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Posted Jul 2, 2015, 2:44 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 11,595
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milomilo
I don't understand - London's system (and I guess all the others) has been doing this perfectly (along with far more) for over a decade? In fact Oyster is now actually becoming obsolete and being replaced by contactless credit/debit cards. You're not even allowed to use cash on the buses - it's awesome.
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It can be done sure! But Calgary Transit has to not put new features in the system. Also, to license existing solutions you likely would have to pay a % fee to the operator forever.
Now, that might not be that bad if you had a mostly cash based system, or if selling monthly passes had massive overhead, but I bet Calgary Transit's existing cost of sales is really low.
On fees:
Quote:
Open-fare' technology proposed for TTC not fully embraced in U.S.
Lorinc, John. The Globe and Mail [Toronto, Ont] 28 July 2010: A.9.
Officials with Mastercard International declined to specify what kind of ongoing "interchange" fees would be charged to participating transit agencies.
"We're very confident that the benefit to riders, [bank] issuers and transit will greatly outweigh any associated cost," says Cathleen Conforti, senior vice-president for Mastercard's global pay pass solutions.
Mastercard's published merchant interchange rate schedule indicates that it charges U.S. commuter or passenger rail agencies 1.5 per cent plus 10 cents per transaction. For a $3 adult ticket on the TTC, that rate structure works out to be just over 10 cents, or about 3.4 per cent on top of the regular fare price.
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Look at Utah implementing Open payments:
Quote:
TTC considers credit card fare payment: Open payment allows riders to tap a reader and have their ticket added to a monthly bill
Kalinowski, Tess. Toronto Star 20 Apr 2010
...
"Initially there were some problems with credit card charges not going through. But we didn't have a huge saturation of cards in the market so the number of transactions was pretty small," he said.
The UTA, which handles 38 million rides a year, is working on a vending agreement to allow tourists and occasional riders to buy a card from a machine in the transit station rather than fumbling for change.
"It means UTA does not have to issue the media. We don't have to maintain the credit machines, we don't have to support the card by the vendor," Carpenter explained. "All we have to do is make sure our system is working itself."
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Some info on potential differences:
Quote:
Comparing transit payment systems
Kalinowski, Tess; Rider, David. Toronto Star [Toronto, Ont] 27 July 2010
As the province and the city dispute whether Presto or "open payment" systems would be better for TTC riders, we asked some experts to weigh in on the crucial questions.
Q. Why didn't the province adopt the kind of open payment fare system the TTC is considering, which will allow riders to tap their credit card or cellphone on a reader to have their fare added to a monthly bill?
A. Ontario has talked to U.S. transit authorities that are piloting open payment systems. But there's no complete business case showing the cost implications, said David Smith, director of program services for Presto.
No one knows what the impact will be of adding transit fares to monthly credit card bills or debit transactions, said Smith. Although many transit providers, including GO, already allow riders to pay for passes and tickets using credit and debit cards, the government has to be concerned with the cost to Ontarians.
"New York has been in a pilot since 2006 and still there's no firm time for them to roll out an open payment. They've not in any way been able to articulate a cost. Currently, Mastercard is funding all of it," said Smith.
Presto, on the other hand, is ready to go, with known costs.
"We think we have a business case that one doesn't see yet with the TTC proposal. Everybody is an Ontario taxpayer, including residents of Toronto, and we want something we can move forward with."
Q. What kind of revenue would the TTC pay to an open payment fare system provider?
A. TTC officials won't talk about it because doing so could influence the request for proposals, said chair Adam Giambrone.
"I can tell you there is a substantial cost savings potential from what transit agencies have to pay right now," said Paul Korczak, the consultant the TTC has hired to help develop an open payment system,
"If you're building a custom-built system it becomes very expensive. If you can shed some of those costs, like the card production cost, the distribution cost, you can simplify the technology, you can share in the knowledge and development of new technologies, your costs are going to be reduced."
The province has a $250 million contract with Accenture to develop and operate Presto by 2016. That includes the design, software, devices and testing. Individual transit systems will have to pay for the devices on buses and station platforms, according to Smith.
Presto officials have estimated those costs for the TTC would be about $320 million, including devices, upgrades to infrastructure, wiring, project management, devices and central system changes.
A November 2009 TTC report suggested that would be cheaper than the $490 million estimated cost of creating and operating its own electronic payment system.
While credit and debit card readers like those used on store counters would be cheaper than the $4,000 Presto models, they probably wouldn't stand up as well to weather and vandalism, Smith said.
Q. How does open payment work compared with Presto?
Presto users have to load dollar value onto their Presto card. With open payment, the fare is simply added to the rider's regular credit card bill.
Both kinds of cards need only be tapped on an electronic reader.
Smith says credit card users in the New York pilot get a green light on the reader when they tap. Presto readers, however, give a green light, emit a tone, show the amount deducted from the user's e-purse and the balance remaining on the card.
Presto also has more security features, he said.
Whichever system is used, the transit agency has to maintain an alternative for riders who don't want or qualify for a credit card.
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