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  #961  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2008, 10:51 PM
en2 en2 is offline
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Originally Posted by Rusty Gull View Post
Of all the closings, including Montreal-SF and Toronto-Rome, the closure of the Vancouver-Osaka route is the most economically significant. Very bad news indeed.
Lets hope that ANA can fly the route using their own equipment as the codeshare with AC on this route is going to end in October.
     
     
  #962  
Old Posted Jul 3, 2008, 6:58 AM
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WestJet and Air Canada engaged in game of 'airfare chicken'
$19 fares from Toronto to Montreal and $59 Vancouver to Calgary top new price lists

Bruce Constantineau, Vancouver Sun
Published: Thursday, July 03, 2008

AIRLINES - Canadians can expect more airline seat sales this year after WestJet and Air Canada served up $19 Toronto-to-Montreal and $59 Vancouver-to-Calgary fares Wednesday.

Airline industry analyst Rick Erickson said those are the sharpest domestic discounts the industry has seen in two years and expects there's more to come.

"What we can take from this is that demand is off and high prices and fuel surcharges are a big part of that," he said in an interview.

"Carriers' forward bookings can't be that strong, otherwise they wouldn't be doing this."

WestJet's regular price for a Vancouver-to-Calgary flight in early August was $195 on Wednesday.

Erickson noted the monthly load factor - the percentage of seats that are filled in a plane - at WestJet fell from 86.6 per cent in March to 79.5 per cent in May, still a healthy figure but the decline is a worrying trend.

"A drop of six or seven per cent doesn't sound like much, but that's a lot when you consider almost all of that [lost] traffic is absolute gravy to the carrier that goes straight to the bottom line," he said.

WestJet fired the first seat-sale shot Wednesday, offering $19 fares for flights between Toronto and Montreal and between Toronto and Ottawa. The airline also announced a $59 fare for flights between Calgary or Edmonton and Vancouver or Abbotsford.

Flights must be booked by today for travel until Sept. 30, and the number of seats at the discounted fare is limited.

The one-way fare price does not include taxes, fees and surcharges, so the $59 Vancouver-to-Calgary fare works out to $133.

Air Canada quickly matched the WestJet prices.


"We aim to be price competitive in all markets we serve and we are responding with competitive fares on select flights," Air Canada representative Angela Mah said in an interview. "The airline business is very competitive and we have always said we will offer competitive low-fare options."

WestJet representative Richard Bartram said the airline is pleased with its recent load factors and is adding capacity into the market.

"A few times a year, we will have a significant discount into the market to help stimulate travel for a particular time and that's what we're doing here," he said in an interview.

Bartram said seat sales will continue as the airline tries to strike a balance between profitability and stimulating demand by allowing people to travel at reasonable rates.

He said WestJet remains very concerned about the negative impact of high fuel surcharges.

"We're confident people will continue to travel but we know they will look for that low-fare leader or that cost advantage when they book their seats and I think that bodes well for WestJet," Bartram said.

While Air Canada recently cancelled several domestic and international routes to cut costs, Erickson noted WestJet recently announced the addition of new routes, including Calgary to Kamloops.

"It's also continuing its strategy of adding sunspot destinations and I don't see that being as badly hurt this winter," he said. "The strong Canadian dollar means we can still get reasonable value on a trip to the Caribbean or Latin America."

The Air Canada cutbacks are expected to slash up to 2,000 jobs across Canada. Mah said the airline is discussing "mitigation options" with unions. Details of the job cuts are still not available.

The Air Canada route cancellations and suspensions include Calgary-Prince George, Calgary-Comox, Vancouver-Sacramento, Vancouver-Osaka and Toronto-Kelowna.

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As long as they don't go bankrupt like the long list of Canadian airlines before them......
     
     
  #963  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2008, 10:08 AM
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I do hope somebody picks up the Osaka-Vancouver route.

Definitely the biggest economic blow of the announced cuts.

I hope JAL or ANA or even SIN picks it up. We have lots of flights to Seoul, why not make the SIN flight to Singapore route through Osaka-Kansai? I think this would be a natural choice AND either ANA or JAL doing at least a 767 ER run. Maybe an Indian Airline could do it too?

I hope we dont have to wait until the 787 before we get Osaka back. Come on JAL/ANA/SIN!!
     
     
  #964  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2008, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Hourglass View Post
YVR can't just "let" any airline move in. There needs to be a negotiated bilateral agreement with that country by the Federal Government. YVR's business is to serve the flying public, and therefore it's in their interest as well as the paying passenger's best interest to attract as many airlines and air service as possible.

YVR HAS been shafted, both by the government and by Air Canada. For example, Air France wanted to start non-stop service to YVR from Paris (which Air Canada doesn't serve non-stop from Vancouver, incidentally). No go due to the restrictive bilateral agreement between Canada and France (only YYZ and YUL). So now Seattle gets the benefit of nonstop service to Paris instead, along with the ancillary revenues from catering, servicing, landing fees, etc.

Singapore Airlines has been wanting to increase frequency for years. Philippine Airlines wants to increase frequency to YVR. But they've can't -- partly because of Air Canada. Yet Air Canada serves neither Singapore nor Manila (and has no immediate intention to).

How is this situation good for you as a traveler?
The issue with Singapore Airlines is that SQ isn't interested in carrying travelers between SIN and YVR, they're interested in carrying traffic between YVR and other airports as it now does with ICN. SIN itself has quite low O&D numbers from YVR and all of Canada and so the government feels that those numbers don't justify more service on YVR-SIN than that which is already there.

AC isn't around to prop up a single airport and serve it with vanity routes. It is in a highly competitive business and is competing not just against the likes of WS, but also the other North American markets. It always astounds me how bitter so many Vancouverites are toward AC considering the level of service they actually have from the airline, but also in general. The days of CP are over, and even if they were still a separate entity, it is very dubious that YVR would still sustain service to airport like NGO, or KIX. These airports have struggled to maintain service to almost every North American market that they've seen service to and are obvious cuts for any airline.
     
     
  #965  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2008, 7:25 PM
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Air Canada slashes Vancouver-to- Beijing/Shanghai service

Vancouver Sun
Published: Friday, July 04, 2008

VANCOUVER - Air Canada has slashed its Vancouver-to-Beijing/Shanghai service from 14 times a week to seven times a week as the airline cuts costs in response to record fuel prices.

The airline announced Friday that effective Oct. 26, it will fly from Vancouver to Beijing three times a week and from Vancouver to Shanghai four times a week. It currently offers a daily service to both Chinese cities.

Air Canada announced last month it would cut its system capacity by seven per cent and reduce staffing levels by up to 2,000 to become more efficient as fuel costs skyrocket. Previously announced route cancellations and suspensions include Vancouver-Osaka, Vancouver-Sacramento, Calgary-Prince George, Calgary-Comox and Toronto-Kelowna.

We prefer to maintain the integrity of the network by opting for reduced flight frequencies, rather than cancellations, and that's what we have done here by keeping a daily non-stop service between Vancouver and China," Air Canada representative Angela Mah said in an interview.

----------------------------------------------------------

While frequency cuts might not seem as bad as cancelled routes, this one looks pretty bad, especially considering the timing with the upcoming Summer Olympics in Beijing. Even though after the games, we're trying to promote BC over there, while AC is cutting service? Lol, such a joke.

These recent cuts really call into question the future of AC's strategy with YVR as its Asia-Pacific Gateway. I'm guessing Guangzhou isn't even on AC's radar anymore. I'd like to see how both AC and YVR try to spin this...
     
     
  #966  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2008, 7:33 PM
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Originally Posted by jeremy_haak View Post
AC isn't around to prop up a single airport and serve it with vanity routes. It is in a highly competitive business and is competing not just against the likes of WS, but also the other North American markets. It always astounds me how bitter so many Vancouverites are toward AC considering the level of service they actually have from the airline, but also in general. The days of CP are over, and even if they were still a separate entity, it is very dubious that YVR would still sustain service to airport like NGO, or KIX.
The flip side, though, is that many YVR boosters feel that we are still hindered by limits in the open skies agreement the feds make for us. I do not know all the details, and I can't find a handy link, but the fact that SEA was able to get a direct flight to CDG and not YVR still makes me sore...

It would be interesting to see what the federal process is like with trying to get flights to YVR, esp from European destinations...
     
     
  #967  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2008, 7:37 PM
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Originally Posted by phesto View Post
While frequency cuts might not seem as bad as cancelled routes, this one looks pretty bad, especially considering the timing with the upcoming Summer Olympics in Beijing. Even though after the games, we're trying to promote BC over there, while AC is cutting service? Lol, such a joke.
I think keeping money losing routes and then turning to the federal government to bail them out (AGAIN ) would be far worse. Air Canada is a business, not a Canadian PR company.
     
     
  #968  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2008, 7:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremy_haak View Post
AC isn't around to prop up a single airport and serve it with vanity routes. It is in a highly competitive business and is competing not just against the likes of WS, but also the other North American markets. It always astounds me how bitter so many Vancouverites are toward AC considering the level of service they actually have from the airline, but also in general. The days of CP are over, and even if they were still a separate entity, it is very dubious that YVR would still sustain service to airport like NGO, or KIX. These airports have struggled to maintain service to almost every North American market that they've seen service to and are obvious cuts for any airline.
I definitely see your point regarding AC, especially amid the current crisis of rising airline fuel costs it is unrealistic to expect AC to provide any level of service beyond what makes economic sense, and they don’t have to favour any specific airports when considering changes/cuts to service. However, you have to appreciate that this is an airline that has repeatedly suggested that they want to develop YVR as their gateway to Asia, while more recent developments suggest they can’t even maintain their current level of service. I suppose it is just the reality of the current airline industry, but it is a sad prospect for both YVR and AC in the short term.

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Originally Posted by WarrenC12 View Post
I think keeping money losing routes and then turning to the federal government to bail them out (AGAIN ) would be far worse. Air Canada is a business, not a Canadian PR company.
I would never advocate any form of protectionism, and I fully realize why AC is making the cuts. I'm merely pointing out the discrepency between AC/YVR's vision and the current state of affairs in the airline industry, and how it is subsequently sort of amusing to be promoting our province and trying to stimulate Chinese-Cdn economic interaction over there while airline service is being downgraded.
     
     
  #969  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2008, 8:29 PM
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At this rate, with all these route cuts, Air Canada wouldn't even exist in 10 years!
     
     
  #970  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2008, 9:30 PM
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Originally Posted by mr.x2 View Post
At this rate, with all these route cuts, Air Canada wouldn't even exist in 10 years!
Woohoo!
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  #971  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2008, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by mezzanine View Post
The flip side, though, is that many YVR boosters feel that we are still hindered by limits in the open skies agreement the feds make for us. I do not know all the details, and I can't find a handy link, but the fact that SEA was able to get a direct flight to CDG and not YVR still makes me sore...

It would be interesting to see what the federal process is like with trying to get flights to YVR, esp from European destinations...
From what I understand, the bilateral relationship with France is as much an issue with the French government restricting access to other markets in France as it is an issue with the Canadian government. I suppose that doesn't have to stop the Canadian government from opening up access to AF, but they tend to avoid giving out rights without receiving them in return. In any case, the government is apparently working on a liberal bilateral agreement with the EU which would hopefully eliminate some of these ridiculous restrictions.
     
     
  #972  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2008, 11:59 PM
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It's funny I just heard from an Air Canada staff after five years can fly free as long as they work at Air Canada. I can't imagine what other good benefits are there.... makes me wonder why they aren't slashing staff benefits before cutting flights -_-"
     
     
  #973  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2008, 2:49 AM
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One word my friend: unions
     
     
  #974  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2008, 3:18 AM
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Originally Posted by marmorek View Post
Woohoo!
You want to see us lose our only national airline?? Where is your Canadian pride?
     
     
  #975  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2008, 3:53 AM
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ill be interested to see if they cut back on toronto's asia service, (they currently have the same service (7X weekly, split between beijing and shanghai) that they are proposing for vancouver. but they use 777 aircraft. i could see them diverting a lot of YVRs traffic to toronto, AC loves doing that..
     
     
  #976  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2008, 4:15 AM
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Has anyone been on AC long haul recently. Their service and food really cannot match other Asian airlines flying the same routes and in some cases, their fares are even more expensive than the Asian carriers on some routes.

I think people who go to Asia frequently try to avoid AC as much as possible...
     
     
  #977  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2008, 4:22 AM
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Originally Posted by en2 View Post
Has anyone been on AC long haul recently. Their service and food really cannot match other Asian airlines flying the same routes and in some cases, their fares are even more expensive than the Asian carriers on some routes.

I think people who go to Asia frequently try to avoid AC as much as possible...
I haven't been on Air Canada for a very long time to a point i can't even remember what it was like....describe your experience, how is the food like?

I usually fly Japan Airlines on my way to Asia, all except one time during spring break when i flew Cathay. I've gotta say that JAL is awesome - great food, great service, and abundant washrooms. I hated Cathay - the food wasn't great and the washrooms were absolutely disgusting (long lineups too because there were like 2 washrooms for 100 people).
     
     
  #978  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2008, 4:25 AM
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Wow... Cathay isn't any bad compared to Air Canada. JAL is just top of the class though. Oasis back then wasn't too bad too, but now they are gone =(
     
     
  #979  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2008, 5:20 AM
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Originally Posted by deasine View Post
It's funny I just heard from an Air Canada staff after five years can fly free as long as they work at Air Canada. I can't imagine what other good benefits are there.... makes me wonder why they aren't slashing staff benefits before cutting flights -_-"
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftCoaster View Post
One word my friend: unions
My dad works at Cathay Pacific, and he gets free air tickets once a year, and it's never unionized. I don't think cutting this type of benefit would save that much money. There's tons of conditions with getting free air tickets. First, as I just said, he only gets it once a year, and also, those tickets are on standby, meaning that only once all full-fare ticket holders have boarded the plane, are the people on standby tickets be allowed to board (but usually my dad is allowed to board few days in advance once he knows that there's guarantee of extra seats). I used to get free air tickets too but since I'm past my age (max age is I think 19 for Cathay for free air tickets for children of staff working there), but I have to get tickets 90% off now.
     
     
  #980  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2008, 5:52 AM
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JAL is the #1 airline in the world, no question about that! Their service, food and comfort are all top notches. The stewardess are also very friendly,helpful and always have a smile on their faces. They are all pretty cute as well.

I am going to Hawaii later this month with Air Canada and I will find out how their service will be like!

Last edited by Hong Kongese; Jul 6, 2008 at 5:30 AM.
     
     
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