Winnipeg Construction X

[cheswick]

Originally Posted by Biff

^Will involve one of those tall steel things that look like a "t" and spins around and around.

It's more of a Y, but this is exciting for downtown.

[Sheepish]

Story on CBC re investment in AC Park. A 'resident' quoted that people are like a family there and are respectful of the space. She wants more flowers and the fountain turned back on.
This is insanity. The park was not created for this purpose; it is a public amenity, not a campsite. Same for bus shelters and other open spaces.
Commit to safe, respectful housing.

[drew]

They were cleaning the AC park this morning. Under the watchful eye of at least 6 uniform police officers. Perfectly normal.

[Sheepish]

Virtually every monday there is a cleaning crew...

[drew]

The comment was more about the need to have police officers to ensure the safety of the cleaners was more of what I was getting at.

[Sheepish]

Gotcha! It is all very troubling, and is being allowed to persist to the point that no one else will want to (or be able to) use these spaces. And it's only a matter of time before we are talking about The Forks. And Memorial Park. And Vimy Ridge Park...

[Wpg_Guy]

Future Design Intent for Air Canada Park

[drew]

Originally Posted by Sheepish

Gotcha! It is all very troubling, and is being allowed to persist to the point that no one else will want to (or be able to) use these spaces. And it's only a matter of time before we are talking about The Forks. And Memorial Park. And Vimy Ridge Park...

It's already at Vimy Ridge Park.

I live very close to there and every time we get a few tenters in the park, there is a spike in property crimes within the one or two block radius (as per the regular update on our block's email chain and the local Facebook page).

They usually last up to a week until enough people complain that the authorities come and "clean-up".

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by Wpg_Guy

Future Design Intent for Air Canada Park

Thanks. I didn't realize the City owns the park.

[esquire]

I live not too far from St. Vital Park and there were tenters in there the last couple of summers. Haven't spent as much time on the trails so far this year so I don't know what the current situation is, but I'd expect it to be similar.

There are also people residing off-and-on along Bishop Grandin in the interchange loops at Pembina, around the bridges/overpasses and along the Greenway. So it is by no means strictly an "inner city" phenomenon anymore.

[trueviking]

something that blew my mind when I was in Spain a couple weeks ago....they are a country with a struggling economy and are far less wealthy than Canada, but in Barcelona and Madrid, two gigantic cities, there was almost no sign of visible poverty or homelessness.....every bus shelter was for people riding the bus, there were open and unattended public washrooms everywhere, no tents in the parks......what are they doing that we are not?

[esquire]

Good question. In other countries, particularly those that are still developing, people can be not wealthy but still be a part of society. There might be the Chinese street-sweeper with a broom sweeping sidewalks all day for the equivalent of $125 Canadian a week. But they still manage to keep it together and live a dignified if humble life.

Somehow in Canada though, a rather large number of people on the margins of society seem to be unable to resist the lure of drugs, end up with addictions and get all the havoc that entails. If that Chinese street sweeper lived in Winnipeg, he'd end up becoming a meth addict and wind up in jail after stabbing someone on a bus.

[Winnipegger]

Originally Posted by trueviking

something that blew my mind when I was in Spain a couple weeks ago....they are a country with a struggling economy and are far less wealthy than Canada, but in Barcelona and Madrid, two gigantic cities, there was almost no sign of visible poverty or homelessness.....every bus shelter was for people riding the bus, there were open and unattended public washrooms everywhere, no tents in the parks......what are they doing that we are not?

I'm pretty sure Spain, like many other European countries, trialed a "Housing First" policy that provided a treatment group of unhoused individuals with free housing - regardless of background or employment status - provided they accepted a variety of policy interventions. Like many other countries, Spain found it was a very successful program in providing better mental and physical outcomes for the treatment group relative to the control group. So I think Spain pursued a Housing First model to address homelessness, which would be why you didn't see much of it during your travels. More details can be read here.

And to esquire's point, a lot of the people in the trail run who were provided with housing did have substance abuse issues - Winnipeg isn't isolated in that instance. Yet it still provided better outcomes for them.

I think what is missing is a national approach, and one that absolutely needs to be led by the Federal government. Maybe it's not federal responsibility, but it's an issue that each city faces and it's not something that can be solved by the municipal government. The housing first approach is a hard sell to North American conservative governments because it goes against most of what they stand for: giving something free to people who may or may not be employed. It's hard to convince conservatives to pay taxes to give housing to someone who doesn't want to work and instead do drugs, yet the dividends to society (and the unhoused person) are quite clear in the literature. It would be a big investment (have to build safe and effective housing and staff it with people who can assist). It also needs to be coupled with a stronger justice system in my view. Can't just have violent criminals out after doing 2 years, who are prone to reoffend, living in these places and ruining outcomes for everyone else.

And in Winnipeg especially it could be difficult to implement, with the high concentration of poverty and addictions right near our inner city. You can't just create some megaproject with 4,000 dwelling units for unhoused people at Higgins and Main, you're just going to make the problem worse. There needs to be some sort of better housing system then what we've got for homeless, but the answers aren't easy.

[Sheepish]

First, to be fair, the situation is pretty bad in most American Cities as well. My question...why spend this money fixing a park to make it more 'usable' when the problem is not the space but those who are living in it? My theory...doing the retrofit closes the space off. That means people will have to find somewhere else to go - and their hope is by the time it re-opens these folks will have moved along. Spend the money on housing and detox. But it is remarkable given our low unemployment that we are facing this crisis.

[Winnipegger]

Originally Posted by Sheepish

Spend the money on housing and detox. But it is remarkable given our low unemployment that we are facing this crisis.

There are plenty of decent jobs available in this economy if you want one. But I'm rather certain that the majority of unhoused people aren't unhoused because they simply can't find work. I'm no expert on the topic, but I suspect that unhoused populations are that way either because it is the only lifestyle that enables them to continue their substance abuse habits, or a series of cataclysmic life events have left them in a place with absolutely no resources, experience, or knowledge to draw from that would enable them to live a normal life without massive support that the system currently lacks.

Not saying every unhoused person is a drug addict by any means, but rather most unhoused people are several life-changing steps away from holding enough employment to be able to afford regular housing. It's not really a "the economy is bad" type of problem. It's more social and individual than that I think.

[Sheepish]

I fully get that the issue is not unemployment but employability. The fact that homelessness is so critical at this point says more about the breakdown in our social structures.
People have jobs, but wages don't pay the bills. Addictions. Family breakdown. Inflation. High interest rates...and of course the after affects of Covid.

[thebasketballgeek]

Imo this is also a symptom of the family dynamics in North America. It seems that the individualistic line of thinking can either push someone to greater heights of success, but at the same time make those in the bottom feel the effects much more.

Most family structures in the world maintain the belief that family comes first and if someone is in a rough spot they’ll be provided a helping hand whether it be your sister, parents, or even first cousins. It’s also toxic in a sense that if for example I was to be sleeping on the streets it would bring a great amount of shame to my family.

I just don’t see that same level of cooperation between families here where they send their parents to a nursing home once they grow sick of them. When you enforce and assimilate that individualistic mindset on a group of people that have been living in nomadic large communities for thousands of years there will be hiccups.

Of course these are very very broad generalizations, but it’s something I noticed coming from a person who experiences both type of cultures.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Thanks. I didn't realize the City owns the park.

So it actually was a park at one time?

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by Winnipegger

There are plenty of decent jobs available in this economy if you want one. But I'm rather certain that the majority of unhoused people aren't unhoused because they simply can't find work. I'm no expert on the topic, but I suspect that unhoused populations are that way either because it is the only lifestyle that enables them to continue their substance abuse habits, or a series of cataclysmic life events have left them in a place with absolutely no resources, experience, or knowledge to draw from that would enable them to live a normal life without massive support that the system currently lacks.

Not saying every unhoused person is a drug addict by any means, but rather most unhoused people are several life-changing steps away from holding enough employment to be able to afford regular housing. It's not really a "the economy is bad" type of problem. It's more social and individual than that I think.

When I see new Canadians be they immigrants, refugees, those displaced from war torn countries etc. they all come here and seem to find work and are willing to work and then there is another group who feel they are owed and won’t work and are a drain on society….

[pspeid]

IMO great comments by Winnipegger, Sheepish and thebasketballgeek. Here's a link to a page that discusses all those issues, and how complicated the issue of homelessness can be:

https://www.homelesshub.ca/about-hom...s-homelessness