Winnipeg Construction X

[TimeFadesAway]

Originally Posted by CoryB

Winnipeg residents cannot even agree on the most basic of things like building a functional road network (Kennaston) or creating a functional transit system without getting dragged way off into the weeds (LRT or nothing).

Winnipeg residents cannot even agree on how to cross a street (P&M)

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by TimeFadesAway

Winnipeg residents cannot even agree on how to cross a street (P&M)

That was settled in a 2018 plebiscite - only acceptable ways to cross Portage and Main are by private vehicle or public transit.

[TimeFadesAway]

Originally Posted by CoryB

That was settled in a 2018 plebiscite - only acceptable ways to cross Portage and Main are by private vehicle or public transit.

Which demonstrates the stupidity of the average suburban voter in Winnipeg and the cowardice of our leadership.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by TimeFadesAway

Which demonstrates the stupidity of the average suburban voter in Winnipeg and the cowardice of our leadership.

That plebiscite was the biggest cop out in recent memory. I take some solace in the fact that they will probably go with simple bollards when they rip everything up, at least that will look less scary.

Man, if there's one thing that Winnipeggers hate more than anything else, that's change of any kind. They're absolutely petrified in the face of the fact that any single aspect of their lives might be even slightly affected.

Frustrating, especially when other cities in Canada continuously lap us on any infrastructure issue...

[WestEndWander]

Originally Posted by Hecate

Guaranteed that city you’re in predates the automobile but still manages to have at least one major freeway, connected with autoroutes that are full out freeways. You can’t even drive across the province here without hitting lights. Ohh and the city you’re in probably has an efficient public transportation system too.

You think saving five minutes is bad? Think about the cost to drivers, in fuel and time, think about the cost to the environment of 70,000 plus cars running and idling for ten minutes longer everyday. Think about our transportation industry and how that affects their costs, and times. All along route 90 there are trucking businesses and multiple industrial and commercial zones, all require trucks to keep the flow of goods and materials going and this city’s piss poor planning costs them all dearly.

Have travelled to virtually every major city in Europe. No urban freeways. Anywhere.

Honestly not too concerned about the cost of fuel and time to drivers on Route 90. They choose to live out in B.F nowhere, knowing the existing conditions. Deal with it. You want shorter commute times, live closer to where you need/want to go on a regular basis, or again, deal with it.

No trucking business or industrial zones south of Saskatchewan on Route 90. Ultra light industrial around Sterling Lyon doesn't require large trucks. The flow of goods and materials shouldn't be expedited through residential neighborhoods. Route 90 should not be viewed as a truck route/trade corridor. It`s not.

[esquire]

^ Route 90 is not some sort of commuter route serving people who live in new far flung exurban developments. It's a major arterial serving places like RRC, Polo Park, the airport, Assiniboine Park, River Heights, soon the new infill development on Kenaston... these are all old and well-established parts of the city.

It's as though we hear these buzzwords on social media and project them to what's going on in Winnipeg even though it doesn't fit at all. "Stomp out induced demand!" I got news for you, the demand has been there for decades.

[rkspec]

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

I take some solace in the fact that they will probably go with simple bollards when they rip everything up, at least that will look less scary.

speaking of bollards, not sure how long they've been up for, but ones they installed for the cop shop downtown looked pretty slick while driving by it the other day.

[zalf]

Originally Posted by rkspec

speaking of bollards, not sure how long they've been up for, but ones they installed for the cop shop downtown looked pretty slick while driving by it the other day.

A couple years, at least.

In continuing bollard news, a few days ago, it looked like bollards were being installed at the corners of Carlton and Broadway. Am I interpreting what I saw correctly?

[WestEndWander]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ Route 90 is not some sort of commuter route serving people who live in new far flung exurban developments. It's a major arterial serving places like RRC, Polo Park, the airport, Assiniboine Park, River Heights, soon the new infill development on Kenaston... these are all old and well-established parts of the city.

It's as though we hear these buzzwords on social media and project them to what's going on in Winnipeg even though it doesn't fit at all. "Stomp out induced demand!" I got news for you, the demand has been there for decades.

So is it not a commuter route as you say?

Or is it a commuter route with people going to RRC, Polo Park, residential neighborhoods (River Heights, Waverly West, Whyte Ride, Lindenwoods, Tuxedo) , Assiniboine Park, as you also say?

Can't be both.

When over 95% of traffic on the roadway is single passenger vehicles it would seem to indicate it is a commuter route. People going places. If it takes them 5 more minutes to get to those places because of where they choose to live, then so be it.

Also if the demand has been there for decades and we've managed to deal with it, why the urgency now? Make the required surface/median improvements and repairs, widen sidewalks, add a bike lane on each side, call it a day, save $350 million for other projects that will benefit all residents of Winnipeg. Easy peasy real world city building.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by WestEndWander

So is it not a commuter route as you say?

Or is it a commuter route with people going to RRC, Polo Park, residential neighborhoods (River Heights, Waverly West, Whyte Ride, Lindenwoods, Tuxedo) , Assiniboine Park, as you also say?

Can't be both.

When over 95% of traffic on the roadway is single passenger vehicles it would seem to indicate it is a commuter route. People going places. If it takes them 5 more minutes to get to those places because of where they choose to live, then so be it.

Also if the demand has been there for decades and we've managed to deal with it, why the urgency now? Make the required surface/median improvements and repairs, widen sidewalks, add a bike lane on each side, call it a day, save $350 million for other projects that will benefit all residents of Winnipeg. Easy peasy real world city building.

What I said is this: "Route 90 is not some sort of commuter route serving people who live in new far flung exurban developments." The entire sentence must be read in context.

I can appreciate that building an expressway to Sanford to service a new residential development there will induce demand that didn't previously exist. But Route 90 is not that. It is a route used to service long-standing, well-established parts of the city.

The urgency is driven by the fact that in typical Winnipeg fashion, we have delayed meaningful improvements for decades. This work should have been done 25 years ago when the base was starting to wind down. Our past inaction should not justify future inaction, especially as the need grows more dire.

[WestEndWander]

Originally Posted by esquire

What I said is this: "Route 90 is not some sort of commuter route serving people who live in new far flung exurban developments." The entire sentence must be read in context.

I can appreciate that building an expressway to Sanford to service a new residential development there will induce demand that didn't previously exist. But Route 90 is not that. It is a route used to service long-standing, well-established parts of the city.

The urgency is driven by the fact that in typical Winnipeg fashion, we have delayed meaningful improvements for decades. This work should have been done 25 years ago when the base was starting to wind down. Our past inaction should not justify future inaction, especially as the need grows more dire.

That's the thing. I consider Waverly West as an exurban development. Its about as far out as you can get, without actually leaving Winnipeg proper. 50,000 people chose to live there with the roadway existing as it does today.

Why will adding another lane to this section solve any problems when everything is again reduced to two lanes at Taylor going south, creating another bottle neck? You don't move during rush hour between Taylor and McGillvary. I don't understand how an extra lane in this tiny stretch will do anything to alleviate that, where the actual induced demand has been created by these suburban developments.

The only long standing area this expansion serves is River Heights, which it doesn't even do, as it will only further divide the east and west sides with increased traffic.

Unfortunately I'll always view a billion dollars spent on roads as a absolute waste of taxpayer money, no matter how long some people have to wait in traffic because of where they chose to live.

[rkspec]

Originally Posted by zalf

A couple years, at least.

thanks, thats about the time i started working from home

[esquire]

Originally Posted by WestEndWander

That's the thing. I consider Waverly West as an exurban development. Its about as far out as you can get, without actually leaving Winnipeg proper. 50,000 people chose to live there with the roadway existing as it does today.

Why will adding another lane to this section solve any problems when everything is again reduced to two lanes at Taylor going south, creating another bottle neck? You don't move during rush hour between Taylor and McGillvary. I don't understand how an extra lane in this tiny stretch will do anything to alleviate that, where the actual induced demand has been created by these suburban developments.

The only long standing area this expansion serves is River Heights, which it doesn't even do, as it will only further divide the east and west sides with increased traffic.

Unfortunately I'll always view a billion dollars spent on roads as a absolute waste of taxpayer money, no matter how long some people have to wait in traffic because of where they chose to live.

I was thinking that people opposed to this project did so mainly as a punitive measure, a way to get back at the people down in Waverley West. So that last comment is not terribly surprising. But the fact remains: Waverley West is not an exurban development. It's part of Winnipeg. Pretty well everything else along Route 90, certainly once you get north of the CN line, has been there for the better part of a century. This is not a road designed to accommodate brand new greenfield development.

And I agree it is not ideal that Kenaston south of Sterling Lyon goes down to two lanes each way. It should be three all the way to the Bishop Grandin split. This is the first step towards getting there.

[TimeFadesAway]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ Route 90 is not some sort of commuter route serving people who live in new far flung exurban developments.

You are correct. Route 90 south of the St. James Bridge is a commuter route servicing suburban developments.

Originally Posted by esquire

It's a major arterial serving places like RRC, Polo Park, the airport

These portions of Route 90 are adequately built for their function.

Originally Posted by esquire

Assiniboine Park, River Heights, soon the new infill development on Kenaston... these are all old and well-established parts of the city.

That are all adequately serviced by the existing infrastructure.

Originally Posted by esquire

It's as though we hear these buzzwords on social media and project them to what's going on in Winnipeg even though it doesn't fit at all. "Stomp out induced demand!" I got news for you, the demand has been there for decades.

If the demand existed, the commuting times would be much longer.

[WestEndWander]

Originally Posted by esquire

I was thinking that people opposed to this project did so mainly as a punitive measure, a way to get back at the people down in Waverley West. So that last comment is not terribly surprising. But the fact remains: Waverley West is not an exurban development. It's part of Winnipeg. Pretty well everything else along Route 90, certainly once you get north of the CN line, has been there for the better part of a century. This is not a road designed to accommodate brand new greenfield development.

And I agree it is not ideal that Kenaston south of Sterling Lyon goes down to two lanes each way. It should be three all the way to the Bishop Grandin split. This is the first step towards getting there.

Yes, I want to punish people in Waverly West. That's a giant reach on your part and you couldn't be more incorrect. Poor reasoning by you.

What I have said is that people chose to live there knowing the existing infrastructure issues/travel times, etc. So deal with it. Want to live out there? Realize it will take you just that much longer to get home.

I chose to live where I did but I'm not on here complaining that Henderson Hwy needs to be 3 lanes from the perimeter to downtown cause things get a bit backed up sometimes.

We live in a city. People can choose to live where they want. Expecting all citizens to foot a billion dollar tab so people can get home to their McMansion by the dump just a little bit quicker isn't money well spent.

As previously mentioned on here by many that money could be used to build out our whole rapid transit network. We could actually have real functioning R.T. for all. Or a 1km stretch of expanded roadway to get out to the dump quicker that serves a small potion of the population. Commute times for all citizens on all forms of transportation don't matter? Or only those in the south of the city?

Which do you consider to be more visionary and actually productive city building? Cities everywhere in Canada are eliminating roadways and investing in R.T/A.T, and we want to spend a billion to expand 1km? Something doesn't compute.

[pacman]

Originally Posted by WestEndWander

Yes, I want to punish people in Waverly West. That's a giant reach on your part and you couldn't be more incorrect. Poor reasoning by you.

What I have said is that people chose to live there knowing the existing infrastructure issues/travel times, etc. So deal with it. Want to live out there? Realize it will take you just that much longer to get home.

I chose to live where I did but I'm not on here complaining that Henderson Hwy needs to be 3 lanes from the perimeter to downtown cause things get a bit backed up sometimes.

We live in a city. People can choose to live where they want. Expecting all citizens to foot a billion dollar tab so people can get home to their McMansion by the dump just a little bit quicker isn't money well spent.

As previously mentioned on here by many that money could be used to build out our whole rapid transit network. We could actually have real functioning R.T. for all. Or a 1km stretch of expanded roadway to get out to the dump quicker that serves a small potion of the population. Commute times for all citizens on all forms of transportation don't matter? Or only those in the south of the city?

Which do you consider to be more visionary and actually productive city building? Cities everywhere in Canada are eliminating roadways and investing in R.T/A.T, and we want to spend a billion to expand 1km? Something doesn't compute.

It's tedious reading this garbage continue getting trotted out. It's still a lot of money to expand Route 90, but it is a fraction of the overall project which includes the bridge replacements and the reconstruction/sewer work that are way overdue and are needed in no small part due to the excessive traffic loads being forced onto the existing roads. I know you want to characterize this project as only benefitting the newly minted Bridgwater folks and doesn't benefit anyone else in the city and it's a waste of time even going down that road. If you wanna believe there are no other benefits that's cool, I don't agree, but at least stop spewing the billion dollar expansion lie to try to suit your narrative.

[pacman]

Originally Posted by zalf

A couple years, at least.

In continuing bollard news, a few days ago, it looked like bollards were being installed at the corners of Carlton and Broadway. Am I interpreting what I saw correctly?

The Carlton and Broadway work is Signals replacements, they put up temporary stubs that look like bollards on the new bases until the new poles are put up.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by WestEndWander

Which do you consider to be more visionary and actually productive city building? Cities everywhere in Canada are eliminating roadways and investing in R.T/A.T, and we want to spend a billion to expand 1km? Something doesn't compute.

Let's check back in 10 years and see what happens. If the Kenaston project doesn't happen, then it's not like a billion dollars is suddenly going to materialize for transit. Chances are we'll end up with nothing. Meanwhile other cities will continue with their cost-shared road and transit projects. But at least we will have blocked a road project?

Originally Posted by pacman

It's tedious reading this garbage continue getting trotted out. It's still a lot of money to expand Route 90, but it is a fraction of the overall project which includes the bridge replacements and the reconstruction/sewer work that are way overdue and are needed in no small part due to the excessive traffic loads being forced onto the existing roads. I know you want to characterize this project as only benefitting the newly minted Bridgwater folks and doesn't benefit anyone else in the city and it's a waste of time even going down that road. If you wanna believe there are no other benefits that's cool, I don't agree, but at least stop spewing the billion dollar expansion lie to try to suit your narrative.

100% this. Route 90 from Portage to Taylor needs a complete rebuild. There is no avoiding a nine figure bill either way here.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by pacman

The Carlton and Broadway work is Signals replacements, they put up temporary stubs that look like bollards on the new bases until the new poles are put up.

Speaking of new signals, did the City ever follow up on that engineer's report that detailed crazy signal replacement practices by Public Works that led to some signals being replaced on an almost annual basis?

[Hecate]

Originally Posted by WestEndWander

Have travelled to virtually every major city in Europe. No urban freeways. Anywhere.

Honestly not too concerned about the cost of fuel and time to drivers on Route 90. They choose to live out in B.F nowhere, knowing the existing conditions. Deal with it. You want shorter commute times, live closer to where you need/want to go on a regular basis, or again, deal with it.

No trucking business or industrial zones south of Saskatchewan on Route 90. Ultra light industrial around Sterling Lyon doesn't require large trucks. The flow of goods and materials shouldn't be expedited through residential neighborhoods. Route 90 should not be viewed as a truck route/trade corridor. It`s not.

Lol then you’ve never been to Europe. Every single major city has them. Paris has freeways, London has freeways, Berlin… freeways.

As for no industrial zones south of Saskatchewan lol. Do you even live here???