City Murder Rates

[dc_denizen]

Originally Posted by Tosin007

Edmonton? Compared to what? Chicago, Detroit, Memphis, St. Louis, Baltimore,
Atlanta, Birmingham, Dallas, Houston? Edmonton is not really so bad.

it's bad if your a first nations person from edmonton.

[Tosin007]

Originally Posted by dc_denizen

it's bad if your a first nations person from edmonton.

Ok fine I will admit that/ can agree to that!

[mind field]

Detroit, MI at 291.

[tech12]

SF is at 54, after four murders this week. A woman was shot dead in the mission district, another woman was stabbed to death in lower pacific heights, and two men were killed in shootings in the bayview and excelsior districts. There were 52 murders total last year.

[Siriusly]

edit*

[Siriusly]

Originally Posted by Centropolis

i think we are nearing 300 for metro st. louis...which seems almost like an order of magnitude worse than chicago..

I wouldn't say St Louis Metro is "an order of magnitude worse than Chicago." That's 2.8 million people! So Chicago with 2.6 million has 460 more homicides. St. Louis proper had 176 homicides thru Dec. 3rd and that is terrible, 55 per 100,000.


Chicago is difficult to explain but looking at the violence and homicide rates through the lens of an entire cosmopolitan city with millions of people obviously dilutes the totals and greatly understates the devastation and despair in the areas of the city which have devolved into literal war zones. For example, on the South Side of Chicago, Hyde Park is affluent, 50% Caucasian and home to the University of Chicago and the Museum of Science and Industry. Directly to the south lies the Woodlawn neighborhood which is a hotbed of extreme poverty, drugs and gang violence with a population that is 97% African American. It is the birthplace of the Black P.Stones. This sort of insularity and segregation is a reality in Chicago. I've had this debate with my family that is from Detroit who believe Chicago is overrated and they always say other cities, namely Detroit have much higher homicide rates so therefore they must be "worse." I'm not sure how widespread the violence in Detroit is. I would imagine since they've lost half of their population there is a large criminal presence left in the city spanning much of the boundaries like Gary, IN. I went to Detroit years ago in the mid-2,000's and the entire city looked run down and even buildings downtown were abandoned and dilapidated. The high rise lobbies and entrances had bars and gates on them or windows boarding them up, etc. It was a sprawling ghetto. Chicago is very different. There is not a "North Side" equivalent or a luxury downtown housing market where hundreds of thousands of well off people live in neighborhoods with extremely low crime rates that off set the numbers. If Chicago lost half of it's working class population leaving the areas to be consumed by gangs expanding their territories the murder rate would obviously explode. This is the case with most Rust Belt cities but Chicago has a massive GDP and diverse economy being much more stable.


Anyway, this is the thinking of many Chicago residents in denial and especially the police and elected officials who believe the city is quite safe as a whole seeing most of the violence can be ascribed to isolated areas on the South and West Side's. It is a mindset that the violence is contained among the savages so there's no real need to damage the city's reputation based on a few pockets of the city. This of course is actually true from a demographic and geographical standpoint and where the problem lies. The adverse affect of this is the people living in the war zones have been largely left to their own devices. I read an article which said that 72% of homicides were solved in the 1990's compared to just 21% today. Of Chicago's 759 homicides in 2016, 576 cases have not seen an individual charged.

When you break down the "Chiraq" element to the city you will find there are no more dangerous areas in the world. Englewood and West Englewood have a combined population of 58,000 or so and have tallied 86 homicides in 2016. That is a rate of 146. The East and West Garfield Park neighborhoods have 57 homicides with a population of 38,000 for a rate of 150. North Lawndale has 32 homicides with a population of 32,000 for a rate of 100. All of these neighborhoods are at least 90% African-American with median incomes below the poverty line. Chicago neighborhoods serve as cities within a city where forced isolationism is frightening. I know many people in Englewood that have never been to the Back of the Yards neighborhood which borders it directly to the north. Back of the Yards has an high Hispanic population around 60% while Englewood to the south is 97% African American. Back of the Yards is much safer than Englewood though still dangerous. Bridgeport which is directly north of Back of the Yards has a high Caucasian population around 35% and is 35% Asian, only 2% African-American. It is a working class community with double the median income of Englewood and has nice housing developments, good schools, grocery stores and shopping centers. They are world's apart, I would wager most Bridgeport residents have never been to Englewood in their lives. You are talking 2 miles max. The majority of people in Garfield Park, Englewood and Austin have probably never been downtown. A famous rap producer from Chicago named Young Chop who has done songs for major artists made his first trip to the Loop and Millennium Park as part of an interview piece with Vice News. As he said, "growing up in Englewood, downtown may as well be a million miles away." It is sad that a large population of Chicago residents can only identify Chicago landmarks from television and movies while in reality they only live a few miles away from them. I can't speak for other cities but this phenomena is widespread in Chicago. It is well known that Chicago is the most segregated city in the country by some distance.

Even back when Gary In. (which is in the Chicago Metro) had 110 homicides and a rate of 91 per 100,000 being named "the murder capital of the world" there were still neighborhoods in Chicago that were more deadly than even the worst parts of Gary. To this day Gary has a murder rate above 60 and is technically "worse than Chicago" by that metric and I can tell you Gary is made up entirely of Chicago gangs as they expanded the drug trade east. I could give you 3 or 4 neighborhoods in Chicago that equals the population of Gary at it's worst point and there would be significantly more murders. I believe East St. Louis is the worst area in the St. Louis Metro and it is controlled directly by Chicago's gangs who they pay taxes to and where they get their orders from. Many of St. Louis' issues are merely an extension of the Chicago crime empires and are not "worse than it" but are rather a result of it.

Here is an article about the Gangster Disciples and Vice Lords taking over the streets of East St. Louis.

http://www.therealstreetz.com/2015/0...st-st-louis-2/

The East St Louis gangs came about with the Chicago gangs of the Vice Lords and the Gangster Disciples being introduced into the city, and eventually given the East St Louis ghetto a reputation of one of the most dangerous places in the country.

With the lack of nearby opportunities and drugs thriving in the urban communities of St. Clair County, the East St Louis ghetto gained a number of negative labels, whether it was the “Murder Capitol” or the “Most Dangerous City”.

[tech12]

SF is at 55 after a fatal shooting in Hunters Point. A man was also found stabbed to death in the castro district, but the cops aren't sure if it was a suicide or murder. Though if it was a suicide, it would have entailed a dude stabbing himself in the chest while walking down a busy street in broad daylight, with no witnesses. Which is possible...stranger things have happened. But i'll forever be suspicious of stuff like this, ever since the time the SFPD sparked an international incident by calling an obvious murder a suicide, and then reclassifying it as "unknown cause of death" when second opinions from foreign investigators and other local officials determined that it definitely was a murder, and not a suicide.

Originally Posted by Siriusly

They are world's apart, I would wager most Bridgeport residents have never been to Englewood in their lives. You are talking 2 miles max. The majority of people in Garfield Park, Englewood and Austin have probably never been downtown. A famous rap producer from Chicago named Young Chop who has done songs for major artists made his first trip to the Loop and Millennium Park as part of an interview piece with Vice News. As he said, "growing up in Englewood, downtown may as well be a million miles away." It is sad that a large population of Chicago residents can only identify Chicago landmarks from television and movies while in reality they only live a few miles away from them. I can't speak for other cities but this phenomena is widespread in Chicago.

I think that's relatively common throughout the country when it comes to impoverished people. You can find kids growing up in the projects in SF who have never seen the golden gate bridge in person.

[Flyers2001]

Philadelphia as of 11:59pm 12/12/16 is at 261.

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

LA had a really good month, which followed a bad one. From 11/6 to 12/3, we only had 11 murders. For the year, we are at 274, up from 264 last year and 235 the year before year to date.

Siriusly, thanks for that informative post

[Siriusly]

Originally Posted by tech12

I think that's relatively common throughout the country when it comes to impoverished people. You can find kids growing up in the projects in SF who have never seen the golden gate bridge in person.

I think that is sad that the only experiences many will have in major cities is that of their own neighborhood. I spent time in Memphis and the downtown around 10/11 pm. turned into a scene straight out of Boyz In Da Hood with hundreds of thugs circling the area hanging out of their hood-mobiles throwing up gang signs, drinking, music blasting and honking their horns creating traffic build ups. Police had no real reaction so I figured it must be tradition. The experience was surreal, I've never seen a similar event in Chicago. These guys were sitting still at green lights, jumping out to hollar at their homies 4 cars back, passing weed etc. Had that been Chicago riot teams would have been sent. Memphis was similar to Detroit in that I didn't really see any redeeming areas of the city. It was a sprawling ghetto in every direction.

I appreciate your response to my post about Chicago's gangs. I honestly didn't know that SF/Oakland had organized gangs. That was very interesting how they fought off the Bloods and Crips.

[Siriusly]

Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan

LA had a really good month, which followed a bad one. From 11/6 to 12/3, we only had 11 murders. For the year, we are at 274, up from 264 last year and 235 the year before year to date.

Siriusly, thanks for that informative post

Thank you, I was wondering when you say L.A. do those totals include the Compton, South Central and Watts areas? I always get confused about what is L.A. and what is L.A. County. Or are those those the totals for L.A. County?

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

Originally Posted by Siriusly

Thank you, I was wondering when you say L.A. do those totals include the Compton, South Central and Watts areas? I always get confused about what is L.A. and what is L.A. County. Or are those those the totals for L.A. County?

These are LA city numbers. Watts and a vast majority of South Central are part of the city of LA. The population is about 4.1 million. LA County has a pop of about 10 mil and the the homicide totals would be about double that of LA city (including LA city of course)

[Siriusly]

Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan

These are LA city numbers. Watts and a vast majority of South Central are part of the city of LA. The population is about 4.1 million. LA County has a pop of about 10 mil and the the homicide totals would be about double that of LA city (including LA city of course)

Thanks.

[kel]

Edmonton has had 15 murders from firearms and a total of 26 shootings counting the 15 killings so far in 2016. Stabbing deaths are at 8, blunt force trauma deaths are at 9, drug overdose 1, unknown or not released 8.
From Dec 1 2016

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

Originally Posted by Siriusly

Thanks.

Should have cleared up that Compton, Inglewood, Gardena, Carson, Long Beach, Culver City, Torrance, etc are all their own municipalities. Most have their own police forces or contract with the Sheriffs department

[James Bond Agent 007]

Kansas City at 121, highest since 2008:
http://www.kansascity.com/news/local...121104393.html

[Ryanrule]

Originally Posted by dc_denizen

I think the issue here is that any society, given the conditions, can evolve to what you might call a malign equilibrium - one where destructive social impulses are encouraged, rather than the opposite.

This seems to be the case in inner city African American Chicago.

Usually, a necessary condition is "too much freedom": an absence of authority that human beings need to exist and regulate their interactions. This can be government, it can be family, whatever. Another necessary condition is weak resistance to adversity, due to past abuse + discrimination, current discrimination, or other factors. A third is "not enough options". For anyone living on the south side, there is precious little to support oneself, besides illicit activities, thanks to decades of outsourcing and white flight.

You can see the same thing in any population though. "Ultra" supporters of Italian soccer clubs; El Salvadoran gangs; Islamic culture and its treatment of women, etc. You are beginning to see it in the white working class (see: overdoses and suicides).

The sociological challenge seems to be about breaking the cycle. In chicago, it probably will require government intervention (a big jobs program, open say only to African American males, or even a basic guaranteed income funded by say, offshored US corporate profits that trump confiscates), authoritarian police actions (curfews/weapons confiscations/national guard on the streets, all the stuff that lefties despise). I tend to think that when these two factors are in place, the strength of the african american church and family would be able to reassert itself, eventually correcting the problem.

the south side is not inner city.

[Ryanrule]

Originally Posted by tech12

SF is at 55 after a fatal shooting in Hunters Point. A man was also found stabbed to death in the castro district, but the cops aren't sure if it was a suicide or murder. Though if it was a suicide, it would have entailed a dude stabbing himself in the chest while walking down a busy street in broad daylight, with no witnesses. Which is possible...stranger things have happened. But i'll forever be suspicious of stuff like this, ever since the time the SFPD sparked an international incident by calling an obvious murder a suicide, and then reclassifying it as "unknown cause of death" when second opinions from foreign investigators and other local officials determined that it definitely was a murder, and not a suicide.



I think that's relatively common throughout the country when it comes to impoverished people. You can find kids growing up in the projects in SF who have never seen the golden gate bridge in person.

its not hard to get downtown. hop the red line turnstiles like the other trash. 20 minute ride.

[maru2501]

it is a thing though

I used to tutor second and third graders in Austin on the west side and plenty of them had never seen the lake

[BG918]

Originally Posted by maru2501

it is a thing though

I used to tutor second and third graders in Austin on the west side and plenty of them had never seen the lake

I used to read to grade schoolers at a low income school in Denver. They had seen the mountains but never been to them even though they are only ~20 miles away. They didn't even know what skiing was.