LOS ANGELES | Downtown Project Rundown 4.0

[ElDuderino]

Originally Posted by bobcat

Are baseball stadiums much larger than football stadiums? I know baseball fields are larger than football fields, but baseball stadiums have smaller capacities. I'm wondering if a baseball stadium could fit in the West Hall space.

They could even have AEG buy the Dodgers and move them to South Park while Majestic builds a new football stadium in Chavez Ravine.

To be honest I can't think of many negatives.

Baseball stadiums have a smaller footprint for the most part, so it probably would fit.

Even though Dodger Stadium is a total POS, it is still a classic in the hearts and minds of many Dodger fans. I do not think that tearing it down would go down so well, but then again, they did tear down Yankee Stadium.

[lanyc]

While I recognize that building dodger stadium in chavez ravine was a tragedy to start with, it still is one of the best stadiums in the nation, some might call it a POS but I think its hundred times better than the overly commercialized and sanitized POS's the mlb has been putting out the past 10-15 years.

[ChelseaFC]

What makes Dodger Stadium a POS? The bathrooms? It's a great stadium. It's a baseball stadium after all, not a luxury hotel.

There is plenty of room in Chavez Ravine to house both stadiums.

[Illithid Dude]

Honestly, switching the baseball stadium with the football stadium would be a great idea. Baseball stadiums are much smaller, and therefore much better for an urban environment. There is a whole tailgating culture to football stadiums, which would really not work downtown but would totally work where Doger Stadium is now. Only problem is that it would probably cost, like, twice as much. Two and a half billion dollars is a big amount of money any way you spin it. Would AEG really spend that much on something like this?

[bobcat]

^Well, if AEG buys the Dodgers it could bow out of the football team competition. I think they could still make the project work with a baseball team as well as a football team, even as far as making it a multipurpose events center for conventions and indoor events.

One big advantage to bringing the Dodgers to South Park is that the team is already here, unlike some hypothetical NFL team that may come to LA who knows when.

[LAofAnaheim]

Originally Posted by lanyc

While I recognize that building dodger stadium in chavez ravine was a tragedy to start with, it still is one of the best stadiums in the nation, some might call it a POS but I think its hundred times better than the overly commercialized and sanitized POS's the mlb has been putting out the past 10-15 years.

No, it's a POS. Key reason: inaccessibilty by reasonable public transit, or walking/biking. Compare that to the "overly commercial stadiums" of SF, SD, Chicago, etc... where people can WALK, bike, or take a train and be footsteps from the stadium. Dodger Stadium is the absolute worst located stadium in the United States. Even Arlington Stadium, which has no mass transit, at least is on ground level and can be walkable, bikeable. Dodger Stadium needs to be out of Chavez Ravine and put by Staples Center or at Exposition Park!

[Hubris]

But given how American baseball fields are designed, the "events center" aspect would be lost. There's aren't any indoor baseball stadiums in America are there? (I think Japan might have some.)

[ChelseaFC]

I don't know why everyone thinks Dodger Stadium is going to South Park. Where the hell is the convention center going to go? If you want an urban stadium, put it where the Sports Arena is.

[lanyc]

Originally Posted by LAofAnaheim

No, it's a POS. Key reason: inaccessibilty by reasonable public transit, or walking/biking. Compare that to the "overly commercial stadiums" of SF, SD, Chicago, etc... where people can WALK, bike, or take a train and be footsteps from the stadium. Dodger Stadium is the absolute worst located stadium in the United States. Even Arlington Stadium, which has no mass transit, at least is on ground level and can be walkable, bikeable. Dodger Stadium needs to be out of Chavez Ravine and put by Staples Center or at Exposition Park!

Fair enough. I'm huge fan of walkability and mass transit, but I guess I just have emotional ties to Dodger Stadium and a personal preference for historic ballparks. I do wish Dodger Stadium was originally built in a walkable neighborhood like Wrigley Field and I recognize that the Chavez ravine location is reflection of LA's 1960s car obsession, but its still an absolutely gorgeous stadium. In any case, I think the likelihood of a new stadium being built is extremely low, but Downtown would have my vote over Exposition Park. Exposition Park is inundated with museums and sport venues already, and I'm in favor of more open space and actual park land in that area.

[ChelseaFC]

There is no room for a baseball stadium downtown. The reason a roofed football stadium works is because it can double as convention space. The only place to put a baseball stadium semi-close to downtown is in the warehouse district north of Union Station/Chinatown.

[BrandonJXN]

Originally Posted by Hubris

But given how American baseball fields are designed, the "events center" aspect would be lost. There's aren't any indoor baseball stadiums in America are there? (I think Japan might have some.)

Tropicana Field in St. Petersberg, Florida (home of the Tampa Bay Rays). This is hands down the worst baseball stadium in MLB.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/__VPRhR8VA88/TK...s1600/tropicana_field_tampa_bay_rays.jpg

The Rays proposed this awesome looking retractable roof stadium a few years ago but it was cancelled.

http://fredtopeka.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/devilraysnew2.jpg

[LAofAnaheim]

^ Don't see how Tampa Bay is "hands down, the worst", when the parking lot is smaller than Dodger Stadium or Anaheim; looks like I could ride my bike to the stadium without facing a ridiculous uphill climb (I can ride my bike or take Metrolink to Anaheim). There appears to be a hotel walking distance from the stadium...any walkable hotels near Dodger Stadium?

Anaheim does trump Dodger Stadium in ease of access..by having Metrolink, biking capability, walk to a few restaurants (JT Schmidt, Hooters) a couple of hotels in walking distance, etc.... Dodger Stadium is basically 100% car driven...and even the Dodger Shuttle has no exclusive or right-of-way usage to get between Union Station and Dodger Stadium. Nothing takes the cake....like Dodger Stadium.

[LAofAnaheim]

There will always be emotional ties to baseball stadiums....I get that. People in LA will find Dodger Stadium as the greatest baseball stadium in the world because of tradition, etc... Just like people in New York call Yankee Stadium the greatest in the world...

But, you have to be realistic. Dodger Stadium is THE worst located baseball stadium in baseball. Unless you can show me a stadium on a hill and no public bus, train even serves (remember: Metro does not even serve Dodger Stadium directly, it's only because of the CEQA grant do we have a dedicated shuttle). Dodger Stadium has the feeling like it's the Acropolis of Los Angeles (look at photos of Athen's Acropolis....hard to get to, but a culture in its own right).

LA can do better with a relocated baseball stadium. Look at how much better Staples Center is in terms of ease of access now that it's in downtown LA and not in Inglewood. By December 2011, we'll have 4 Metro rail lines serving a centrally located stadium. There will always be "haters" here or there saying "traffic sucks downtown", but it's way better than in Inglewood when driving was clearly the near unanimous option.

[ChelseaFC]

"Could there be a better location for a Dodgers stadium" is not really the question though. It's "do they NEED a new stadium". And the answer to that is no. The Lakers/Kings needed out of the Forum. The Dodgers don't. Is Dodger Stadium a less-than-ideal location? Probably yes. But it's iconic and in great shape. The Dodgers are fine where they are.

[StethJeff]

Obviously, emotion has everything to do with it with respect to Dodger Stadium. People who claim that it is "one of the best ballparks in the country" obviously have never been to other ballparks. It isn't even the best ballpark in California, or Southern California for that matter. Of the places that I've been to, Denver, San Francisco, San Diego, and Anaheim are all better in my opinion. And it would be very hard to argue that it's better than Boston or CHC. When you separate the supposed history and mythology of the place away from it, Dodger Stadium is pretty crappy.

1) Shit Access - It's on a hill and completely separate from any shred of public transport. Can't walk, bike, bus, or rail there. Even better, there's almost no hope for good public transport anywhere in the near future either. And 2025 doesn't count as 'near future.' Consequently, it's an auto-centric mess. The freeway access that is does have consists of a lot of dangerous on-ramps on an already cluster-f*** mess where the 5 and 110 meet.

2) Neighborhood - It's surrounded by a) parkland which in no way benefits from having a stadium nearby and b) SFHs. And that's once you get past the 1/4 mile of endless parking spaces in all directions that buffer it from Elysian Park or suburban houses. As a result, no real opportunities to foster adjacent businesses (see Coors Field, which in my opinion is impeccably placed) and allow retail, bars, restaurants to grow around it.

3) It's Old - And not in a Wrigley/Fenway charming sort of way either. The place feels dingy and outdated. Case in point, the only real way of getting from the field level to anything beyond the loge is an escalator behind home plate. Personally, I think the Angels did a much better job with it's improvements on a stadium from a similar era.

Ever since I visited Denver and saw images from inside St. Louis' Busch, I've been a huge proponent of placing a baseball stadium downtown.

[StethJeff]

Originally Posted by bobcat

So yeah, what do people think of this idea that's been proposed:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=jc-cole_nfl_stadium_at__dodgers_stadium_site_050411

Seems like this guy didn't exactly do all of his homework before he published this article. First, the guy cites "easy freeway access" as a plus for the CoI site, when anyone who has driven through the 57/60 interchange knows that it's about as congested as the East LA Interchange. Second, he shows an old (and least popular) rendering for the proposed Farmer's Field. How long ago did Ginsler win the bid?

[BrandonJXN]

Originally Posted by LAofAnaheim

^ Don't see how Tampa Bay is "hands down, the worst", when the parking lot is smaller than Dodger Stadium or Anaheim; looks like I could ride my bike to the stadium without facing a ridiculous uphill climb (I can ride my bike or take Metrolink to Anaheim). There appears to be a hotel walking distance from the stadium...any walkable hotels near Dodger Stadium?

Anaheim does trump Dodger Stadium in ease of access..by having Metrolink, biking capability, walk to a few restaurants (JT Schmidt, Hooters) a couple of hotels in walking distance, etc.... Dodger Stadium is basically 100% car driven...and even the Dodger Shuttle has no exclusive or right-of-way usage to get between Union Station and Dodger Stadium. Nothing takes the cake....like Dodger Stadium.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/377766-from-best-to-worse-ranking-the-mlb-stadiums/page/2

Dodger Stadium is #18. Angel Stadium is #6 (!).

[ChelseaFC]

What exactly makes Dodger Stadium dingy and crappy? Please explain what is so outdated that simply a minor renovation to the concourses and bathrooms couldn't fix. I can't stand the new faux-retro cookie cutter stadiums that popped up this past decade. Just fake, sterile, baseball-versions of Disneyland. Busch, Coors, AT&T? Boring. They may be hot, new, and sexy the first time you hit it, but like any one-night stand who wears too much make-up, the lack of personality makes it get old real quick. I like my stadiums with some character, and if "charming" simply means your stadium has seat-obstructing pillars and old-school advertisements from the 1900's, sorry, but Dodger Stadium shouldn't have to apologize for the era in which it was built.

I'd be fine with a new Dodgers stadium, but it's hardly a priority. Comparing it to the Angels 1999 renovation is ridiculous though. If the new (or current) owners go through with some renovations to the top three levels and put in some nicer landscaping around the outside, it'll be fine.

[StethJeff]

You seem to be unfairly labeling all post-Camden Yards stadiums as "cookie cutter." Certainly there are similarities among the stadiums built in a certain era. The same way that there are plenty of similarities between Kauffman, Dodgers, and the old Milwaukee County Stadium. So I'm not sure where all this supposed character Dodger Stadium has is coming from. With that said, all this talk about cookie cutter stadiums makes me wonder what cookie cutter was used to build this??

[Quixote]

Originally Posted by ChelseaFC

What exactly makes Dodger Stadium dingy and crappy? Please explain what is so outdated that simply a minor renovation to the concourses and bathrooms couldn't fix. I can't stand the new faux-retro cookie cutter stadiums that popped up this past decade. Just fake, sterile, baseball-versions of Disneyland. Busch, Coors, AT&T? Boring. They may be hot, new, and sexy the first time you hit it, but like any one-night stand who wears too much make-up, the lack of personality makes it get old real quick. I like my stadiums with some character, and if "charming" simply means your stadium has seat-obstructing pillars and old-school advertisements from the 1900's, sorry, but Dodger Stadium shouldn't have to apologize for the era in which it was built.

I'd be fine with a new Dodgers stadium, but it's hardly a priority. Comparing it to the Angels 1999 renovation is ridiculous though. If the new (or current) owners go through with some renovations to the top three levels and put in some nicer landscaping around the outside, it'll be fine.

Agreed. I couldn't have said it better myself. I'll take shitty classic Dodger Stadium over a venue that resembles the manufactured theme parks that have been built over the last 15 years. The new Yankee Stadium is the only new ballpark that impresses me, but they poured billions into that thing.