YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[Johnny Aussie]

Westjet has issued a few press releases about the upcoming winter schedule.

YVR is a big winner with a plethora of new flights.

http://blog.westjet.com/winter-flight-sc...utes:winter-schedule-frequency-blog-link

http://westjet2.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=1152

Without crunching the numbers it looks like at least 7 additional flights per day.

YUL will continue nonstop year-round again.

In addition, more flights to YLW, YXS, YYZ, SJD and CUN. I had already mentioned LAX and HNL... PSP is seeing increases too but not mentioned.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by nname

Sichuan Airlines had applied for 2x weekly Chengdu-Zhengzhou-Vancouver starting October. Some of the frequency will come from reducing service on the Chengdu-Shenyang-Vancouver route. Maybe they would go for 2x weekly each?

Had or has? This is the first I've heard of it.

When you say 'some' of the frequency, I guess it's safe to assume

1X PW Chengdu-Shenyang-Vancouver
2X PW Chengdu-Zhengzhou-Vancouver

It makes a lot more sense for it to be 2X PW for both unless Shenyang is seeing a lot less demand than anticipated. As far as I can tell a Zhengzhou-Vancouver route would be their first non-asian service. Pretty interesting Vancouver would be their first destination over Sydney or something in Europe.

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Westjet has issued a few press releases about the upcoming winter schedule.

YVR is a big winner with a plethora of new flights.

http://blog.westjet.com/winter-flight-sc...utes:winter-schedule-frequency-blog-link

http://westjet2.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=1152

Without crunching the numbers it looks like at least 7 additional flights per day.

YUL will continue nonstop year-round again.

In addition, more flights to YLW, YXS, YYZ, SJD and CUN. I had already mentioned LAX and HNL... PSP is seeing increases too but not mentioned.

That is a monstrous boost. I was hoping YVR would be the net beneficiary of the reduction in Alberta demand and it seems that is happening, with WJ shifting a ton of frames over to YVR.

Would be nice if they opened up a new destination, they fly to Liberia, Costa Rica from YYC so that could be a good destination for YVR.

[nname]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Had or has? This is the first I've heard of it.

When you say 'some' of the frequency, I guess it's safe to assume

1X PW Chengdu-Shenyang-Vancouver
2X PW Chengdu-Zhengzhou-Vancouver

It makes a lot more sense for it to be 2X PW for both unless Shenyang is seeing a lot less demand than anticipated. As far as I can tell a Zhengzhou-Vancouver route would be their first non-asian service. Pretty interesting Vancouver would be their first destination over Sydney or something in Europe.

The application was posted about 12hr ago.

I think Shenyang actually have more demand than Zhengzhou, so it wouldn't make sense to cut it down to just 1x weekly. But maybe the subsidy expired? Who knows... I also heard that eventually there will be Chengdu-Vancouver non-stop, so maybe they just want to attract more passengers from different cities.

I wonder if the cut have anything to do with the frequency cap between China and Canada that Johnny mentioned before. It seems to be holding back CZ's Toronto route too...

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by nname

I think Shenyang actually have more demand than Zhengzhou, so it wouldn't make sense to cut it down to just 1x weekly. But maybe the subsidy expired? Who knows... I also heard that eventually there will be Chengdu-Vancouver non-stop, so maybe they just want to attract more passengers from different cities.

I wonder if the cut have anything to do with the frequency cap between China and Canada that Johnny mentioned before. It seems to be holding back CZ's Toronto route too...

Yeah my first thought was subsidy, would make sense then that Sichuan would chase a new subsidy in Zhengzhou with their current capacity and expand Shenyang later once the bilateral has been amended to add more flights.

Would be nice if they could get on that bilateral amendment...

[nname]

It seems to be Sichuan's strategy nowadays. Just like their Los Angeles route - instead of having non-stop or a single one-stop route, they choose to split it to Chengdu-Jinan-Los Angeles and Chengdu-Hangzhou-Los Angeles 2x weekly each, just to get more subsidy from different cities.

[Johnny Aussie]

About 40 minutes to go.

Currently just crossing the south tip of Calvert Island at FL390.

Edit: and just started its descent!

Edit: listening on live ATC will be landing 26R

Edit: final approach 26R

Edit: and touchdown!

I'm such a mega nerd.

[Johnny Aussie]

Per airlineroute.net on Twitter:

CAAC on 26JUL16 posted China Southern's application to extend Guangzhou - Vancouver to Mexico City eff Dec 2016, but website lists 3 "daily"

I sort of hinted this was coming a few weeks back.

I understand these are additional services (ie 10 weekly).

However, unsure if there will be local traffic rights on YVR-MEX. The info I received indicated YVR may only be a tech stop to MEX.

[nname]

CAAC's website said it will modify/reduce the CAN-YVR and CAN-YYZ terminator routes. It uses the China-Canada traffic right, so 10x weekly is probably unlikely...

My guess:
CAN-YYZ: 4x weekly -> 3x weekly
CAN-YVR: 7x weekly -> 5x weekly
CAN-YVR-MEX: 3x weekly

[Marshal]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

About 40 minutes to go.

Currently just crossing the south tip of Calvert Island at FL390.

Edit: and just started its descent!

Edit: listening on live ATC will be landing 26R

Edit: final approach 26R

Edit: and touchdown!

I'm such a mega nerd.

Mega nerds make the whole planet go!

[excel]

Any pictures of Xiamen???

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Per airlineroute.net on Twitter:

CAAC on 26JUL16 posted China Southern's application to extend Guangzhou - Vancouver to Mexico City eff Dec 2016, but website lists 3 "daily"

I sort of hinted this was coming a few weeks back.

I understand these are additional services (ie 10 weekly).

However, unsure if there will be local traffic rights on YVR-MEX. The info I received indicated YVR may only be a tech stop to MEX.

Originally Posted by nname

CAAC's website said it will modify/reduce the CAN-YVR and CAN-YYZ terminator routes. It uses the China-Canada traffic right, so 10x weekly is probably unlikely...

My guess:
CAN-YYZ: 4x weekly -> 3x weekly
CAN-YVR: 7x weekly -> 5x weekly
CAN-YVR-MEX: 3x weekly

This is huge news. Frequency restrictions aside it is the first big step to YVRs positioning as a gateway between Latin America and Asia. I'm sure the AC and Aeromexico flights are already seeing some boost but this is a big show by China Southern.

I would imagine any temp stepbacks of CAN-YVR would be shortlived and the route would go to 10+ when frequency caps are amended, especially if there are local traffic rights.

Now let's dream big for something in South America! I'm looking at you Air China...

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by excel

Any pictures of Xiamen???

YVR's twitter has a bunch:











https://twitter.com/yvrairport

[nname]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

I would imagine any temp stepbacks of CAN-YVR would be shortlived and the route would go to 10+ when frequency caps are amended, especially if there are local traffic rights.

Or they can send some of their A380s over to cope with the reduced frequency

[LeftCoaster]

Haha wouldn't that be something.

In reality if this starts Dec it would help them keep the 777 on the route rather than reverting to the 787-8 like they plan on doing now.

I was looking at the great circle route and it's about as close as you can be to the same distance as a direct flight, a difference of 0.3%

CAN - MEX 8,771 mi

CAN - YVR 6,351 mi
YVR - MEX 2,449 mi

8,800 mi (+0.3%)

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Haha wouldn't that be something.

In reality if this starts Dec it would help them keep the 777 on the route rather than reverting to the 787-8 like they plan on doing now.

The info I received tells me that YVR will see a mix of 788 daily and 77W 3 weekly.

Still to be confirmed but CZ somehow will be able to circumvent around the capacity/frequency cap to Canada with this route. Meaning the YVR stop on the CAN-YVR-MEX route will be tech only. So in other words no local traffic on CAN-YVR on the 77W. I guess if CZ wants in to MEX they have to stop somewhere and as Lefty pointed out YVR is ideally located on the way.

Now.... Canada and China are having discussions right now about increasing frequencies. So the above could change as fast as Melbourne's weather!

Oh and... it would be a massive coup for CZ if they could obtain local traffic rights on YVR-MEX and codeshare with AM as both Skyteam. And good timing with the visa restriction being lifted!

I'll let y'all know the outcome as soon as I hear anything.

Sounds like Hainan (and/or Tianjin) and Beijing Capital are a go though.

[nname]

The (old) bilateral info posted on CTA's website shows that China have 2 beyond rights. One is used for YUL-HAV... Maybe CZ is going for the second one if the capacity restriction is lifted?

The info on CAAC's website clearly state that they'll need to cut frequency on both YVR and YYZ routes (and they already did for YYZ, which will be launched 3x weekly instead of 4x). Is this changed already?

The same restriction was mentioned for the Sichuan's CTU-CGO-YVR application...

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by nname

The (old) bilateral info posted on CTA's website shows that China have 2 beyond rights. One is used for YUL-HAV... Maybe CZ is going for the second one if the capacity restriction is lifted?

The info on CAAC's website clearly state that they'll need to cut frequency on both YVR and YYZ routes (and they already did for YYZ, which will be launched 3x weekly instead of 4x). Is this changed already?

The same restriction was mentioned for the Sichuan's CTU-CGO-YVR application...

It is very possible CZ has re-applied for this instead of what I was told. Perhaps this is what they are going for now that the Mexican visa requirement has been lifted.

If CZ is to apply for fifth freedom traffic rights then, yes, the 7 flights per week would have to be the max. However, the original idea was to have three additional flights per week where YVR is just a pure tech stop.

The CAAC website must be referring to the "if" part. As we are all aware, the CAAC press releases can be semi inaccurate... Hence the "3 daily" versus the actual "3 weekly."

The actual outcome of this route and Canada-China bilateral in general will be known shortly along with the Tianjin, Hangzhou and Qingdao flights. So much going on! The CAAC must be overwhelmed with applications for routes all over the world.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

It is very possible CZ has re-applied for this instead of what I was told. Perhaps this is what they are going for now that the Mexican visa requirement has been lifted.

So much going on! The CAAC must be overwhelmed with applications for routes all over the world.

Exciting times for YVR!!! Wheeew!

[LeftCoaster]

Will be interesting to see where this frequency/YVR-MEX passengers thing shakes out. I'm sure it will all clear itself out over the months.

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Sounds like Hainan (and/or Tianjin) and Beijing Capital are a go though.

A go? As in falls into the existing frequency allotments and can proceed despite the perceived lack of spaces?

That would be great news. I still hope to see Tianjin fly the Tianjin route though and Hainan take an unserved city for itself (Xi'an or Shenzhen being obvious unserved choices).

[Jebby]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Haha wouldn't that be something.

In reality if this starts Dec it would help them keep the 777 on the route rather than reverting to the 787-8 like they plan on doing now.

I was looking at the great circle route and it's about as close as you can be to the same distance as a direct flight, a difference of 0.3%

CAN - MEX 8,771 mi

CAN - YVR 6,351 mi
YVR - MEX 2,449 mi

8,800 mi (+0.3%)

Do Chinese carriers have Fifth Freedom rights to fly between Canada and Mexico?

I remember as a kid when there was the NRT-YVR-MEX route with Japan Airlines. It's what we'd take every time we'd come here to Mexico for holidays. I loved travelling on JAL's 747s. Their business class was really great. My grandma still has some of their down feather mini-pillows lol