Winnipeg | St Boniface | Development

[bomberjet]

If the rail yard was moved out of the north end. They'd need to come back with mostly grid streets to connect the areas. If it ended up just being something like this, that'd be terrible. The biggest thing in the north end is the disconnected nature of having only a couple crossings and they're bridges.

Maybe a small, small part of it with a central square. But with shops and apartments like a european square.

[plrh]

Originally Posted by esquire

This happens any time there is a large parcel of land on the market to be developed. It always ends up being wasted with the usual low density, meandering roads, huge parking lots crap. This is why I am not in favour of railyard relocation, it would end up being the same thing but on an even bigger scale.

There is a strong inverse correlation between overall development quality and land parcel size, at least in this city. The bigger the site, generally speaking, the worse the project will be.

I agree. It's the same with the sugar beet land development and Kapyong.

[T'Cona]

Originally Posted by esquire

This happens any time there is a large parcel of land on the market to be developed. It always ends up being wasted with the usual low density, meandering roads, huge parking lots crap. This is why I am not in favour of railyard relocation, it would end up being the same thing but on an even bigger scale.

There is a strong inverse correlation between overall development quality and land parcel size, at least in this city. The bigger the site, generally speaking, the worse the project will be.

This is where the city needs to push back, and ask them to come up with a better plan.

There is an opportunity here to achieve something greater. Want to attract a great mix of people, and create a unique neighborhood? Why not develop this to be similar to Nordhavn in Copenhagen? That, to me, would be very cool.

[bomberjet]

Whatever they're proposing meets the city standards. The City needs to change that is the ultimate problem.

The City is pushing back on the TOD thing at Fulton Grove to get them to build something to a higher standard. Even though it's still not the greatest again.

[WildCake]

Originally Posted by T'Cona

This is where the city needs to push back, and ask them to come up with a better plan.

There is an opportunity here to achieve something greater. Want to attract a great mix of people, and create a unique neighborhood? Why not develop this to be similar to Nordhavn in Copenhagen? That, to me, would be very cool.

Mostly philosophical, but does the city have the clout and land value like Copenhagen to push in that level of investment? Probably not.

If Winnipeg had the land value of Toronto or any major urban centre, that site would have been transformed the week after the Packers building came down. Yet much like Fulton Grove, and Sugar Beets, these spots are finally being developed because our land values finally hit a point that developers will pay for the cost of rehabbing the ground from industrial use to residential.

Yes I hate the seas of parking lots but I can imagine that it's what the developers will make money from. Forcing more density with more underground parking will send that developer money to a greenfield and those parcels will sit generating peanuts in tax revenue for decades to come.

If someone want to build tall and dense I rather that money be spent on our many downtown surface lots.

[T'Cona]

I do not think it is far fetched pitching something like that.

[peg]

Originally Posted by T'Cona

I do not think it is far-fetched pitching something like that.

I agree. This is a major investment in the city, close to downtown, and should not be half-assed.

This is doable, but it goes back to the lack of vision, in both our government and developers. Quick profits are sadly valued more important than placemaking and good urban design.

I hope that this one can be massaged into something more forward-thinking.

[zalf]

Has this gone to any committees yet?

[cllew]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

They are both the same. On the packers land. CP owns part of it, CN owns part of it. It used to be a private company who owned the big lot and operated the facility. CN purchased them a few years back. So I think the only thing CP owns is part of the track.

The Paddington interchange yard is owned by CP I believe. And CN comes in as required.

Actually its in reverse. Paddington yard is CN owned (end of the Sprague Subdivision) and its the Manitoba interchange point for CP and CN rail traffic for Manitoba. CP feeds it off their Emerson Subdivision.

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by zalf

Has this gone to any committees yet?

I'm pretty sure this has been approved by Council and they're starting work this year.

Originally Posted by cllew

Actually its in reverse. Paddington yard is CN owned (end of the Sprague Subdivision) and its the Manitoba interchange point for CP and CN rail traffic for Manitoba. CP feeds it off their Emerson Subdivision.

Ah thank you. I should know that. Don't tell my boss haha

[wags_in_the_peg]

This has been in the works for years guys, it's gone through numerous reviews at committe and community. As someone who grew up nearby and still lives fairly close, I would have no interest in living there. It's very very industrial on all 4 sides.

[bomberjet]

Theres an asphalt plant across marion. That huge explosion happened same place. The rail yard, autoport. Etc. Not the best place to be. Theres a Tim's though haha

[1ajs]

its industrial lets keep it industrial

[biguc]

Good point. Wasn't the city complaining that it was running out of serviced industrial lots recently?

[cllew]

Originally Posted by 1ajs

its industrial lets keep it industrial

People in the Archwood /Norwood East areas were complaining about all the heavy industrial in the area and wanted it converted into residential.

Looking at the online zoning maps that land shows as zoning M1-M3 so all sorts of stuff could have gone in there

[esquire]

Originally Posted by biguc

Good point. Wasn't the city complaining that it was running out of serviced industrial lots recently?

I was thinking the same thing. I can only imagine that the planned uses were more profitable.

I can appreciate that the nearby residents wouldn't necessarily want heavy industry nearby, but the usual type of new industrial park stuff in Winnipeg is usually light industry with lots of warehouses, distribution centres and whatnot, not noisy/smelly manufacturing. So not exactly the kind of stuff that is totally incompatible with residential areas nearby.

[cllew]

Originally Posted by esquire

I was thinking the same thing. I can only imagine that the planned uses were more profitable.

I can appreciate that the nearby residents wouldn't necessarily want heavy industry nearby, but the usual type of new industrial park stuff in Winnipeg is usually light industry with lots of warehouses, distribution centres and whatnot, not noisy/smelly manufacturing. So not exactly the kind of stuff that is totally incompatible with residential areas nearby.

Even with light industry, there is still all the traffic coming and going for the residents to be unhappy with.

I can see a neighborhood spokesperson saying "think of the children with all those courier and container trucks going down Marion or Archibald to the new industrial area"

[bomberjet]

I mean, the City has a shitload of industrial land available at CentrePort and other locations. If they were really interested in the subject, theyd put some policies in place to leverage that land.

But they worked very diligently for numeours years with the developer at the packers site to come up with this plan, according to the documents.

CentrePort within the City will be similar to this plan. Residential near the existing residential. With industry buffered by public reserve. They must have surplus land at CentrePort if they plan on using a large area for residential.

[T'Cona]

I would rather have people living here, and industrial businesses at the outskirts of the city.

[esquire]

Renderings of the new, expanded St. Boniface Hospital Emergency Department were released at last week's announcement.

It's pretty good on the whole, design-wise it's a step up from the good-not-great entrance area that was built on the north side a while back. It does a good job of filling in the gap between the existing hospital and Tache, and it provides a bit more of a visual anchor than the existing little mousehole of an entrance. It should improve the Tache streetscape in general. On the whole it looks like a positive step forward, both in terms of meeting the needs of patients and in terms of overall design.

Of course, it will make St. B look even busier and more jumbled, but that is kind of the signature aesthetic of our two major hospitals.