road as going through Kirkland Lake - which isn't that great either. Though none of the routes in NE Ontario - NW Quebec are great and therefore no-brainers.

EDIT: Though Rouyn-Noranda was bypassed a year or two ago, so both main cities in Abitibi (it and Val-d'Or) both have bypasses now.

[MonctonRad]

The TCH is an afterthought in both ON and QC. In the rest of the country, the TCH is/are almost always the principle highway(s) in the province, and are treated as such. Usually the route marker is the familiar green sign (and badge) with the maple leaf.

In QC and ON, the TCH frequently is a secondary route, and the green badge can be very difficult to find.

Why is this? Was there some form of concern over federal overreach at the time of creation of the TCH in these two provinces? One would assume the 400 series highways in ON would be part of the TCH system (for example).

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

The TCH is an afterthought in both ON and QC. In the rest of the country, the TCH is/are almost always the principle highway(s) in the province, and are treated as such. Usually the route marker is the familiar green sign (and badge) with the maple leaf.

In QC and ON, the TCH frequently is a secondary route, and the green badge can be very difficult to find.

Why is this? Was there some form of concern over federal overreach at the time of creation of the TCH in these two provinces? One would assume the 400 series highways in ON would be part of the TCH system (for example).

Ontario Highway 417 from maybe 70 km west of Ottawa (Arnprior-Renfrew area) all the way to the Quebec border where it becomes A-40 is in fact part of the TCH.

Though that wasn't always the case. Highway 17 which is closer to the Ottawa River shore and was the old highway between Ottawa and Montreal, used to be the TCH. But Ontario downloaded it onto local governments 20-30 years ago, and moved the TCH designation onto the 417.

[MonctonRad]

True, but the TCH beyond Ottawa follows a central Ontario route rather than the more logical Highway 17. Why is this? It makes no particular sense.

Again, there should be (at least) two TCH routes in southern Ontario - the 17/417 and the 401. Ideally, there should be a network of federal TCH highways in both ON and QC. Both Autoroutes 20 & 40 in QC should be designated TCH (if you ask me)

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

True, but the TCH beyond Ottawa follows a central Ontario route rather than the more logical Highway 17. Why is this? It makes no particular sense.

Both 17(northern route) and 7 (central Ontario route) west of Ottawa are designated TCH routes.

I think if you asked most people they'd identify the 17 as the TCH, as logically it's the route that takes you to Western Canada (eventually).

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

True, but the TCH beyond Ottawa follows a central Ontario route rather than the more logical Highway 17. Why is this? It makes no particular sense.

Again, there should be (at least) two TCH routes in southern Ontario - the 17/417 and the 401. Ideally, there should be a network of federal TCH highways in both ON and QC. Both Autoroutes 20 & 40 in QC should be designated TCH (if you ask me)

The A-40 is TCH from the Ontario border to A-25 a short highway in eastern Montreal to the Lafontaine tunnel towards the south shore.

From that point the A-20 is designated as TCH to Rivière-du-Loup, and then you get the A-85 and QC-185 combo as the TCH to the NB border.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Both 17(northern route) and 7 (central Ontario route) west of Ottawa are designated TCH routes.

I think if you asked most people they'd identify the 17 as the TCH, as logically it's the route that takes you to Western Canada (eventually).

I have heard the 401 incorrectly referred to as the Trans-Canada Highway, even in the local Toronto media. Years ago I remember a local CFTO reporter in Toronto repeatedly referred to the 401 as the TCH.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

I have heard the 401 incorrectly referred to as the Trans-Canada Highway, even in the local Toronto media. Years ago I remember a local CFTO reporter in Toronto repeatedly referred to the 401 as the TCH.

Yeah, that false impression is definitely out there.

One can understand why - it's the highway that links the two biggest cities in the country, and its most populated regions in general.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Acajack

The A-40 is TCH from the Ontario border to A-25 a short highway in eastern Montreal to the Lafontaine tunnel towards the south shore.

From that point the A-20 is designated as TCH to Rivière-du-Loup, and then you get the A-85 and QC-185 combo as the TCH to the NB border.

I know that. It's just that the TCH signage is secondary, and the highway is more a part of the provincial autoroute system than it is the TCH. Same thing goes for the 400 series highways in Ontario.

In the rest of the country it is the TCH which is paramount (with exceptions like the Coquihalla Highway).

If we are to have federally designated highways, then we should have a system, like the US interstate system. It should be coherent and logical. It doesn't need to be grade separated across the country like down there, but there should be a system of principle highways which are logically numbered.

[manny_santos]

In Alberta, I've noticed that the TCH designation has never moved off Highway 1 through Calgary onto Stoney Trail (Highway 201), even though logically a long-distance traveler would probably take 201 to bypass the city. Likewise with TCH 16 and Anthony Henday in Edmonton. At the same time, Regina's new bypass got the TCH designation moved to it.

I like how it's handled in Winnipeg; the TCH designation is used for both Highway 1 and the south part of the Perimeter.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I know that. It's just that the TCH signage is secondary, and the highway is more a part of the provincial autoroute system than it is the TCH. Same thing goes for the 400 series highways in Ontario.

In the rest of the country it is the TCH which is paramount (with exceptions like the Coquihalla Highway).

If we are to have federally designated highways, then we should have a system, like the US interstate system. It should be coherent and logical. It doesn't need to be grade separated across the country like down there, but there should be a system of principle highways which are logically numbered.

In terms of Ontario and Quebec, I think that one factor is probably that they had burgeoning intercity highway systems before the TCH project began. But in much of Canada, decent intercity highway linkages to the rest of the world (even if only two lanes) often "arrived" with the TCH project. This was arguably also true for certain parts of Ontario and Quebec too, but obviously not enough to affect the overall mindset in these provinces with respect to the highways.

You also have the fact that the TCH on an everyday level is pretty much out of sight and out of mind for the huge population share of Ontario (and even Canada) that lives in southern Ontario.

[hipster duck]

The TCH isn't a national highway system like what every other developed country in the world has, including other very decentralized federations spanning large distances like Australia and the United States.

Rather, it was a project that realized that basic road infrastructure had to be built through remote wilderness to knit together strategically important parts of the country. So, Ontario got a lot of TCH funding, but it was to blast a road through the Canadian Shield along the eastern shore of Lake Superior to connect eastern and western Canada. Or Newfoundland got its first real road and opened up its interior for the first time, as it was pretty clear even in the early 1950s that having a ferry taking multiple days to serve outport villages inaccessible by car was going the way of the dodo bird.

It was necessary at the time to bring Canada into the modern world, but I'm not sure it needs its own signage/designation nowadays, especially since the route numbers and markers don't really serve a useful purpose for people in Ontario, Quebec and the majority of Nova Scotia.

[Acajack]

When I was a kid, I remember people in Quebec referring to the A-20 between Montreal-Lévis-Rivière-du-Loup as "la Transcanadienne".

These days you don't really hear that anymore, and people just say "la 20" or "l'A-20" (which both sound almost exactly the same) or occasionally "l'autoroute Jean-Lesage".

The only stretch of highway that gets frequently referred to as "la Transcanadienne" these days is the stretch of A-40 in the western part of Montreal island, from A-15 (Décarie) to the bridge at the far western end of the island. Past Décarie going east the A-40 is referred to as "la Métropolitaine" or "the Met" in English.

Montreal traffic reporters often refer to this as "la Transcanadienne" though they also refer to it as the "A-40" too.

Some businesses on the A-40's service roads along this stretch have the TCH as their address. In fact, I was recently in the area and sampling EV charging stations and the addresses were like "6436 Route Transcanadienne, Pointe-Claire".

[dmuzika]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

You do know that Ontario and east, not Trans Canada Highways have any numbering system that is followed? 7, 11, 17, 417, and a few others I know I am missing are all "TCH" in Ontario. The 104 in Nova Scotia is the TCH. What is the need for the number change?

I am aware of how Ontario (and east) handles their portions of the Trans Canada Highway. The Central Ontario Route (69/400/12/7) might be the best example of what's wrong with the TCH where it bypasses the largest and most important city in the province but yet doesn't serve interprovincial traffic. It was selected as a compromise between the provincial government wanting a more southern route through its population centres (modern day 401, which didn't exist yet), and the federal government wanting a more direct connection through Northern Ontario. In the end the Central route was chosen, but in later years more northern direct routes were added anyway while the TCH became irrelevant in Southern Ontario.

There is precedence in Western Canada for renumbering highways for the TCH, albeit a long time ago. Alberta switched Hwys 1 & 2 while Saskatchewan switched Hwys 1 & 4 to make way for the original Trans Canada Highway; while Saskatchewan renumbered sections of SK 5 & 14 and Manitoba renumbered MB 4 to Hwy 16 for the Yellowhead.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Acajack

When I was a kid, I remember people in Quebec referring to the A-20 between Montreal-Lévis-Rivière-du-Loup as "la Transcanadienne".

These days you don't really hear that anymore, and people just say "la 20" or "l'A-20" (which both sound almost exactly the same) or occasionally "l'autoroute Jean-Lesage".

The only stretch of highway that gets frequently referred to as "la Transcanadienne" these days is the stretch of A-40 in the western part of Montreal island, from A-15 (Décarie) to the bridge at the far western end of the island. Past Décarie going east the A-40 is referred to as "la Métropolitaine" or "the Met" in English.

Montreal traffic reporters often refer to this as "la Transcanadienne" though they also refer to it as the "A-40" too.

Some businesses on the A-40's service roads along this stretch have the TCH as their address. In fact, I was recently in the area and sampling EV charging stations and the addresses were like "6436 Route Transcanadienne, Pointe-Claire".

Now that you’ve mentioned, it seems that A85 and Route 185 are referred to as “la transcanadienne” only sparingly, even though they’re TCH for their entire length.
Usually TVA CIMT CHAU just says “l’Autoroute 85” or “La route 185”.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by dmuzika

I am aware of how Ontario (and east) handles their portions of the Trans Canada Highway. The Central Ontario Route (69/400/12/7) might be the best example of what's wrong with the TCH where it bypasses the largest and most important city in the province but yet doesn't serve interprovincial traffic. It was selected as a compromise between the provincial government wanting a more southern route through its population centres (modern day 401, which didn't exist yet), and the federal government wanting a more direct connection through Northern Ontario. In the end the Central route was chosen, but in later years more northern direct routes were added anyway while the TCH became irrelevant in Southern Ontario.

There is precedence in Western Canada for renumbering highways for the TCH, albeit a long time ago. Alberta switched Hwys 1 & 2 while Saskatchewan switched Hwys 1 & 4 to make way for the original Trans Canada Highway; while Saskatchewan renumbered sections of SK 5 & 14 and Manitoba renumbered MB 4 to Hwy 16 for the Yellowhead.

But this still begs the question - what is the point of a TCH designation?

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

But this still begs the question - what is the point of a TCH designation?

It’s useful in the sense that, without it, one doesn’t know that it’s possible to drive across Canada.
It’s not something to be taken for granted.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

It’s useful in the sense that, without it, one doesn’t know that it’s possible to drive across Canada.
It’s not something to be taken for granted.

Sure, but people don't just drive across Canada on a whim. I'm not sure I understand the fascination with ensuring that the TCH is a set standard across the country, twinned through its entire length, etc. It serves different purposes in different areas.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

It’s useful in the sense that, without it, one doesn’t know that it’s possible to drive across Canada.
It’s not something to be taken for granted.

You mean you have never heard of the new fangled thing called google maps?

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by Acajack

This discussion reminds me that the A-15 (from Montreal northward) and the QC-117 route after that, all the way to the border with NE Ontario, are also designated as the TCH. Though no one refers to them as such - but there are secondary route markers along it that have the green TCH maple leaf sign.

It's always weird to me that my GPS shows it as the TCH when I am driving there.

ON Hwy 66 (from the QC Route 117 to ON Hwy 11) is also signed as TCH although nobody refers to it as being that.