PITTSBURGH | Development Rundown II

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by Brentsters

Riverlife blogged about the Oxford Three Crossings project.



http://www.riverlifepgh.org/blog/%20...d_development/

Annnd, the confusing renderings continue.

[BrianTH]

I like them all. And I have no problem with the Cultural District having as many unique bike racks as the Cultural Trust wants to fund:

http://pressroom.trustarts.org/2014/...ural-district/

http://bikepgh.org/2014/08/26/pittsb...al-bike-racks/

[BrianTH]

Interesting article about possible changes coming with the Strip developing a lot more residential units:

http://www.pghcitypaper.com/pittsbur...wFullText=true

My two cents on a couple issues. I'm not sure there will be much ability to mandate affordable housing set-asides since we are mostly talking about private land and the developers probably won't be asking for much public funding outside, perhaps, some historic tax credits. But I do think City officials should be pushing for developers to include more smaller units as part of the planning process, which are naturally more affordable.

I also hope we can work out a way to allow clubs and other nightlife venues to co-exist with new residential units. Indeed, some people like living in that sort of environment, and the Strip is probably as good a place as any for that sort of thing since it is otherwise pretty isolated.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Austinlee

Annnd, the confusing renderings continue.

I'm thinking that is supposed to be the other side of what was posted earlier, although again the design details seem a bit different:





This PDF seems very useful for understanding the overall proposal:

http://www.oxforddevelopment.com/wp-...-Crossings.pdf

Unfortunately, it does appear that ALL the renderings are right--there is the nice-looking apartment complex, and then the crappy-looking office buildings.

[BrianTH]

Tangential, but a cool piece about cleaning and maintenance in the historical theaters:

http://www.popcitymedia.com/features...ers082714.aspx

And supposedly the West Elm at BKSQ is finally opening:

http://www.popcitymedia.com/devnews/...ing082714.aspx

[eschaton]

That PDF is really helpful in understanding Three Crossings. It looks like it will be a discontinuous development. By the river, there will be a block with the apartments, then offices, then the Cork Factory Lawn (what is that plaza on the renderings?). The next row of blocks in, they're building structured parking bounded by Railroad, Spruce, 26th, and 27th. Then in the block bounded by Railroad, Smallman, 25th, and 26th, they were not successful in buying the J. Harris & Sons warehouse, and will be building around it.

To be perfectly honest, I think the location of the apartments and the proposed offices by the water should be flipped. It's a marginal thing, but I think the apartments would fare a bit better if they were a block closer to the action - closer to Downtown and the most active part of the Strip District. Not to mention closer to the Cork Factory, Lot 24, and Otto Milk. Together that would make around 1,000 people within a few blocks.

[AaronPGH]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Interesting article about possible changes coming with the Strip developing a lot more residential units:

http://www.pghcitypaper.com/pittsbur...wFullText=true

I wondered when that piece was coming out. Looks like they cherry-picked all my anti-development comments and threw out my pro-development ones. #media

Also, I heard that the 11th street apartments above Eleven have been canned.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by eschaton

To be perfectly honest, I think the location of the apartments and the proposed offices by the water should be flipped. It's a marginal thing, but I think the apartments would fare a bit better if they were a block closer to the action - closer to Downtown and the most active part of the Strip District. Not to mention closer to the Cork Factory, Lot 24, and Otto Milk. Together that would make around 1,000 people within a few blocks.

Given how lame the office portion looks, I'd actually prefer if both those blocks ended up residential. I'm thinking the Allegheny riverfront in the Strip could end up like London along the Thames east of the Tower Bridge, which is basically one residential development after another.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by AaronPGH

I wondered when that piece was coming out. Looks like they cherry-picked all my anti-development comments and threw out my pro-development ones. #media

Yeah, gotta have some sort of controversy to sell the story.

But even in isolation, the nightlife issue is a reasonable concern--not so much a reason to try to stop residential development in the Strip (which I wouldn't suspect you of arguing), but as reason to try to shape it to keep a vibrant nightlife scene a possibility.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by eschaton

(what is that plaza on the renderings?)

I think that is the street/plaza at 26th between the apartment building and the offices along the river. In this picture, skateboard-dude is standing in front of the southwest corner of the apartments, and we are looking across the street/plaza to the office buildings:

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by AaronPGH

I wondered when that piece was coming out. Looks like they cherry-picked all my anti-development comments and threw out my pro-development ones. #media

Also, I heard that the 11th street apartments above Eleven have been canned.

Alternate title...

Aaron Clark Hates Progress

http://www.pghcitypaper.com/pittsbur...wFullText=true

The challenges are to keep the Strip District real and authentic.

Take a stroll down Penn Avenue in the Strip District and you get the sense of a neighborhood stuck in time. Vendors and shops line the streets much like they have for the past 50 years, selling produce, fresh seafood, Steelers memorabilia and more.

But as you venture onto Penn's parallel streets closer to the river, you can't help but notice things are changing. Here, tractor trailers on their way to and from Smallman Street's produce warehouses dodge pedestrians navigating narrow, fragmented sidewalks, and residents walk their dogs along railroad tracks lined with upscale restaurants.....

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I think that is the street/plaza at 26th between the apartment building and the offices along the river. In this picture, skateboard-dude is standing in front of the southwest corner of the apartments, and we are looking across the street/plaza to the office buildings:

I don't mean that, I mean the plaza placed on the Cork Factory Lawn, which right now is just empty space dogs poop in.

[eschaton]

Maybe it's just because I'm not from Pittsburgh, but I don't understand the romanticizing of what once was the Strip.

I mean, first, the Strip District as it was 15 years ago was a product of urban renewal. It was originally a dense rowhouse neighborhood, and most of the historic buildings were knocked down as the neighborhood aligned more towards industry in the period between the 1920s and the 1960s. While some of the grander warehouses of the earlier time frame are structurally interesting, much of the remaining building stock is just ugly, along with too low-slung for a neighborhood right next to downtown.

As for the historic "vitality" - I think it's a joke. It's gotten better over the last decade, but historically Penn was super-quiet during the work day, and like a ghost town after 5. I'd sometimes try to do some shopping on my bike after getting out of work on the way back home and find nearly everything was closed. The weekend, in contrast, felt like a zoo, but due to the "park all day" lots dominating I've avoided going down there unless I was on my bike or the bus. It's like it was set up for tourists from the suburbs, not for the convenience of city residents.

Finally, I have a hard time feeling bad because it's the perfect neighborhood to "gentrify" since it had next-to-no residents until recently. Every high price apartment unit which goes into the Strip means that demand (and crazy real estate appreciation) in other nearby neighborhoods lessens slightly. And those neighborhoods have plenty of residents who are in real danger of being gentrified. I just can't feel bad for the local businesses. Tow pounds, random warehouses, trophy retailers, plumbing supply companies, and temp agencies will find somewhere else to locate. I'd suggest Washington Boulevard, 51, and 19 as logical places for businesses which do not need walkable commercial districts to locate.

[Minivan Werner]

I had no idea Three Crossings was going to have such a massive footprint. The thing's like 3 whole blocks.

Don't have an issue with the proposed garages either, since what's there now is surface parking.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I don't mean that, I mean the plaza placed on the Cork Factory Lawn, which right now is just empty space dogs poop in.

Ah, got it. When I zoom in the PDF, I see what looks like landscaping, a hardscape section, some tents/pavilions, and maybe a small playground.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by eschaton

It was originally a dense rowhouse neighborhood, and most of the historic buildings were knocked down as the neighborhood aligned more towards industry in the period between the 1920s and the 1960s.

I think Pittsburgh's early-mid-20th Century industrial period now officially counts as history, and to the extent we can preserve and present that history, it will count as cool and interesting to the increasing number of people who grew up in a more post-industrial United States.

While some of the grander warehouses of the earlier time frame are structurally interesting, much of the remaining building stock is just ugly, along with too low-slung for a neighborhood right next to downtown.

I wouldn't say every single old building must be saved, but I think it is important to note the basic logic of historic districts and contributing buildings. In historic districts, the historic buildings are not just isolated works, like old paintings displayed in a modern museum. Rather, they are in their original context and relation to each other, and even individually unexceptional buildings can contribute to that overall context.

As for the historic "vitality" - I think it's a joke. It's gotten better over the last decade, but historically Penn was super-quiet during the work day, and like a ghost town after 5.

I don't know about historically (I've only worked Downtown about five years), but these days, the Strip is very vibrant midday on work days. I sometimes walk over there during lunch, and it is packed with people. That is definitely something to appreciate and build on, even if it is relatively new.

Finally, I have a hard time feeling bad because it's the perfect neighborhood to "gentrify" since it had next-to-no residents until recently. Every high price apartment unit which goes into the Strip means that demand (and crazy real estate appreciation) in other nearby neighborhoods lessens slightly. And those neighborhoods have plenty of residents who are in real danger of being gentrified. I just can't feel bad for the local businesses. Tow pounds, random warehouses, trophy retailers, plumbing supply companies, and temp agencies will find somewhere else to locate. I'd suggest Washington Boulevard, 51, and 19 as logical places for businesses which do not need walkable commercial districts to locate.

I more or less agree, but there are in fact a lot of local businesses who can benefit from being in a walkable district. I think lots more residents won't hurt that, but I am concerned about a ton of new retail that gets filled up with chains and such.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Minivan Werner

Don't have an issue with the proposed garages either, since what's there now is surface parking.

Yep, they are a necessary evil if the Strip is going to be redeveloped, and that is as good a location as any.

[Jonboy1983]

Originally Posted by AaronPGH

I wondered when that piece was coming out. Looks like they cherry-picked all my anti-development comments and threw out my pro-development ones. #media

Also, I heard that the 11th street apartments above Eleven have been canned.

What's the deal with that if it's actually true? A) That part of the Strip could use some vertical development. B) Residential development is ideal and in huge demand, and C) How cool would it be to have a 10 or 11 story building erected on top of the Eleven restaurant? What would the address be? 1111 Eleven? Or The E11even, perhaps, and make it 15 to 20 stories...

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I think Pittsburgh's early-mid-20th Century industrial period now officially counts as history, and to the extent we can preserve and present that history, it will count as cool and interesting to the increasing number of people who grew up in a more post-industrial United States.

I didn't say there was nothing worth saving, but IMHO there's relatively little that was built after 1940 I'd be sorry to see go. I mean, if it were up for redevelopment, would you suggest saving the character of Chateau as well? It's basically all of the bad elements of the Strip, with none of the good ones remaining.

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I wouldn't say every single old building must be saved, but I think it is important to note the basic logic of historic districts and contributing buildings. In historic districts, the historic buildings are not just isolated works, like old paintings displayed in a modern museum. Rather, they are in their original context and relation to each other, and even individually unexceptional buildings can contribute to that overall context.

I dunno. When I look at this block in the strip, I might like the vibrancy on the street level, along with the business mix. But I can't ignore it's basically a faceless, one-story warehouse building that's subdivided with horrible facades. Only the two-story building at the corner is remotely worth saving.

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I don't know about historically (I've only worked Downtown about five years), but these days, the Strip is very vibrant midday on work days. I sometimes walk over there during lunch, and it is packed with people. That is definitely something to appreciate and build on, even if it is relatively new.

I think part of the issue, as I said before, is there's a big tension between the old strip customers and the new ones. Traditionally it was an area for business-to-business shopping (who could come at weird hours when parking wasn't a concern) and tourists/suburban warriors (who would park all day on Saturday/Sunday and walk around). As the Strip gets more residents, parking will get more difficult, both due to the new residents taking up spaces and the new developments meaning less by-the-day lots are available. It's basically slowly transitioning into a normal mixed-use neighborhood, which is why you're seeing more neighborhood-like retail these days like restaurants, the new bike store, the brewery, etc.

[Steel City Scotty]

Just out of curiosity - Can anyone provide photographic evidence that the demolition of the Station Square warehouse that formerly housed Matrix (and several other clubs) began this week?