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  #941  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2013, 10:32 PM
eternallyme eternallyme is offline
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It's going to be a busy area, that is for sure, if everyone chooses to locate there...

I wonder how it would affect:

a) The area west of the canal (i.e. the central business district)

b) Rideau Street farther down (i.e. east of Dalhousie, and especially east of King Edward)
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  #942  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2013, 10:34 PM
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When? When will they renovate!? Why is everything done so damn slow in this city? If they are spending 40 million in Vancouver, how much will they spend in Ottawa?
Because they probably wanted it to coincide with 1) a $2.1bn LRT system at their front door and 2) a $250M renovation of the attached top performing shopping centre and 3) with what was surely a long considered plan to buy Saks and bring it to Canada.

Look, they're not even planning to renovate their Calgary downtown store at all.
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  #943  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2013, 11:48 PM
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I've never been to Calgary but from what I have seen on Google Maps and pictures, it already looks well kept compared to Ottawa and Montreal (shitty reclad jobs, poor street interaction, so on and so forth). Was it confirmed exactly which ones would be renovated? As far as I know only the TO flagship and Vancouver have been overhauled so far. Any news on that eyesore in Edmonton or the Winnipeg store or Montreal for that matter?

I hope that based on the three reasons mentioned, they will go all out with Ottawa; rip out the orange panels on George, gut the interior while keeping any historic detailing or materials (ever seen the windows and hard wood floors on the top floor), make it less choppy, have Saks (if the will of a store in Ottawa exists) take up its own building between Chapters and the main Freiman Building (taller, narrow portion) so that it is sort of its own store...

And to give my version of answers to eternallyme;

a) It would hurt the chances of Sparks becoming a high class retail destination but give it a chance to become another restaurant/bar district/entertainment district. It might also kill Holt Renfrew if they can't find space on Rideau. On a positive note, it could encourage more people from the CBD to go shopping after work by having a shopping district that rivals (somewhat) the other big cities. The subway will also have a part in a new culture of not heading home after work.

b) Short walk from the Rideau shopping district and the subway, it could be a prime spot to catch a show in one of many theatres after work. The "theatre district" will also benefit from an increased population living in condo towers and depending on the quality of these new developments (Claridge Plaza or Beth Shalom), we may also see the shopping district head further down Rideau.

I said it before and I'll say it again, burying truck traffic under King Edward would do wonders in making Rideau "usable" and attractive for quality redevelopment all the way down to the Cummings Bridge and up and down King Eds.
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  #944  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2013, 1:44 AM
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Just closing the loop on the previous discussion there, Nigel. Or is it Basil?
it's neither, Acajacques
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  #945  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2013, 1:45 AM
eternallyme eternallyme is offline
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
I've never been to Calgary but from what I have seen on Google Maps and pictures, it already looks well kept compared to Ottawa and Montreal (shitty reclad jobs, poor street interaction, so on and so forth). Was it confirmed exactly which ones would be renovated? As far as I know only the TO flagship and Vancouver have been overhauled so far. Any news on that eyesore in Edmonton or the Winnipeg store or Montreal for that matter?

I hope that based on the three reasons mentioned, they will go all out with Ottawa; rip out the orange panels on George, gut the interior while keeping any historic detailing or materials (ever seen the windows and hard wood floors on the top floor), make it less choppy, have Saks (if the will of a store in Ottawa exists) take up its own building between Chapters and the main Freiman Building (taller, narrow portion) so that it is sort of its own store...

And to give my version of answers to eternallyme;

a) It would hurt the chances of Sparks becoming a high class retail destination but give it a chance to become another restaurant/bar district/entertainment district. It might also kill Holt Renfrew if they can't find space on Rideau. On a positive note, it could encourage more people from the CBD to go shopping after work by having a shopping district that rivals (somewhat) the other big cities. The subway will also have a part in a new culture of not heading home after work.

b) Short walk from the Rideau shopping district and the subway, it could be a prime spot to catch a show in one of many theatres after work. The "theatre district" will also benefit from an increased population living in condo towers and depending on the quality of these new developments (Claridge Plaza or Beth Shalom), we may also see the shopping district head further down Rideau.

I said it before and I'll say it again, burying truck traffic under King Edward would do wonders in making Rideau "usable" and attractive for quality redevelopment all the way down to the Cummings Bridge and up and down King Eds.
I agree there, the CBD would definitely lose out on middle to upper-level shopping, especially on Sparks Street (although the restaurants would still be very popular both with tourists and employees in the area - it's a pretty long walk from Rideau Street to the western part of the CBD), and some of their retailers might just decide to move to lower Rideau (i.e. east of King Edward) if a rent deal is made. Presumably rents would be lower, at least initially, on the eastern part of Rideau as well. I would definitely expect Holt Renfrew to relocate or close, there is just no way it would survive at 240 Sparks. Many other similar-level retailers in the area would have the same fate. Sparks Street would basically be a western extension of Elgin Street in a sense (between the government-focused Wellington and the mixed government/business buildings on Queen, Albert, Slater and Laurier).

Bank Street may not be hit as hard, since very few retail chains exist along it and the retail scene there is a lot more specialized, especially south of Laurier.

The truck tunnel would be a HUGE improvement and make it highly attractive, I agree! Also if they ever build a light rail subway under Rideau Street, that would also go a long way towards development opportunities.

As for Sussex Drive? I think they would actually benefit, especially if signed well. They would be just around the corner and would provide their own specialty - and locally-owned - businesses. Maybe a retail mecca would start at the National Gallery, work around Rideau Street and back to King Edward (splitting apart there)?

The biggest loser? The suburbs. I think suburban regional malls would take a serious hit if everything sets up around Rideau Street. They will simply put be squeezed out between the super-regional Rideau area and the community shopping areas/malls.
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  #946  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2013, 2:04 AM
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The biggest loser? The suburbs. I think suburban regional malls would take a serious hit if everything sets up around Rideau Street. They will simply put be squeezed out between the super-regional Rideau area and the community shopping areas/malls.
Good riddance! I would love to see a revival of Rideau as a the high end shopping nexus it used to be thanks to the Rideau expansion, Saks, Simons, Nordstrom, a revival of Hudson's Bay and possibly stretching the shopping district east on Rideau and north on Sussex as well as the Confederation Line.

Even with these improvements we still have a long way to go with better condo developments with room for more high end retail (Holt Renfrew), a few new hotels (Hyatt at the old Union Building and a new hotel at the Rideau Centre or Arts Court) and eventually a King Eds tunnel and possibly a Rideau Subway.

Another huge problem we need to address NOW is the STO buses. Get those off Rideau au plus câlisse. Maybe we should build a bus station in the King Eds tunnel and connect it to the Rideau via a pedestrian tunnel.
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  #947  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2013, 2:32 AM
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Good riddance! I would love to see a revival of Rideau as a the high end shopping nexus it used to be thanks to the Rideau expansion, Saks, Simons, Nordstrom, a revival of Hudson's Bay and possibly stretching the shopping district east on Rideau and north on Sussex as well as the Confederation Line.

Even with these improvements we still have a long way to go with better condo developments with room for more high end retail (Holt Renfrew), a few new hotels (Hyatt at the old Union Building and a new hotel at the Rideau Centre or Arts Court) and eventually a King Eds tunnel and possibly a Rideau Subway.

Another huge problem we need to address NOW is the STO buses. Get those off Rideau au plus câlisse. Maybe we should build a bus station in the King Eds tunnel and connect it to the Rideau via a pedestrian tunnel.
They could move the STO buses to the Mackenzie King Bridge after the LRT is completed, since capacity would exist there and it would maintain traffic flow in the Rideau Centre for transfers downtown. The only issue would be finding a layup spot for them. Having the O-Train cross the river to downtown Gatineau would also open up new transfer opportunities with crosstown routes in Gatineau with fewer buses in downtown Ottawa.

Back in the suburbs, I think at least 1 or 2 malls could die out completely (either by a total redevelopment or by attrition) as a result.
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  #948  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2013, 2:34 AM
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Bunch of new (to Ottawa) retailers coming to Ottawa at the development on Hunt Club with the Lowes.

- Panera Bread
- Sandman Hotel
- Shark Club Sports Bar Grill
- Chop Steakhouse Bar
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  #949  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2013, 2:49 AM
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They could move the STO buses to the Mackenzie King Bridge after the LRT is completed, since capacity would exist there and it would maintain traffic flow in the Rideau Centre for transfers downtown. The only issue would be finding a layup spot for them.
STO's waiting area is just under one of the viaducts coming off the M-C bridge at King Edward. I think it is called Union Terminal or something. It was set up to keep them from waiting along King Edward near the LCBO. Not sure how accessible or handy this would be if the routes used Mackenzie King Bridge, but the idea is a good one. Maybe get them to use Albert and Slater too to get them off Wellington which should be a prestige street in Ottawa rather than wall to wall buses.
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  #950  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2013, 2:50 AM
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They could move the STO buses to the Mackenzie King Bridge after the LRT is completed, since capacity would exist there and it would maintain traffic flow in the Rideau Centre for transfers downtown. The only issue would be finding a layup spot for them. Having the O-Train cross the river to downtown Gatineau would also open up new transfer opportunities with crosstown routes in Gatineau with fewer buses in downtown Ottawa.

Back in the suburbs, I think at least 1 or 2 malls could die out completely (either by a total redevelopment or by attrition) as a result.
Certainly a place like Place d'Orléans would be in tough.
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  #951  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2013, 12:25 PM
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Bunch of new (to Ottawa) retailers coming to Ottawa at the development on Hunt Club with the Lowes.

- Panera Bread
- Sandman Hotel
- Shark Club Sports Bar Grill
- Chop Steakhouse Bar
Wowzers...I've been wondering about this development, it seems to be filling up slowly after the Lowes was completed. I like Panera Bread as far as chain places go, I think it will do well here.
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  #952  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2013, 1:07 PM
eternallyme eternallyme is offline
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Certainly a place like Place d'Orléans would be in tough.
Agreed, that is first on the list IMO that could fall off completely. If they were smart, they would plan for it now with a total redevelopment, bring more offices and residential into the area to make a "downtown" of sorts.

However, all the other regional malls in the Ottawa area will take a significant impact with a super-regional Rideau Centre and area taking a dominant position for the entire region (it already is, I believe, the 6th most productive mall in Canada and among the top 15 in all of North America). The LRT will hurt them even more (to the benefit of the Rideau area) due to even greater ease of access. It's not like parking is any easier at Bayshore or St. Laurent either...

The community-level malls aren't likely going anywhere (although they may change in design or purpose) as they serve a completely different clientele and purpose.
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  #953  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2013, 1:28 PM
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I think Rideau is about to become something we've always wanted: a destination. With condo towers, hotels, expanded shopping mall, LRT this will make a huge different to clean up and liven up this part of town.

Holt is very small, bad hours and bad location so they have to do something if they plan to survive. I do think that the Rideau area is still relatively "small" and so I think an updated Sparks AND the Rideau area could both survive. Especially with the added residents around Sparks... That being said; Holt should either move on Rideau OR move on Sparks; that's it.

Still a lot of stores that we don't have in Ottawa yet which I think could open up and liven up Sparks St:

-Abercrombie & Fitch
-Hollister
-Pottery Barn
-Tiffany & Co
-Victoria Secret
-Gucci
-Armani Exchange
-Disney Store
-Express
-J Crew
-Juicy Couture
-Levi's
-Louis Vuitton
-Nike Store
-Sony

Plus add a couple more restaurants, coffee shops, hotels, condo and we have ourselved a magnificent Spark St to be proud of!

God this list is making me realize how "retail-deprived" we are here in Ottawa...
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  #954  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2013, 1:39 PM
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Agreed, that is first on the list IMO that could fall off completely. If they were smart, they would plan for it now with a total redevelopment, bring more offices and residential into the area to make a "downtown" of sorts.

However, all the other regional malls in the Ottawa area will take a significant impact with a super-regional Rideau Centre and area taking a dominant position for the entire region (it already is, I believe, the 6th most productive mall in Canada and among the top 15 in all of North America). The LRT will hurt them even more (to the benefit of the Rideau area) due to even greater ease of access. It's not like parking is any easier at Bayshore or St. Laurent either...

The community-level malls aren't likely going anywhere (although they may change in design or purpose) as they serve a completely different clientele and purpose.
What about Carlingwood or Billings Bridge? In the case of Carlingwood at least, wasn't it at one point considered in the same league as St Laurent? (I realize this was a long time ago.)
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  #955  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2013, 1:42 PM
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What about Carlingwood or Billings Bridge? In the case of Carlingwood at least, wasn't it at one point considered in the same league as St Laurent? (I realize this was a long time ago.)
They're closer to community-level (i.e. serving just a smaller part of town rather than a large part of the region), especially Billings Bridge which is definitely more of one.

As for retail on Sparks Street? Highly doubt any of that will happen. Most likely it is going to be forever known as an entertainment hub and restaurant row...not that it is a bad thing, it makes big business during the business day and in the summer (it's dead the rest of the year in the evenings and weekends though). It's more likely to spread down Rideau towards King Edward (and beyond?) than onto Sparks. Of course, that will displace a lot of the existing businesses on Rideau Street, since they won't be able to afford the rent...I'm sure they'd find new homes though nearby (Bank Street? Montreal Road? Some of the better ones might find a home on the lower part of Rideau Street, i.e. closer to the Cummings Bridge?)

Having said that, some unique restaurants could be attractive for Sparks Street.
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  #956  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2013, 1:49 PM
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They're closer to community-level (i.e. serving just a smaller part of town rather than a large part of the region), especially Billings Bridge which is definitely more of one.

.
Another point to mention is that Oxford Properties is now the owner of Les Promenades in Gatineau and is about to spruce and beef it up in a big way.

The main impact of this is likely to be that Gatineau shoppers will be even more likely to stay on their side of the river.

I don't see this hurting Rideau at all because it a) has a huge amount of through traffic on any given day and b) its offerings once all of this is done will be fairly unique to the region.

Les Promenades' revamp will have an impact on St Laurent though because this is often where Gatineau people go when they don't want to go to Les Promenades.
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  #957  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2013, 6:13 PM
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Agreed, that is first on the list IMO that could fall off completely. If they were smart, they would plan for it now with a total redevelopment, bring more offices and residential into the area to make a "downtown" of sorts.

However, all the other regional malls in the Ottawa area will take a significant impact with a super-regional Rideau Centre and area taking a dominant position for the entire region (it already is, I believe, the 6th most productive mall in Canada and among the top 15 in all of North America). The LRT will hurt them even more (to the benefit of the Rideau area) due to even greater ease of access. It's not like parking is any easier at Bayshore or St. Laurent either...

The community-level malls aren't likely going anywhere (although they may change in design or purpose) as they serve a completely different clientele and purpose.
What hurt Place d'Orléans more than anything was the Innes development of "SmartCentres" (who came up with this name!?).Totally sucked traffic away from St-Joseph towards this horrible mess of drive through stores.

Last edited by teej1984; Aug 22, 2013 at 8:12 PM.
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  #958  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2013, 6:44 PM
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What hurt Place d'Orléans more than anything was the Innes development of "SmartCentres" (who came up with this name!?).Totally sucked traffic away from Jeanne D'arc towards this horrible mess of drive through stores.
I think you meant St-Joseph rather than Jeanne d'Arc but yeah Innes in Orleans is such a mess.
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  #959  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2013, 6:47 PM
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What hurt Place d'Orléans more than anything was the Innes development of "SmartCentres" (who came up with this name!?).Totally sucked traffic away from Jeanne D'arc towards this horrible mess of drive through stores.
More specifically, Walmart leaving really hurt the mall. Zellers couldn't pull its weight as a replacement anchor, we'll see if Target can somewhat revive the traffic that Walmart brought in.
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  #960  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2013, 7:09 PM
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More specifically, Walmart leaving really hurt the mall. Zellers couldn't pull its weight as a replacement anchor, we'll see if Target can somewhat revive the traffic that Walmart brought in.
If I were Place d'Orléans management I might be concerned about Target eventually packing up and moving to Innes as well.

I know people will say that with all the development southwards that Innes will someday be at the centre of Orleans, but it still seems weird to me that so much of the shopping in a community is concentrated in one extremity. I mean, from some places in northeast Orleans, the businesses on the Innes strip are almost as far as St Laurent Shopping Centre, and probably take longer to get to because of all of the stoplights. It just doesn't make sense from a community planning standpoint, and is even more stupid when you consider that Orleans already had a main shopping strip and "heart" on St Joseph. Place d'Orléans stole some thunder from St Joseph but at least it was along the same axis.

This "jettisoning" of an established main street in favour a new one is just soooo reminescent of the worst planning decisions made by so many cities over the past few decades, and explains why you now have decline and blight on many commercial streets even in fairly prosperous suburbs in the US.
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