AUSTIN | Transportation Updates

[atxsnail]

Originally Posted by freerover

TLDR: Car brain is a choice. It's not an undeniable reality.

100%

There are some fascinating deep dives online about how various cities across Europe made the conscious decision to move away from car-centric cities. The results today look nearly unrecognizable from their 70s/80s versions but each one had to start somewhere. Yes, they started with better bones. But they still made the hard (and at times, unpopular) decisions to become more people-centered places.

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by Lobotomizer

Reality is there are less than a million people living in the city of Austin, with another 1.5 million living in the rest of the metro. Austin's share of the metro population will continue to decline. The surrounding area provide much of our labor force. They must be able to commute to work.

That's a bit of the tail wagging the dog. Austin's share of the metro population is declining _because_ we spend billions of dollars building highways and subsidizing people to live in the outer surrounding area.

[electricron]

Originally Posted by Novacek

So if the city is who is responsible, you agree the city should be able to say NO if TxDot wants to shove a highway through the middle of the city and condemn a bunch of property?

Yes, in principle if you own the right of way.
But that highway already exists, has had funding from the US and Texas governments, and is apart of the National Interstate Highway System. The City of Austin has funded zero dollars to it over the past 50+ years, but has benefit from it economically. The City does not own this right of way. TXDOT does.

The City has also given up ownership of the new light rail/streetcar system they desire to be built. The City is not going to fund it 100%. It's initial operating segments do not even reach the city limits. With half the citizens in the Austin metro living outside the city limits is it fair to limit opportunities of advancement to them by restricting I-35 without an equivalent capacity transit system? Not, it is not fair at all.

[Lobotomizer]

Originally Posted by Novacek

That's a bit of the tail wagging the dog. Austin's share of the metro population is declining _because_ we spend billions of dollars building highways and subsidizing people to live in the outer surrounding area.

In what reality could the city of Austin house 2.5 million residents in an urban environment served by high quality mass transit?

It sounds cool, but it is fantasy.

[Maximusx1]

Originally Posted by atxsnail

100%

There are some fascinating deep dives online about how various cities across Europe made the conscious decision to move away from car-centric cities. The results today look nearly unrecognizable from their 70s/80s versions but each one had to start somewhere. Yes, they started with better bones. But they still made the hard (and at times, unpopular) decisions to become more people-centered places.

This one of you?
https://x.com/YIMBYLAND/status/1892302587673583957

[Maximusx1]

Originally Posted by electricron

TXDOT is not in the business of urban planning.
Every city in Texas is responsible for urban planning, via zoning laws, including Austin.
But there is a limitation on how inner cities can increase their city limits where they can make zoning laws. Amongst them is the ability to quickly provide city services, sewer, water, fire, police, and sometimes electric power. If the City can't provide ALL the services in a certain period of time, they can't increase their city limits to include the new properties. If another city can, it does. That's how suburban cities grew. For a city to annex a suburban city, both cities must approve.
So, it is very difficult for inner cities to annex and zone new residential districts being built outside their city limits. But they can make zoning changes that would make it cheaper to rent or buy a home within the city limits than outside. Too bad Austin has amongst the highest rents in Texas, doing the opposite with residential properties.
So, get off TXDOT and aim your complaints at your own city council.

Very well said. Agreed and thank you.

[Maximusx1]

Originally Posted by zrx299

This attitude right here is exactly how you get 16 lane highways barreling through cities and towns. For starters, TXDOT needs to give up the obsession with frontage roads. No other state uses these the way Texas does, except in rare instances. Other places don't build "on" the highway. You get off at your exit and then go to the street grid, not 3 miles away from it and parallel the interstate on yet another 3-4 lane 'highway'. It doubles the whole width for no reason. Then we now have the next obsession by TXDOt which is the elevated tabletop HOV or toll lanes which will also do absolutely nothing except make Pulice (thats the Spanish construction firm, not "police") and other contractors a ton of money, along with everyone else involved with their hands out. Tax, spend, skim. Rinse & repeat.

The lobbying needs to stop. Traffic is traffic. The people who move to a certain place should have to deal with the traffic problems they helped cause instead of pointing fingers. That by itself would regulate growth instead of endless car-dependent sprawl.

Highways arent going anywhere in our lifetimes, but ffs can we stop the dystopian 1960s style designs bulldozing everything in their path with unnecessary width and 47 flyovers to everyone's individual street with something a bit more useful and less eye-gouging than "just 10 more lanes, bro!" ??

This response right here is why your side is losing everything. The entire concept of imposing your will because everyone else 'should have to' suffer is why you're losing. Keep it up and see what it gets you... more losing.

And you people love the 'one more lane bro' meme to make fun of highway expansion. But what is your plan? One less lane? Have you ever been in traffic and seriously thought one less lane is the answer to the problem in front of you? You just ignore the laws of fluid dynamics. That's why the poster above says your solutions don't exist in reality. They don't. Your solutions are memes. Grow up and join reality.

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by electricron

Yes, in principle if you own the right of way.
But that highway already exists, has had funding from the US and Texas governments, and is apart of the National Interstate Highway System. The City of Austin has funded zero dollars to it over the past 50+ years, but has benefit from it economically. The City does not own this right of way. TXDOT does.

But TxDot isn't just building in the existing RoW, they're massively expanding it, pushing out bunches of businesses and residents.

You just said it was only the city's responsibility to do planning, so they should be able to prevent that, right?

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by Lobotomizer

In what reality could the city of Austin house 2.5 million residents in an urban environment served by high quality mass transit?

It sounds cool, but it is fantasy.

Austin is already housing a million people in city limits. 2.5M would be easy.

Williamson and Bastrop aren't booming because it's physically impossible to house them in the city. They're booming because CoA taxpayers are massively subsidizing them to live there.

[MikeInNB]

Originally Posted by Novacek

Austin is already housing a million people in city limits. 2.5M would be easy.

Williamson and Bastrop aren't booming because it's physically impossible to house them in the city. They're booming because CoA taxpayers are massively subsidizing them to live there.

I wouldn't say it would be easy. One of the primary reasons people live in WilCo and Bastrop is space. If you have a family and all that that entails, where do you put everything? I'm empty nester now, but when we had kids, we had three cars, a bass boat, a two-man boat, two smokers, a crawfish boiler, swing sets, patios, a pool, and a shop for fixing all that shit. I seriously doubt the city of Austin could accomodate all those families and their stuff.

[papertowelroll]

Originally Posted by MikeInNB

I wouldn't say it would be easy. One of the primary reasons people live in WilCo and Bastrop is space. If you have a family and all that that entails, where do you put everything? I'm empty nester now, but when we had kids, we had three cars, a bass boat, a two-man boat, two smokers, a crawfish boiler, swing sets, patios, a pool, and a shop for fixing all that shit. I seriously doubt the city of Austin could accomodate all those families and their stuff.

Lol this is America right here. How could a family possibly live without a bass boat and 3 cars?

[Lobotomizer]

Originally Posted by MikeInNB

I wouldn't say it would be easy. One of the primary reasons people live in WilCo and Bastrop is space. If you have a family and all that that entails, where do you put everything? I'm empty nester now, but when we had kids, we had three cars, a bass boat, a two-man boat, two smokers, a crawfish boiler, swing sets, patios, a pool, and a shop for fixing all that shit. I seriously doubt the city of Austin could accomodate all those families and their stuff.

In this fantasy there are no children, and all of the items you mentioned would be unavailable to the proletariat masses.

[foreverrushing31]

That is not a proletariat lifestyle lol. My family's working class and the thought of having two boats, three different appliances for grilling food, an entire playground and a hut is wildly beyond us. Three cars, I can see that - but used. Also y'all are acting as if parks and small repair shops don't exist - to be fair the second can't, funnily enough because of zoning and licensing.

[ATX2030]

ATP wouldn't say which businesses would be pushed out by light-rail. So we found out.

KUT 90.5 | By Nathan Bernier
Published February 13, 2025 at 5:03 AM CST

https://www.kut.org/transportation/2025-02-13/atp-light-rail-austin-tx-displaced-businesses

TXDOT isn't the only entity displacing residences and businesses.

Full list of possible displacements identified by KUT News

Jiffy Lube 3809 Guadalupe St.
University Car Wash & Vehicle Inspections 3825 Guadalupe St.
Bohls Bearing 1125 Bastrop Hwy.
TRP Infrastructure Services 1127 Old Bastrop Hwy.
Jiffy Lube 1806 E Riverside Dr.
JD's Supermarket 6214 E Riverside Dr.
Airport Commerce Multifamily Apartments 1501 Airport Commerce Dr.
16.45 acre vacant lot 1300 Airport Commerce Dr.
El Tacorrido 1701 E Riverside Dr.
Tacos de Trompo and ACE Cash Express (Strip mall tract) 2237 E Riverside Dr.
Lumpy Clay LLC 500 W 38 St,
LD & BD Partners LLC 504 W 38 St,
Jen's Copy and Binding 2518 Guadalupe St,
Snag 2532 Guadalupe St,
Exxon 2819 Guadalupe St.
Kabobzi Mediterranean Grill and Phoenician Resto Cafe 2909 Guadalupe St.
Sip Pho 512 W 29 St.
Little Patagonia Empanadas & Café 2915 Guadalupe St.
Taco Shack 2825 Guadalupe St.
Out of the Closet 2927 Guadalupe St.
Salsa Limon 3001 Guadalupe St.
Groovy Lube 509 W 37 St.
Oribello's Bar and Kitchen 509 W 37 St.
My Cleaners and Alterations? 3106 Guadalupe St.
BCL of Texas 2212 S Congress Ave.
Toasty Badger 2206 S Congress Ave.
Teal House Coffee & Bakery 2304 S Congress Ave.
Soco Service Center 2300 S Congress Ave.
Thom's Market Riverside 150 E Riverside Dr.
Thundercloud Subs 201 E Riverside Dr.
Chase Bank 1811 S Congress Ave.
PNC Bank 2401 S Congress Ave.
Austin Smoke And Vape Shop 111 E Oltorf St,.
Waller Creek Boathouse 74 Trinity St.
7-Eleven 408 W 15 St.
Downtown Austin Motor Bank 306 W 9 St.
7-Eleven 411 West Mlk Jr. Blvd.
Shell 6301 E Riverside Dr,.
Discoteca 2000 6305 E Riverside Dr.
Residence 6307 E Riverside Dr,.
Residence 6309 E Riverside Dr.
Residence 6407 E Riverside Dr.
Cosentino 1340 Airport Commerce Dr., Suite 100.
CSC Service Works 1340 Airport Commerce Dr., Suite 125.
DH Pace 1340 Airport Commerce Dr., Suite 150.
Trillium 1340 Airport Commerce Dr., Suite 175.
Alterman 1340 Airport Commerce Dr., Suite #425.
Texas Parks and Wildlife 1340 Airport Commerce Dr., Suite 600A.
National Heating and Mobility 1340 Airport Commerce Dr., Suite 575.
Willbanks Teal 1340 Airport Commerce Dr., Suite 550.
Department of Family and Protective Services 1340 Airport Commerce Dr., Suite 525.
AMD 1340 Airport Commerce Dr., Suite 500.
Alterman 1340 Airport Commerce Dr., Suite 425.
ACMI Federal 1340 Airport Commerce Dr., Suite 450.
Climatec 1340 Airport Commerce Dr., Suite 480.
IAA 1340 Airport Commerce Dr., Suite 490.
FedEx Office 1340 Airport Commerce Dr., Suite 375.
Interior Logic Group 1340 Airport Commerce Dr., Suite 360.
PharMerica 1340 Airport Commerce Dr., Suite 350.
Kyle Bunting 1340 Airport Commerce Dr., Suite 300.
Zoox 1340 Airport Commerce Dr., Suite 200.
Abu Omar 2819 Guadalupe St.

[Lobotomizer]

Originally Posted by Novacek

But TxDot isn't just building in the existing RoW, they're massively expanding it, pushing out bunches of businesses and residents.

You just said it was only the city's responsibility to do planning, so they should be able to prevent that, right?

Originally Posted by ATX2030

ATP wouldn't say which businesses would be pushed out by light-rail. So we found out.

KUT 90.5 | By Nathan Bernier
Published February 13, 2025 at 5:03 AM CST

https://www.kut.org/transportation/2025-02-13/atp-light-rail-austin-tx-displaced-businesses

TXDOT isn't the only entity displacing residences and businesses.

Full list of possible displacements identified by KUT News

Jiffy Lube 3809 Guadalupe St.
University Car Wash & Vehicle Inspections 3825 Guadalupe St.
Bohls Bearing 1125 Bastrop Hwy.
TRP Infrastructure Services 1127 Old Bastrop Hwy.
Jiffy Lube 1806 E Riverside Dr.
JD's Supermarket 6214 E Riverside Dr.
Airport Commerce Multifamily Apartments 1501 Airport Commerce Dr.
16.45 acre vacant lot 1300 Airport Commerce Dr.
El Tacorrido 1701 E Riverside Dr.
Tacos de Trompo and ACE Cash Express (Strip mall tract) 2237 E Riverside Dr.
Lumpy Clay LLC 500 W 38 St,
LD & BD Partners LLC 504 W 38 St,
Jen's Copy and Binding 2518 Guadalupe St,
Snag 2532 Guadalupe St,
Exxon 2819 Guadalupe St.
Kabobzi Mediterranean Grill and Phoenician Resto Cafe 2909 Guadalupe St.
Sip Pho 512 W 29 St.
Little Patagonia Empanadas & Café 2915 Guadalupe St.
Taco Shack 2825 Guadalupe St.
Out of the Closet 2927 Guadalupe St.
Salsa Limon 3001 Guadalupe St.
Groovy Lube 509 W 37 St.
Oribello's Bar and Kitchen 509 W 37 St.
My Cleaners and Alterations? 3106 Guadalupe St.
BCL of Texas 2212 S Congress Ave.
Toasty Badger 2206 S Congress Ave.
Teal House Coffee & Bakery 2304 S Congress Ave.
Soco Service Center 2300 S Congress Ave.
Thom's Market Riverside 150 E Riverside Dr.
Thundercloud Subs 201 E Riverside Dr.
Chase Bank 1811 S Congress Ave.
PNC Bank 2401 S Congress Ave.
Austin Smoke And Vape Shop 111 E Oltorf St,.
Waller Creek Boathouse 74 Trinity St.
7-Eleven 408 W 15 St.
Downtown Austin Motor Bank 306 W 9 St.
7-Eleven 411 West Mlk Jr. Blvd.
Shell 6301 E Riverside Dr,.
Discoteca 2000 6305 E Riverside Dr.
Residence 6307 E Riverside Dr,.
Residence 6309 E Riverside Dr.
Residence 6407 E Riverside Dr.
Cosentino 1340 Airport Commerce Dr., Suite 100.
CSC Service Works 1340 Airport Commerce Dr., Suite 125.
DH Pace 1340 Airport Commerce Dr., Suite 150.
Trillium 1340 Airport Commerce Dr., Suite 175.
Alterman 1340 Airport Commerce Dr., Suite #425.
Texas Parks and Wildlife 1340 Airport Commerce Dr., Suite 600A.
National Heating and Mobility 1340 Airport Commerce Dr., Suite 575.
Willbanks Teal 1340 Airport Commerce Dr., Suite 550.
Department of Family and Protective Services 1340 Airport Commerce Dr., Suite 525.
AMD 1340 Airport Commerce Dr., Suite 500.
Alterman 1340 Airport Commerce Dr., Suite 425.
ACMI Federal 1340 Airport Commerce Dr., Suite 450.
Climatec 1340 Airport Commerce Dr., Suite 480.
IAA 1340 Airport Commerce Dr., Suite 490.
FedEx Office 1340 Airport Commerce Dr., Suite 375.
Interior Logic Group 1340 Airport Commerce Dr., Suite 360.
PharMerica 1340 Airport Commerce Dr., Suite 350.
Kyle Bunting 1340 Airport Commerce Dr., Suite 300.
Zoox 1340 Airport Commerce Dr., Suite 200.
Abu Omar 2819 Guadalupe St.

Wow, it looks like they're going to bulldoze Austin to build Project Connect.

Just one more rail line, bro! Just give us $10 billion more dollars, bro!

Isn't building all this rail going to just create induced demand? Then the rail bros will want to just keep adding more and more. Next thing you know they'll be knocking down the Capitol.

[chinchaaa]

Originally Posted by Lobotomizer

Wow, it looks like they're going to bulldoze Austin to build Project Connect.

Just one more rail line, bro! Just give us $10 billion more dollars, bro!

Isn't building all this rail going to just create induced demand? Then the rail bros will want to just keep adding more and more. Next thing you know they'll be knocking down the Capitol.

Wow, good one. Anyways…

[freerover]

Originally Posted by Lobotomizer

Wow, it looks like they're going to bulldoze Austin to build Project Connect.

Just one more rail line, bro! Just give us $10 billion more dollars, bro!

Isn't building all this rail going to just create induced demand? Then the rail bros will want to just keep adding more and more. Next thing you know they'll be knocking down the Capitol.

lol. Are you 12? When you need more capacity for a train, you run a longer train or more trains. You don't need to make the track ROW 4 times wider. You understand that right? You understand that we don't need to widen train tracks to increase capacity? It's not complicated. It's literally the opposite of a highway which requires widening to increase capacity.


And this is a very bad retort to what happens once this highway widening fills up. Since you aren't pretending to not see it anymore, care to explain how we widen 35 again after this? How does this way of thinking scale? What happens when all these extra cars hit current city streets?


Just curious, which one of those businesses do your frequent?

Originally Posted by chinchaaa

Wow, good one. Anyways…

It's car brain, man. Must Car! Only Car! Car Car Car! I love traffic! I love sitting in traffic! More Car! One.... More.... Lane........................bro.

[zrx299]

Originally Posted by Maximusx1

This response right here is why your side is losing everything. The entire concept of imposing your will because everyone else 'should have to' suffer is why you're losing. Keep it up and see what it gets you... more losing.

And you people love the 'one more lane bro' meme to make fun of highway expansion. But what is your plan? One less lane? Have you ever been in traffic and seriously thought one less lane is the answer to the problem in front of you? You just ignore the laws of fluid dynamics. That's why the poster above says your solutions don't exist in reality. They don't. Your solutions are memes. Grow up and join reality.

"Grow up" ? GFY. Thanks for exposing yourself as someone incapable of intelligent discussion. Your sense of entitlement is palpable and putrid.

Did the Katy freeway fix Houston's traffic? No?
Guess it should've been 38 lanes instead of 26. That would've done it, right?

Funny how we don't treat giant highways with the same regard as other options, rail/bus/whatever, which apparently have to be wildly successful self-sustaining businesses to ever be considered.

Has any non-tolled highway turned a profit yet, or must they continue to be heavily subsidized year after year?

[Lobotomizer]

If a rail line is was bursting at the seams with passengers, and needing an expansion of service it would be considered a success.

How many miles of rail has DART up in Dallas built? Isn't it the most extensive light rail system in the US? How many billions of dollars have been spent? And how many people ride those trains?

Hundreds of thousands of cars cross the Colorado River on I-35 every single day. Spending $4.5 billion to upgrade it is reasonable.

Compare that to Project Connect's price tag of $7 billion. How many people do you think will cross the Colorado River on the train every day?

I-35 expansion is a much better use of taxpayer dollars if you look at it logically. That's not to say Project Connect is not a worthy endeavor, but it will never carry as many passengers as I-35. When considering that it will cost billions of more dollars to build, it is not the obvious choice if you had to choose.

Of course we can do both, and I believe that's a great thing. Having the option to utilize whichever makes the most sense for each person depending on the circumstances is how things should operate.

[atxsnail]

Originally Posted by Lobotomizer

If a rail line is was bursting at the seams with passengers, and needing an expansion of service it would be considered a success.

How many miles of rail has DART up in Dallas built? Isn't it the most extensive light rail system in the US? How many billions of dollars have been spent? And how many people ride those trains?

DART is a good example of how to build a crappy network. They build it to maximize track miles searching for suburban commuters. It was built on the cheap and used existing freight ROW for a good portion. As a result, the network looks nice on a map but stations are not in useful locations and is hamstrung by some of the worst station-area land use in the country. It really just seems like a series of park and rides connected by train, aside from a few poorly placed stations downtown. Denver is another similar example of a rail system designed from a suburban mindset.

Austin's system, when including the priority expansions, serves a lot of very important areas and is a good design by comparison. It does really and truly suck that rising costs have had such a negative impact on the design. Even still, this service on day 1 would be better than everything else in Texas except maybe the Houston Red Line. And after expansion, it would be the best system outside of the Eastern Seaboard/Pacific Northwest.