Winnipeg Construction X

[EdwardTH]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

When I see new Canadians be they immigrants, refugees, those displaced from war torn countries etc. they all come here and seem to find work and are willing to work and then there is another group who feel they are owed and won’t work and are a drain on society….

Get fucked you piece of shit.

Mods, I don't know what kind of forum you think you're running here but you can't have people calling an ethnic group "a drain on society". You're allowing actual hate speech in here and people have been banned for so much less. What is it going to take for you to ban this poster who does this constantly and has never in their entire history here contributed any actual useful information?

[WestEndWander]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

When I see new Canadians be they immigrants, refugees, those displaced from war torn countries etc. they all come here and seem to find work and are willing to work and then there is another group who feel they are owed and won’t work and are a drain on society….

Such a shame to have a great thoughtful response by Basketballgeek be followed by this racist piece of shit.

Serious question, why are you even on here? You have noting to ever offer in terms of valuable critiques or insightful comments. Just constant racist right wing garbage posts. Sorry the Winnipeg Sun shut off commentary. It has got to be the only reason a miserable piece of shit like you is here, no?

[Jammon]

Originally Posted by Winnipegger

I'm pretty sure Spain, like many other European countries, trialed a "Housing First" policy that provided a treatment group of unhoused individuals with free housing - regardless of background or employment status - provided they accepted a variety of policy interventions. Like many other countries, Spain found it was a very successful program in providing better mental and physical outcomes for the treatment group relative to the control group. So I think Spain pursued a Housing First model to address homelessness, which would be why you didn't see much of it during your travels. More details can be read here.

And to esquire's point, a lot of the people in the trail run who were provided with housing did have substance abuse issues - Winnipeg isn't isolated in that instance. Yet it still provided better outcomes for them.

I think what is missing is a national approach, and one that absolutely needs to be led by the Federal government. Maybe it's not federal responsibility, but it's an issue that each city faces and it's not something that can be solved by the municipal government. The housing first approach is a hard sell to North American conservative governments because it goes against most of what they stand for: giving something free to people who may or may not be employed. It's hard to convince conservatives to pay taxes to give housing to someone who doesn't want to work and instead do drugs, yet the dividends to society (and the unhoused person) are quite clear in the literature. It would be a big investment (have to build safe and effective housing and staff it with people who can assist). It also needs to be coupled with a stronger justice system in my view. Can't just have violent criminals out after doing 2 years, who are prone to reoffend, living in these places and ruining outcomes for everyone else.

And in Winnipeg especially it could be difficult to implement, with the high concentration of poverty and addictions right near our inner city. You can't just create some megaproject with 4,000 dwelling units for unhoused people at Higgins and Main, you're just going to make the problem worse. There needs to be some sort of better housing system then what we've got for homeless, but the answers aren't easy.

The difference is substance use and methamphetamine.

Europe has not seen the epidemic of methamphetamine use that we have seen in North America and ours mostly originates from Mexico- it's not locally produced for the most part.

We can literally chalk up the bulk of our current problems to methamphetamine use. Meth induced psychosis is the predominant reason now people are admitted to addictions and psychiatric facilities/units.

[xubiqtss]

Is there any way to report the Ukraine flag guy?

If you believe the current literature, placing people into homes is the first and most important step. It is nearly impossible to address any other problems, such as addiction, without stable, unconditional shelter. It's very unlikely that this can be implemented in a society that relies so heavily on the market to solve problems. It is simply not a problem that the market can (or is interested in) solving. We cheer on the small examples of charity that build a few units here and there, meanwhile the government apparatus that ostensibly exists to house people continues to divest its real estate capital to private development.

[Brule-le]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

When I see new Canadians be they immigrants, refugees, those displaced from war torn countries etc. they all come here and seem to find work and are willing to work and then there is another group who feel they are owed and won’t work and are a drain on society….

Mods - can we ban this guy? I don't think he has ever made a construction related comment. He just litters every thread with trash like this, year after year. It makes me want to avoid this site. No one wants to be associated with this.

[thurmas]

Originally Posted by Brule-le

Mods - can we ban this guy? I don't think he has ever made a construction related comment. He just litters every thread with trash like this, year after year. It makes me want to avoid this site. No one wants to be associated with this.

No we should always allow free speech even if its for views we disagree with.

[thebasketballgeek]

Originally Posted by thurmas

No we should always allow free speech even if its for views we disagree with.

Simplicity, Urban Recluse, and DJForsberg all brought much more insightful takes then RRSkylar ever has and yet they’ve all been banned.

Enough is enough imo. Maybe the reason he’s still on here is because he’s an alt account for a mod

[WestEndWander]

Originally Posted by thurmas

No we should always allow free speech even if its for views we disagree with.

Free speech is not free of consequences, that's the thing.

Someone wants to act like a bigoted racist piece of shit then they get to deal with the consequences of those actions.

The guy is an armchair troll in his moms basement. His "insight" won't be missed.

[xubiqtss]

Originally Posted by thurmas

No we should always allow free speech even if its for views we disagree with.

It's been tried, you'd probably have a great time over at 4chan, it usually doesn't end well for normal people.

[audie]

This isn't the government locking someone up for wrong think, it's a niche forum about city development. If you're willing to die on the hill that no one should be banned, even for blatant racism, don't be surprised when everyone else moves on and the forum is a ghost town

[Sheepish]

Well Sklyer succeeded...raised everyone's blood pressure and distracted from the issue at hand...redevelopment of AC Park.
So to return to the issue...while the space can use an upgrade (it was originally created in the 80's), to spend the money only for it to become a homeless encampment makes no sense to me. And frankly it has to be done in coordination with a commitment to return Portage Ave to a place of people and activity - businesses, services, culture, restaurants, residential. Will the Portage Place and Bay redevelopments be steps in that direction? That's a big question. But the vacancies from Memorial to Main, are a very serious problem that, if left unchecked will only exacerbate the problem.

[ScrappyPeg]

Unconditional housing on its own doesn't do much and I have seen the results. There needs to be supervision (buzz word: wrap around supports) of the 24 hour sort which makes it nothing close to unconditional. Yes that brings it closer to an institution type of setting, but without the supervision you get crime, chaos and soon a return of those to the streets, the bus shacks and the tents.

Someone mentioned meth, and pair that with mental health issues - and that is the game changer here. It's not just about the sad guy who sits on the street having a beer.

I can name multiple addresses where it was advertised as providing 'rapid housing' for those with active addiction issues, those just released from jail, those who are 'hard to house'. There was no supervision, no security, no standards - 'unconditional'. The result was destruction, chaos, crime and fires that partially or fully destroyed the place(s). Many who were supposed to be living there were not, they had already returned to living in the tent villages, in bus shacks or where ever.

[xubiqtss]

Originally Posted by ScrappyPeg

Unconditional housing on its own doesn't do much and I have seen the results. There needs to be supervision (buzz word: wrap around supports) of the 24 hour sort which makes it nothing close to unconditional. Yes that brings it closer to an institution type of setting, but without the supervision you get crime, chaos and soon a return of those to the streets, the bus shacks and the tents.

Someone mentioned meth, and pair that with mental health issues - and that is the game changer here. It's not just about the sad guy who sits on the street having a beer.

I can name multiple addresses where it was advertised as providing 'rapid housing' for those with active addiction issues, those just released from jail, those who are 'hard to house'. There was no supervision, no security, no standards - 'unconditional'. The result was destruction, chaos, crime and fires that partially or fully destroyed the place(s). Many who were supposed to be living there were not, they had already returned to living in the tent villages, in bus shacks or where ever.

Where have you seen this fail before? And why do you assume unconditional means without supports? I'm referring to a very directed, heavily institutionalized effort to house people, along with additional supports to ensure they stay housed. Houston has done it with success (reduction of 63%). It doesn't mean housing 100% of people, there is a lot of variation in terms of why people are on the street, but imagine even addressing 50% of cases in Winnipeg.

More information if you'd like: https://www.smartcitiesdive.com/news...d-care/638641/

[ScrappyPeg]

Originally Posted by xubiqtss

Where have you seen this fail before? And why do you assume unconditional means without supports? I'm referring to a very directed, heavily institutionalized effort to house people, along with additional supports to ensure they stay housed. Houston has done it with success (reduction of 63%). It doesn't mean housing 100% of people, there is a lot of variation in terms of why people are on the street, but imagine even addressing 50% of cases in Winnipeg.

More information if you'd like: https://www.smartcitiesdive.com/news...d-care/638641/

I think we are probably seeing eye to eye on this matter. Winnipeg has very few institutionalized examples of this type of housing - The Bell Hotel seems to be one I can think of off the top of my head.

I am talking about the hundreds I see housed in places that offer no type of on site support.

I am not sure I agree we can compare a homeless population in Houston to the one in Winnipeg. There may be a higher percentage in Houston who experience homelessness to factors other than Meth and/or mental health.

[Sheepish]

You would be shocked at the numbers in Palm Springs CA! And they are behaving pretty much like those here in Winnipeg. Shocking and sad. So haven't been to Houston, but I have seen pretty challenging situations in many other American cities.
BTW...the McLaren project is designed as wrap around housing. I think the conversion on Main (north of the Bell) is also wrap around.

[Spocket]

I almost never agree with rrrskylar and don't here either but I think you guys are a lot too sensitive. I'm not seeing any racism in his comment. I disagree with it but I'm not seeing the racism some of you are talking about. I mean, he said basically that there are good and bad people in Canada. Is that somehow not true? Having been around the world, it's a simple fact of the human condition. I have no idea what it has to do with anything we're talking about and I think it's far less true of immigrants than the native population of Canada but it is still a fact of life. I, personally, would consider the "shiftless" population as being rather blind to race and it doesn't seem to have any requisites of the ethnic variety that I've ever seen.

[Kinguni]

Originally Posted by EdwardTH

I don't know what kind of forum you think you're running here but you can't have people calling an ethnic group "a drain on society". You're allowing actual hate speech in here and people have been banned for so much less. What is it going to take for you to ban this poster who does this constantly and has never in their entire history here contributed any actual useful information?

I can't believe it but I'm actually going defend him too. He didn't single out an ethnic group. The group he refers to has no ethnic boundaries. I don't necessarily agree with his generalization, but there is a generation brought up in the welfare system that know how to take best advantage of it. The street folk are not them. They need help, whether they like it or not. Now that statement is politically incorrect.

[1ajs]

i can see how he got interprited being racist, noticed it my self i did stop and tbink about it

im not about censoring into echo chambers im about chill lets talk and hear different perspectives and learn. yes we hear stuff we dont like we speak up and sometimes people actualy listen and learn from other perspectives

the people i banned well theres alot more that happened plp didn't see
and he is on thin ice he knows that now chill out everyone

and....
we can say theres a racist statement but we can also make a generic statement that its hard to find natural born canadians that work as hard i think its just a general perspetive he has and was atemping to say it with out sounding racist witch can be realy hard to pick the woding sometimes

and if we wana go down this discusion path we need to be able to call anyone out at times its just so damn hard to not sound racist. predjudice yes id say witch is deep in canada i personaly have my predjudices but always trying to listen.

and the space to react being upset is also important

again echo chambers are no good. this how u get donald trump elected as we become blind not seeing things and then dont vote cause were in a echo chamber thinking its all hunky doory

take what u guys think from this
and he does get on my nerves too

i dont take banning people lightly. i put up with allot of abuse from people too u never see

[P&M40BELOW]

I personally found DJ tiresome more than anything. A grotesque and unabashed supporter of ANTIFA and all things brutally left should be called out for sure. That being said I wouldn’t have banned him. I firmly stand by Skylar expressing his point of view as well; whether I agree or not. The unfortunate part about the challenges of Canada going forward is that many of the new Canadians are no more understanding or tolerant than Skylar or the people asking to ban him. New or established views are developed, ingrained and expressed by people no matter their background.


Edit: Thought I would check on DJ Forsberg on Twitter and see what he’s been up to: “ Account is suspended” Hilarious. Even with Elon’s free speech Twitter he finds a way to get banned.

[davequanbury]

Whether or not someone chooses to view that certain forumer's comments as racist, those comments do deserve to be countered because they are sadly misguided and narrow.

It is a mistake to look at a new immigrant or a refugee making a new life in Canada with the same lens as an Indigenous person. In many respects, the poverty experienced by refugees and new immigrants is far easier to overcome. Sometimes, the interruption in their lives (war, displacement) is one generation deep. This means that even though they have been displaced, traumatized, or impoverished, they have more resilience and resources to come back from those experiences. This often manifests in greater faith in institutions and optimism for the future.

In Canada, our Indigenous population has undergone multigenerational trauma, a disruption which has severed connections between generations going back through residential school and the terrible policies which were foisted upon them through the Indian Act. This is not some woke opinion, this is fact.

For someone to look around and decide that someone who is Indigenous has all the same tools to procure an education, enter the employment market, and lift themselves out of poverty as a newcomer from Ukraine does shows a great lack of understanding.