Arbutus: Greenway & Future Streetcar | Proposed

[MIPS]

I say leave it for another 25 years as that that part of town has almost fully developed and can only increase in sheer density at this point. As repeatedly stated the line is far too close to the Canada line to currently be a viable relief line and if you convert it to a bike/pedestrian path you doom it to that use forever.

Meanwhile CP can do their thing, the yokels can cry a river and the city can eat s**t.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Wasn't that the problem though? CP by way of action if not words, is "abandoning" the line, which requires they offer it to the municipal government at salvage value, as per the Federal Railway Act.

It's a problem for CP because they want as much money as possible for the line, and they'd like to get it sooner rather than later. It's less of a problem for Vancouver because they can just sit and wait for as long as it takes. Sure, if they can force a sale through the Railway Act then more power to them. But I think that tack was more of a counter-gambit to CP's bullying tactics than anything else. I get the sense that they're just as willing to wait CP out.

[urbancanadian]

Do you think they re-start repair work as we get closer to the next election? Or by that point is their strategy too transparent to work?

I have to say, so far this has played out exactly as I imagined it would. But now I'm not so sure where it all goes from here.

[swimmer_spe]

I don't see what is wrong with them using it to store cars. As long as they follow the law, who cares. Right now, there is no need for the city to jump on it. Besides, it isnt going anywhere.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by urbancanadian

Do you think they re-start repair work as we get closer to the next election? Or by that point is their strategy too transparent to work?

Well IMHO their strategy has always been too transparent to work. But if they sit around until the next election before starting to make the same threats again then even a blind man would be able to see it.

[urbancanadian]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Well IMHO their strategy has always been too transparent to work. But if they sit around until the next election before starting to make the same threats again then even a blind man would be able to see it.

Yeah. I don't think they have many options then. Maybe they will try to make it just enough of an election issue to get the NPA to publically promise to buy it from then. And then hope they win, and pressure them to uphold their election promise.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by urbancanadian

Yeah. I don't think they have many options then. Maybe they will try to make it just enough of an election issue to get the NPA to publically promise to buy it from then. And then hope they win, and pressure them to uphold their election promise.

I really don't see how announcing that they're going to spend $200 million (or whatever CP would be happy with) of public money on the line would be a winning strategy for the NPA. Maybe if it were combined with some pretty onerous uses of the line on CP's part, but that could so easily backfire on both of them.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

I don't see what is wrong with them using it to store cars. As long as they follow the law, who cares. Right now, there is no need for the city to jump on it. Besides, it isnt going anywhere.

Yes, exactly. But the reality is there's no business need to store cars there, it was a bluff to try and get the COV to pay top dollar for the line.

The bottom line is, nobody needs this piece of land. It won't be used for LRT-style transit any time soon, and CP no longer needs it as a part of their network.

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

I still do not see the benefit of this corridor for transit. It is too close to the Canada Line.

Three words: Transit Oriented Development.

Transit in Vancouver isn't just about moving people who already have places to live, it's also about giving people better places to live. And Kerrisdale already has a good head start on density (and some projects are happening elsewhere on the Corridor). The 16 bus is already heavily used, and it is slow as hell. And with properties in the area starting to go for over $3 million for a crappy war era bungalow, eventually selling density will be the only way the market can be sustainable.

And Cambie isn't that close to Arbutus. Kerrisdale is a good 3km away from Oakridge. Compare that to Expo/Millennium: Joyce is about 3km away from Rupert.

Or look at Toronto where they have built a thriving downtown core around a U shaped subway with multiple feeder streetcar lines. Or in Central Montreal, you are never far from either the Orange, Green, or Blue line (Orange and Green run parallel almost a couple blocks from each other, and the Blue line gets as close as about 4km to the Green).

Great cities are built on dense transit networks.

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Do you envision an eventual Arbutus Line as rrt (metro) or lrt (light rail)?

I think LRT, but using streetcar technology (like Flexity and not typical North American huge light rail cars) because at some points it might mix with traffic if the network is expanded.

The preserved ROW can make this a very cheap implementation of LRT/Streetcars. You could probably build from Science World to Marpole for well under $300 million (if the land is cheap).

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Why not leave it in CP's hands?
They keep maintaining the ROW. They keep landowners from encroaching. Taxes are collected from them(if they pay taxes on ROW)

When it comes time, then the city can go for it.

Because leaving it in the hands of CP is the problem. They don't want it in their hands and they are doing everything possible to be allowed to subdivide it and sell it in pieces on the open real estate market at market rates (probably by selling large portions of it to a new company that the CP execs have shares in, then develop it and keep the profits out of regular CP shareholders pockets).

If Vancouver ignores the possibility of buying it when it comes up, then legally, they would be allowed to sell it. In fact, the thing keeping them from doing that right now is the zoning, as anyone who buys the land would be unable to do anything on it. But that stalemate can only last so long until they annoy city residents enough to force council to change zoning, or find the right buyer who has the mayor in his pocket.

[AMTDGT]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

Three words: Transit Oriented Development.

Transit in Vancouver isn't just about moving people who already have places to live, it's also about giving people better places to live. And Kerrisdale already has a good head start on density (and some projects are happening elsewhere on the Corridor). The 16 bus is already heavily used, and it is slow as hell. And with properties in the area starting to go for over $3 million for a crappy war era bungalow, eventually selling density will be the only way the market can be sustainable.

And Cambie isn't that close to Arbutus. Kerrisdale is a good 3km away from Oakridge. Compare that to Expo/Millennium: Joyce is about 3km away from Rupert.

If Vancouver ignores the possibility of buying it when it comes up, then legally, they would be allowed to sell it. In fact, the thing keeping them from doing that right now is the zoning, as anyone who buys the land would be unable to do anything on it. But that stalemate can only last so long until they annoy city residents enough to force council to change zoning, or find the right buyer who has the mayor in his pocket.

Its probably the dinner wine talking, but how about this deal.

1. CP commits to building a sky train tunnel under their r of w - Broadway to the Fraser Arms. (yes Y the UBC extension for now - in future extend South or East and North to waterfront) and an aerial easement to the C line Marine Drive Station (if they own the property).
2. Moon Beam gives CP a residential development permit as long as there is a continuous green way/walking/bike path the total length of the r of w, of course charging normal development fees.

Advantages

1. Takes C Line UBC students of at Marine reducing the pax pressure at City Hall
2. Puts Arbutus folks (existing and CP development) on transit
3. Builds a major necessary piece of a future White Rock (etc) to water front line
4. Ties up a major transportation route that will be required albeit maybe not for 50 years
5. The development of the CP r of w brings in tax revenue to the COV that will be need to do important things after we get rid of Moon Bean and his tribe,,,,sorry did I get political. Must be the wine talking.

[WarrenC12]

Great post on the current state of the Arbutus Corridor:

https://stephenrees.wordpress.com/20...own-this-sign/

[casper]

Originally Posted by AMTDGT

Its probably the dinner wine talking, but how about this deal.

1. CP commits to building a sky train tunnel under their r of w - Broadway to the Fraser Arms. (yes Y the UBC extension for now - in future extend South or East and North to waterfront) and an aerial easement to the C line Marine Drive Station (if they own the property).
2. Moon Beam gives CP a residential development permit as long as there is a continuous green way/walking/bike path the total length of the r of w, of course charging normal development fees.

Advantages

1. Takes C Line UBC students of at Marine reducing the pax pressure at City Hall
2. Puts Arbutus folks (existing and CP development) on transit
3. Builds a major necessary piece of a future White Rock (etc) to water front line
4. Ties up a major transportation route that will be required albeit maybe not for 50 years
5. The development of the CP r of w brings in tax revenue to the COV that will be need to do important things after we get rid of Moon Bean and his tribe,,,,sorry did I get political. Must be the wine talking.

Good idea.

[Prometheus]

And what does the benefit of the redevelopment of the land minus the cost of building an underground line equal to?

[officedweller]

Came across this pic of the Royal Hudson crossing Broadway on the Arbutus Line in 1975.


https://www.facebook.com/everyplaceh...e=3&permPage=1

[trofirhen]

WHAT a picture !!!! Love it !!!!!

[SFUVancouver]

Wow! I've never seen that photo before, nor did I realize that the Royal Hudson had ever rolled through Vancouver proper.

[Jebby]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

Wow! I've never seen that photo before, nor did I realize that the Royal Hudson had ever rolled through Vancouver proper.

It's interesting that the dry cleaners on the corner are still there. And even still have the same sign! (although it is now painted red and turned 90 degrees to face Broadway)

[casper]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

WHAT a picture !!!! Love it !!!!!

Great use for the route would be to have CP Rail run its own passenger train along the route. http://www.royalcanadianpacific.com/

[Jebby]

Originally Posted by casper

Great use for the route would be to have CP Rail run its own passenger train along the route. http://www.royalcanadianpacific.com/

They should run a very loud steam engine and blow the horn at every crossing.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Jebby

They should run a very loud steam engine and blow the horn at every crossing.

Yes. And this will be a Heritage Train, so all the nimby hollering about the noise won't do any good. CP can keep the land and work out a deal with the city.
As for future rrt down Arbutus, ha, it'll never happen and everybody knows it. Direct a future southbound rrt line from the peninsula, under Burrard, down through the immediate (south kits?) neighbourhood, angling onto granville. Oh, and tunnel-bore most of it.