Cogswell Interchange

[AnotherNorthender]

Originally Posted by HarbingerDe

We could put the IKEA right on top of the Citadel and turn the rest of the Citadel green into a circumferential tiered parking lot. How else will we attract more cars and Keith-type folks downtown?

Speaking of Citadel hill - I saw they fenced off a bunch of the green space near the garrison grounds to make way for more parking! Just what this city needs - less green space and more parking downtown. Wouldn't it have been more productive to just add another floor or two to the newly constructed parkade on the commons???

[Musquodoboit County]

What do people have against Bayer's lake and Dartmouth Crossing? Come on like every city in North America has these commercial zones every second exit on their inter city freeways. Like what do people propose we do make Dartmouth crossing

[Dartguard]

Originally Posted by Musquodoboit County

What do people have against Bayer's lake and Dartmouth Crossing? Come on like every city in North America has these commercial zones every second exit on their inter city freeways. Like what do people propose we do make Dartmouth crossing

Some folks would like it to be the Quarry and asphalt plant it used to be . It took a hometown boy that went West to see the Dart Crossing potential. I don't mind Dartmouth Crossing at all really as a couple of my best Customers are there and folks from out of town love it as they can 'visit" Halifax without actually going there.

[Summerville]

They could have built something closer to Boston’s Assembly Row. It’s a mixed residential - outlet commercial zone.

But,…it is serviced by the T which is perhaps one reason why it isn’t so bad.

[Empire]

Bayer's Lake has a very poor design.
- It has a very congested route in via Chain Lake Dr.
- There are no bus turnouts so a stopped bus holds up traffic.
- Washmill is has no access to and from the Bi-Hi.
- The only other entrance / exit is from route #3 via Lakeland Blvd. and is a complete boondoggle with after-the-fact lanes and dangerous intersection.
- Massive parking lots serve as ad hok streets. Cars shortcut through the endless parking lots as there is not define street design outside the main drags.

No bus turnouts:
https://www.google.ca/maps/@44.65273...8192?entry=ttu

Massive parking lots:
https://www.google.ca/maps/@44.64491...!1e3?entry=ttu

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by HarbingerDe

You should be shocked to learn that they're building [GASP] HOUSING at Dartmouth Crossing.

First they took downtown from Keith. Now they're taking his precious shopping parkade. Is nothing sacred? What will Keith do?

So I gather. Seems a very odd location for housing but there's a lot of that going around these days. I hear you are looking for a place, so maybe you should move there. I'm sure you will enjoy riding your bicycle on the 100-series highways. Fortunately even the extremist junior planners within HRM realize that the measures they inflicted upon the older sections of the city would not stand in a place like DC.

[Saul Goode]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

DC seems to have more potential to be improved relatively easily but it is saddled with numerous 4-way stops and choke points that really could be cleaned up fairly easily, but again, it seems nobody is motivated to do so.

As someone who navigates DC every working day, I have to say I have very, very little difficulty driving there. The four-way stops are far from "numerous" and really present no material problem. Movement within the park is not much of a hassle at all, and ridiculously easy compared to Bayers Lake.

Where I'd agree, though, is on ingress and egress from the park. There needs to be a way in and out at the south end (Home Depot area); perhaps it could be connected to Eileen Stubbs. But the current exit onto the 118 is the worst. It's truly horrific, an homage to poor design.

While the fixes have geographic constraints and would be technically tricky, inconvenient and no doubt hellishly expensive, there's no doubt that they're going to have to be addressed eventually. And the sooner, the better - traffic there is getting heavier by the month.

[ArchAficionado]

I think that having both urban-format walkable shopping options in the city center as well as primarily car-accessed big box stores in the suburbs are a fine complement to each other. And agreed with others on the matter of Bayer's Lake's dubious design. Perhaps more delineated parking lots with an access road running behind the stores along the highway corridor (feeder road style) would be an improvement.

Nonetheless, I think that the dense housing nearby, but not within, these areas could improve the long-term viability of having light rail train station options in the future so that these sorts of places are conveniently accessible by all transport modes.

This ties into my "we need more of everything" philosophy as pertains to infrastructure. Although I tend to lean urbanist (and no Keith, I'm not a "junior planner extremist", I'm a structural engineer who designs highways and bridges for a living and understands their utility as well as their limitations)

[Haliguy]

Originally Posted by Musquodoboit County

What do people have against Bayer's lake and Dartmouth Crossing? Come on like every city in North America has these commercial zones every second exit on their inter city freeways. Like what do people propose we do make Dartmouth crossing

I don't think they are any worse than any other commercial park in North America. I think they are all bad.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Haliguy

I don't think they are any worse than any other commercial park in North America. I think they are all bad.

And yet they fill a very necessary niche.

Big box stores serve a purpose. They have to be built somewhere. If families are going to buy in bulk, they will need a car to stuff their purchases in, and, hence parking lots and roadways.

I will return to my IKEA example. Would Halifax have attracted the Maritime regional IKEA store if there were not a commercial retail area like Dartmouth Crossing to build it in???

Some urbanists feel the ideal is to be able to cycle to your neighbourhood butcher shop and green grocer on a daily basis to get your ingredients for supper, and then prepare your meal from scratch. The reality is that most people are extremely busy and have no time for such luxuries.

This is not the 1890s any more.........

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

And yet they fill a very necessary niche.

Big box stores serve a purpose. They have to be built somewhere. If families are going to buy in bulk, they will need a car to stuff their purchases in, and, hence parking lots and roadways.

I will return to my IKEA example. Would Halifax have attracted the Maritime regional IKEA store if there were not a commercial retail area like Dartmouth Crossing to build it in???

Some urbanists feel the ideal is to be able to cycle to your neighbourhood butcher shop and green grocer on a daily basis to get your ingredients for supper, and then prepare your meal from scratch. The reality is that most people are extremely busy and have no time for such luxuries.

This is not the 1890s any more.........

Neither Dartmouth Crossing nor Bayer's Lake invented the big box format nor introduced it to the HRM. Several of the major stores in DC already existed in other locations. There was a Walmart at Penhorn before it ceased to be a mall, the Canadian Tire was at Tacoma in the location of the current Sobeys which is now a Lawtons. There also used to be a Future Shop beside Chapters at Micmac before the chain closed after being bought out by Best Buy and there was a Home Depot over near Portland St. And there are plenty of other examples of big box stores not out in such places. There's a Canadian Tire on Quinpool, Walmart at Mumford, Staples on Gottingen, and many of much more urban format locations in other places including an urban format Costco in central Vancouver.

So no, the existence of such commercial edge districts is in no way "necessary". It's always frustrating when, instead of arguing why something they like is good, people just pretend it's "necessary" and therefore we have no choice but to accept it. I don't think I've ever heard a case when it was actually true. Not only can and did big box exist long before DC and BL, but even if you wanted to avoid big box all together, you certainly don't need to buy fresh produce and cook from scratch. There are plenty of packaged products at normal grocery stores too. Maybe they're not as large of packages as in Costco, but to claim that such a format is necessary and inevitable when the vast majority of the world including people in developed countries get buy without is silly.

[Saul Goode]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Would Halifax have attracted the Maritime regional IKEA store if there were not a commercial retail area like Dartmouth Crossing to build it in???

Yes, it definitely would have. Do you honestly believe IKEA was attracted here because of the existence of Dartmouth Crossing? Do you think IKEA needed DC's commercial traffic to support it?

Hardly. IKEA is a destination retailer - among the biggest there is. All they needed was a large enough lot, near a major highway. The fact that DC happened to exist already was just convenient, not necessary. They could have built on a vacant lot carved out of the woods anywhere else next to a highway in the metro Halifax area and watched as other retail magically bloomed around them - which is exactly what happened with Price Club in Bayers Lake after Halifax managed to steal them from Burnside at the last minute.

IKEA is here simply because their market studies showed them Halifax was the place to go. The fact that DC had land available in a great location, with access roads already in place, just made it that much easier.

[JET]

DC seems to have more potential to be improved relatively easily but it is saddled with numerous 4-way stops and choke points that really could be cleaned up fairly easily, but again, it seems nobody is motivated to do so.[/QUOTE]

I really hate going to Bayer's Lake, It's like driving down a street with a parade in progress.
I find dartmouth Crossing to be easy to access, with many ways to get in and out. There are multiple 4 way stops, but they are not an issue.

[JET]

Originally Posted by Saul Goode

Yes, it definitely would have. Do you honestly believe IKEA was attracted here because of the existence of Dartmouth Crossing? Do you think IKEA needed DC's commercial traffic to support it?

Hardly. IKEA is a destination retailer - among the biggest there is. All they needed was a large enough lot, near a major highway. The fact that DC happened to exist already was just convenient, not necessary. They could have built on a vacant lot carved out of the woods anywhere else next to a highway in the metro Halifax area and watched as other retail magically bloomed around them - which is exactly what happened with Price Club in Bayers Lake after Halifax managed to steal them from Burnside at the last minute.

IKEA is here simply because their market studies showed them Halifax was the place to go. The fact that DC had land available in a great location, with access roads already in place, just made it that much easier.

IKEA in Bayers Lake would have been insanity, DC has multiple ways to get in and out.

[Saul Goode]

Originally Posted by JET

IKEA in Bayers Lake would have been insanity, DC has multiple ways to get in and out.

Well, of course.

My point, though, was that IKEA didn't need an established commercial park in order to be successful. It's one of those giant retail magnets of which it's actually true to say "build it and they will come".

They could have built anywhere. DC was just convenient.

[GTG_78]

Originally Posted by JET

I really hate going to Bayer's Lake, It's like driving down a street with a parade in progress.
I find dartmouth Crossing to be easy to access, with many ways to get in and out. There are multiple 4 way stops, but they are not an issue.

The only one that is a real issue is the one at Lemlair Row, given the outflow traffic from Walmart and Canadian Tire.

Arguably, there was a missed opportunity to build more housing near the faux villages, but otherwise Dartmouth Crossing itself is a success story.

[Saul Goode]

Originally Posted by GTG_78

The only one that is a real issue is the one at Lemlair Row, given the outflow traffic from Walmart and Canadian Tire.

And even that one's not terrible. Can be confusing, where there are multiple lanes and some drivers just can't figure out four-ways, but I can't say I've ever been terribly inconvenienced or delayed there.

[HarbingerDe]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

So I gather. Seems a very odd location for housing but there's a lot of that going around these days. I hear you are looking for a place, so maybe you should move there. I'm sure you will enjoy riding your bicycle on the 100-series highways. Fortunately even the extremist junior planners within HRM realize that the measures they inflicted upon the older sections of the city would not stand in a place like DC.

You'll be pleased to know that I drive a personal automobile to work as I cannot afford to live anywhere that cycling/walking to work is an attractive or feasible option because people like yourself have spent generations enshrining car dependency into LITERAL LAW.

[Haliguy]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

And yet they fill a very necessary niche.


Some urbanists feel the ideal is to be able to cycle to your neighbourhood butcher shop and green grocer on a daily basis to get your ingredients for supper, and then prepare your meal from scratch. The reality is that most people are extremely busy and have no time for such luxuries.

This is not the 1890s any more.........

Large modern grocery stores don't have to be in business parks. They can be in urban environments or suburban environments. My point with business parks is that its a dumb way to shop. You drive from store to store in nightmare traffic. Downtowns or malls seem to make so much more sense to me.

[Dartguard]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

Neither Dartmouth Crossing nor Bayer's Lake invented the big box format nor introduced it to the HRM. Several of the major stores in DC already existed in other locations. There was a Walmart at Penhorn before it ceased to be a mall, the Canadian Tire was at Tacoma in the location of the current Sobeys which is now a Lawtons. There also used to be a Future Shop beside Chapters at Micmac before the chain closed after being bought out by Best Buy and there was a Home Depot over near Portland St. And there are plenty of other examples of big box stores not out in such places. There's a Canadian Tire on Quinpool, Walmart at Mumford, Staples on Gottingen, and many of much more urban format locations in other places including an urban format Costco in central Vancouver.

So no, the existence of such commercial edge districts is in no way "necessary". It's always frustrating when, instead of arguing why something they like is good, people just pretend it's "necessary" and therefore we have no choice but to accept it. I don't think I've ever heard a case when it was actually true. Not only can and did big box exist long before DC and BL, but even if you wanted to avoid big box all together, you certainly don't need to buy fresh produce and cook from scratch. There are plenty of packaged products at normal grocery stores too. Maybe they're not as large of packages as in Costco, but to claim that such a format is necessary and inevitable when the vast majority of the world including people in developed countries get buy without is silly.

Interesting that you mention the Canadian Tire on Quinpool. I often fix things for my Brother in the neighbourhood as lets just say his talents lie in other area's. The Quinpool Cdn Tire did not have what I needed for a recent fix and I wound up going to the Halifax HD. Thus puncturing the 1950's go back to policies that some Urbanists pine for.It all works especially in these times of little time and the get r dun list of things we all need.