Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 5

[Orlando]

I love(hate) this classic Utah sentiment: "I bet they don't want a downtown and all the problems that brings." Amazon loves the urban vibe in Seattle.

[Jiffy]

Originally Posted by Orlando

I love(hate) this classic Utah sentiment: "I bet they don't want a downtown and all the problems that brings." Amazon loves the urban vibe in Seattle.

Also in their list of requirements they mentioned they wanted an urban center/ close to the urban center.

Pretty sad Utah keeps forcing to over look that detail.

[RC14]

Originally Posted by Marvland

..The other site that could be used in a split campus would be the 2200 W. corridor by the airport as there are hundreds of acres still available and shovel-ready. In concert with one of the Granary assemblages or Church owned sites, this could be the base of a strong proposal.

Good point. There is allot of land out there, it right next to the airport and I-215 and close enough to downtown.
All this location is missing is better access to TRAX and major arteries.

[EPdesign]

Originally Posted by twig

It seems like EP Design and many other Salt Lakers dropped off the face of the planet

Lol. I'm still here and reading what's posted. Just super busy with School, killing it at work to get promoted (putting together my first management team baby!!) and in my personal life...cleaning up after nasty a$* tenants that recently vacated a rental. My first property I got lucky, this one is just a pain. People. Smh. But still here. :-) .

[airhero]

I'd love something awesome like that to happen on North Temple, but it's not the most attractive area imo. Almost everything on the north side of the city west of the train tracks is either ugly or really ugly.

My big question is, why does Amazon want 100 acres? Seems excessive for something urban. If you build at an average height of 5 stories, 8 million sq ft of office space will only take up about 20-25% of the site at best. Sounds almost like a suburban office park to me. But the RFP says it could be, but does not have to be, a downtown campus with a similar layout to the Seattle HQ. Amazon's Seattle HQ acreage is nowhere near 100 acres. At most the total acreage in Seattle occupied by Amazon buildings is 25-30 acres. I'm positive it's even less than that. They are spread out over an area of about 130ish acres, but that includes streets and all the buildings, most of which aren't Amazon buildings.

But since 100 acres is called out in the rfp, I'm sure that will solidify the selection of the Draper prison site. True, the prison land itself is not available yet, but there is a lot of greenfield surrounding the prison.

[SLCLvr]

Originally Posted by airhero

But since 100 acres is called out in the rfp, I'm sure that will solidify the selection of the Draper prison site. True, the prison land itself is not available yet, but there is a lot of greenfield surrounding the prison.

It makes me wonder how many cities in the running really have 100 contiguous greenfield acres ready to go close to their downtown. Seems like they would have to go suburban or adjust that requirement.

[TheWire]

Originally Posted by airhero

I'd love something awesome like that to happen on North Temple, but it's not the most attractive area imo. Almost everything on the north side of the city west of the train tracks is either ugly or really ugly.

My big question is, why does Amazon want 100 acres? Seems excessive for something urban. If you build at an average height of 5 stories, 8 million sq ft of office space will only take up about 20-25% of the site at best. Sounds almost like a suburban office park to me. But the RFP says it could be, but does not have to be, a downtown campus with a similar layout to the Seattle HQ. Amazon's Seattle HQ acreage is nowhere near 100 acres. At most the total acreage in Seattle occupied by Amazon buildings is 25-30 acres. I'm positive it's even less than that. They are spread out over an area of about 130ish acres, but that includes streets and all the buildings, most of which aren't Amazon buildings.

But since 100 acres is called out in the rfp, I'm sure that will solidify the selection of the Draper prison site. True, the prison land itself is not available yet, but there is a lot of greenfield surrounding the prison.

Amazon seems like they are keeping all options open to bordering on being contradictory. On their website, they explained "Several years ago we outgrew our space in Seattle and we made a conscious choice to invest in downtown Seattle—even though it would have been cheaper to move to the suburbs. We now employ more than 40,000 people in Seattle who come from all around the world. Our employees tell us that they love being in the heart of the city. In fact, about 15% live in the same zip code as their office and about 20% walk to work. This is one of the many advantages of having an urban campus."

On the other hand, this RFP makes it sound like they are describing the mega campuses for tech giants in Silicon Valley. Apple Park is 175 acres. When built out completely, the Googleplex will be 133 acres. Facebook controls 200 acres near the Bay. Despite what they are saying about loving to be in an urban environment, it wouldnt surprise me if they are going after more of an insular campus like you see in Menlo Park, which, despite how much it irritates me to say this, would make the prison site not that bad of an option for that kind of development. GOED would love to put that arrow into the quiver of the "Silicon Slopes" portfolio.

[Marvland]

Originally Posted by TheWire

On the other hand, this RFP makes it sound like they are describing the mega campuses for tech giants in Silicon Valley. Apple Park is 175 acres. When built out completely, the Googleplex will be 133 acres. Facebook controls 200 acres near the Bay. Despite what they are saying about loving to be in an urban environment, it wouldnt surprise me if they are going after more of an insular campus like you see in Menlo Park, which, despite how much it irritates me to say this, would make the prison site not that bad of an option for that kind of development. GOED would love to put that arrow into the quiver of the "Silicon Slopes" portfolio.

I think the 100 acre requirement is a real thing, almost like that's the element that they are missing in Seattle. Prison site is slated to be done in fall of 2020, spring of 2021. That's four years until vacation of the Draper site. I don't think Amazon waits to start construction for four years. We have the land in SLC, just not in the urban core. 100 acres is a pretty hard thing to come by for any market so I see it being a split or disbursed campus with HQ in a shiny new tower and the rest spread out. IF the prison site has feasibility with the timeline I could get behind it if the shiny tower goes in SLC. Prison is just 15 minutes south of the core. Sometimes our valley seems bigger than it really is.

One other thing we have going for us is a $2-3 billion dollar airport expansion and a 1msf Amazon distribution center in planning along with a large UPS facility. Good mix.

[Marvland]

The real prize, my SLC friends is thus: Who gets the giant glass balls in their fair city?

[Utah_Dave]

If we don't get the Amazon campus I would like to see a rust belt city get it.

[asies1981]

Originally Posted by Utah_Dave

If we don't get the Amazon campus I would like to see a rust belt city get it.

It would be really cool to see Pittsburg get the Amazon campus.

[asies1981]

New housing report shows good news for developers (lots more development needed) and bad news for renters (rising rents).

[airhero]

Originally Posted by Marvland

I think the 100 acre requirement is a real thing, almost like that's the element that they are missing in Seattle. Prison site is slated to be done in fall of 2020, spring of 2021. That's four years until vacation of the Draper site. I don't think Amazon waits to start construction for four years. We have the land in SLC, just not in the urban core. 100 acres is a pretty hard thing to come by for any market so I see it being a split or disbursed campus with HQ in a shiny new tower and the rest spread out. IF the prison site has feasibility with the timeline I could get behind it if the shiny tower goes in SLC. Prison is just 15 minutes south of the core. Sometimes our valley seems bigger than it really is.

Amazon wouldn't have to wait 4 years. All they need for the first phase is room for 500,000 sq ft. The state owns over 600 acres there and the prison facilities only occupy around a fifth of it. I'm assuming much of the rest could be developed before the prison site itself becomes available.

There's still a myriad of other problems with the prison site though.

[Orlando]

Originally Posted by Orlando

I love(hate) this classic Utah sentiment: "I bet they don't want a downtown and all the problems that brings." Amazon loves the urban vibe in Seattle.

I'm quoting my own quote, but that quote really shows that:
1) This person is not familiar with the Seattle campus. They're no Microsoft way out in nowhere burb land. They are in the nitty gritty South Lake Union area of downtown.
2) He doesn't see the value in downtowns in general... typical Utah suburbanite

[stayinginformed]

Wouldn't it be funny if amazon chose Salt Lake then put it out just west of the airport and the international center, after the legislature stuck Salt Lake City with the prison? There is a load of space out there, and the city wants to develop it now that the state is going to install all of the infrastructure to run to the new prison site. Here is a map of the area with the new infrastructure they will be building. Just for scale it is 1.88 miles from I-80 to the southern border of the prison site.

[Marvland]

The Olympics are in play. The mold is broken. Let's do this:

http://www.sltrib.com/sports/2017/09...tacles-remain/

[Marvland]

Here is an interesting article with the chief of real estate at Amazon on their lease/buy strategy. They like a 50/50 mix, which opens up a whole lot of possibilities:

https://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/blog/techflash/2016/07/amazon-real-estate-chief-outlines-strategy-i-dont.html


No sane land or building owner or developer would look away from that. That would be the ultimate build-to-suit deal on the planet. Wouldn't it be nifty if Patrinely Group was in the conversation with Amazon on board as a tenant or partner and maybe Boyer mixed up with their tower as well?? Patrinely has 6.5 acres and the Holding's ear. If they could work with the Holdings on the Little America block, they could have almost 13 or 14 acres downtown. #DROOLING

[airhero]

Also, the Patrinely development will include 600,000 sq ft when completed. That is enough for Amazon's first phase (which calls for 500,000+). Patrinely already planned for this to be tech space. I wasn't even thinking Amazon would want to lease space. I assumed they owned all their buildings in Seattle. Seems like yet another win for south downtown, if Patrinely is on board. I can't imagine that they wouldn't be.

But I'm still stuck on the 100 acres thing. I just don't get it.

[San Diego-Honolulu]

Salt Lake City isn't getting the Amazon second headquarters. You all know this and need to be realistic with yourselves. Move on from this pipe dream. It's most likely going to Denver, Atlanta, or Austin.

[Marvland]

Originally Posted by San Diego-Honolulu

Salt Lake City isn't getting the Amazon second headquarters. You all know this and need to be realistic with yourselves. Move on from this pipe dream. It's most likely going to Denver, Atlanta, or Austin.

You're the coolest, bro.