Federal Government & Politics II

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

I wonder if offering a sort of "compassionate exit" program for these people - where the government will pay for your plane ticket back home and pay off some of your outstanding debts (up to a reasonable maximum) - would ultimately be cheaper than trying to formally deport them.

Governments don't do things like this as politically it's toxic to pay people to do the right thing. We absolutely won't be deporting anybody. We don't have the ability right now. A new government could change laws and overide court obstinance but it would be a heavy lift. Many will self deport naturally.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

I wonder if offering a sort of "compassionate exit" program for these people - where the government will pay for your plane ticket back home and pay off some of your outstanding debts (up to a reasonable maximum) - would ultimately be cheaper than trying to formally deport them.

Free ride home? Sure. Paying off debts? No way.

First off, these are debts they weren't supposed to have to begin with. They lied about their financial resources to get into Canada.

Next, a lot of those debts are incurred informally through various family and social connections. Not the kind of lending that can properly be documented. So you have no real idea who owes what. So ultimately, you're just going to have offer a fixed amount to everybody to leave. The ones who are really desperate won't take it. The ones who aren't probably didn't need that money anyway.

I'm okay offering a free ticket and basically a guarantee that they won't be banned from applying in the future or visiting if they voluntarily leave.

I hate to be Machiavellian. But knowing that there are ppeople who weren't able to pay back borrowed money will help deter fake applicants in the future, and even those who would lend to them.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Governments don't do things like this as politically it's toxic to pay people to do the right thing. We absolutely won't be deporting anybody. We don't have the ability right now. A new government could change laws and overide court obstinance but it would be a heavy lift. Many will self deport naturally.

Courts are not an obstacle to deportations, they block maybe a handful a year, most deportations are not eligible for appeal (only PRs and convention refugees). It is a lack of effort by IRCC to track people down and get them out.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Courts are not an obstacle to deportations, they block maybe a handful a year, most deportations are not eligible for appeal (only PRs and convention refugees). It is a lack of effort by IRCC to track people down and get them out.

Lack of effort or lack of resources?

[Acajack]

Whatever the reason, almost no Western country really actively deports people in large numbers these days. And of course Canada is no exception.

I don't expect this to change at all under a Conservative government and agree with the posters who've said that most of the people who are in the country right now are here to stay.

I suppose some would leave if their situation got really bad, but my guess is that even a subpar situation in Canada is better than a decent situation in most of the places they are from.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Boy are you gonna be surprised when you see the biggest backlash comes from immigrant areas. There's a reason LPC support in the immigrant heavy 905 is collapsing. They are carrying most of the burden of high housing costs and suppressed wages for little gain.

There was a demonstration in Toronto on Canada Day against Canada's current immigration policies, i.e. that we are letting too many people in. (Summing up very generally.)

From the videos I saw, close to half of the faces in the crowd were from visible minorities.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I am genuinely curious how easy/difficult it is to live in Canada as an illegal. Especially if healthcare cards, SINs and visas are cancelled. It's not the US where so much can be done with cash. Life as an illegal in Canada is bound to be so much worse than the US. I do think many would eventually leave when they realize they have no real shot as an illegal.

I'm not sure it's really that hard to live in Canada as an illegal. Even relative to the US. In the US authorities are more in your face than they are in Canada, and for example police are more likely to walk up to you and talk to you, maybe ask you for your ID and status. This doesn't happen to any appreciable degree in Canada.

Not to mention ICE that patrol highways and conduct raids in workplaces and apartment buildings.

In terms of accessing public services, when it comes to healthcare it's actually not that important (at least theoretically) to a working age person, especially males. I barely used the public healthcare system at all from the age of 20 until about 45-50. Sure there is a risk but just being in any country illlegally is a risk of course. Same with stuff like driving illegally. Cops don't stop cars randomly here very often at all, so if you don't do anything stupid you're extremely unlikely to run into them.

Even roadside spotchecks for drunk driving typically don't check driver IDs.

[Truenorth00]

I have met undocs in the US who were probably millionaires with their construction businesses. In the US, it's legit possible to thrive as an illegal. Not just survive. I just can't see that in Canada. Can they continue to work crappy jobs to send home cash? Sure. But most of them aren't here for that. For whatever reason, the illegals in the US have different lifestyles and different motivations.

Put it this way. The fact that we needed to offer a pathway to PR create this student surge says it all. If that path narrows substantially the surge will recede. And a lot of the illegals with them too.

[ssiguy]

I have recently read that now some PRs and students who don't want to leave the country are applying for refugee status. Of course, they won't get it but with the endless appeals, cries of racism, "community" coming to their defense, and left-wingers crying foul, it would take untold years to kick them out costing us a small fortune in the process. Trudeau has created a system where basically there are only 2 qualification for PR and hence eventual citizenship..........an ability to fog a mirror and enough cash to buy a one-way ticket. The gov't, due to the endless bureaucracy, will never be able to get rid of these cheats no matter how much they try. The only way to do it is to hit them and their supporters where it hurts most.......in the pocketbook.

Inability to buy or sell a vehicle with an inability to get/renew car insurance and an automatic cancellation of their driver's license. For residential homeowners {where most of these PW/students live} any damage {ie fire, flood, etc} to a property that would be eligible for their insurance claim could be cancelled automatically by the insurance companies if the home was housing illegal immigrants. Any illegal would have their housing assets seized with 2 months of their VISA expiration. Illegal for an employer to rehire any illegals and anyone found doing so would be slapped with a $1,000/day fine per worker. Smaller businesses found doing the same would lose their business license for a year.


No access to ANY gov't or community services with the only exception being emergency healthcare where they will hence receive the bill at tourist rates. Require all banks to refuse any accounts with people illegally in the country and for those who already have one and their VISA expires, they have only 1 months to claim the funds or 100% are sent to either Air Canada or Westjet only to be available for use on one-way tickets back to their homeland. The ONLY exceptions for any of these rules would be for people with children where they could get extensions long enough to ensure that their children can finish their academic year and then provided an extra month to make arrangements to leave.

Such financial constraints would result in the gov't having to not lift a finger as these illegals would be desperate to get out.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I have met undocs in the US who were probably millionaires with their construction businesses. In the US, it's legit possible to thrive as an illegal. Not just survive. I just can't see that in Canada. Can they continue to work crappy jobs to send home cash? Sure. But most of them aren't here for that. For whatever reason, the illegals in the US have different lifestyles and different motivations.

Put it this way. The fact that we needed to offer a pathway to PR create this student surge says it all. If that path narrows substantially the surge will recede. And a lot of the illegals with them too.

Sure. But Canada doesn't have to offer that type of opportunity in order to offer something a lot better than where these people come from.

And of course, what you just described is not lost on the people who have come to Canada. Many of them will no doubt try and use this country as a launching pad to the US. (With varying degrees of success.)

All of which makes them more likely to stay in Canada and not go home. It's easier to access the US from Ontario than it is from Uttar Pradesh.

[Truenorth00]

Of course....

Afghan Sikh sponsors donated to Sajjan’s riding association during Kabul airlift campaign

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/poli...ncouver-south/

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Of course....



https://www.theglobeandmail.com/poli...ncouver-south/

Ça va bien...

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I'm not sure it's really that hard to live in Canada as an illegal. Even relative to the US. In the US authorities are more in your face than they are in Canada, and for example police are more likely to walk up to you and talk to you, maybe ask you for your ID and status. This doesn't happen to any appreciable degree in Canada.

Not to mention ICE that patrol highways and conduct raids in workplaces and apartment buildings.

In terms of accessing public services, when it comes to healthcare it's actually not that important (at least theoretically) to a working age person, especially males. I barely used the public healthcare system at all from the age of 20 until about 45-50. Sure there is a risk but just being in any country illlegally is a risk of course. Same with stuff like driving illegally. Cops don't stop cars randomly here very often at all, so if you don't do anything stupid you're extremely unlikely to run into them.

Even roadside spotchecks for drunk driving typically don't check driver IDs.

As Truenorth mentioned earlier, it is the cash that makes the difference in Canada. Five financial institutions control nearly all financial transactions, you can’t do much without going through them. Most stores, businesses, landlords, etc. will not transact in cash. This is different in the US or Europe where large cash transactions are common and hiring workers for cash is common.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Sure. But Canada doesn't have to offer that type of opportunity in order to offer something a lot better than where these people come from.

And of course, what you just described is not lost on the people who have come to Canada. Many of them will no doubt try and use this country as a launching pad to the US. (With varying degrees of success.)

All of which makes them more likely to stay in Canada and not go home. It's easier to access the US from Ontario than it is from Uttar Pradesh.

As already discussed though. If they simply wanted to cross into the US illegally or simply work illegally in Canada, that can come here on visit visas and do that. They isn't a large surge of people doing that. They mostly try really hard to get PR. They want real legal status and they want to get on the immigrant ladder. They don't want a lifetime as dishwashers getting paid under the table.

I think we have skewed sense of who these people are. Because we think of illegals in the US. For most of these students, if they weren't taking their shot with Canadian PR, they'd be working in the Gulf to save/make money.

[Bcasey25raptor]

whenever I ask the cons whether they'll cut the new social programs Trudeau brought in, they say they won't.

I think they're outright lying. Trust the tories to not want to dismantle this country's institutions is always unwise. This country is going to be in for a very dark period once Pierre Austerity Poilievre forms government next year

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor

whenever I ask the cons whether they'll cut the new social programs Trudeau brought in, they say they won't.

I think they're outright lying. Trust the tories to not want to dismantle this country's institutions is always unwise. This country is going to be in for a very dark period once Pierre Austerity Poilievre forms government next year

It was never sustainable to have Harper era tax rates and Trudeau era spending.

[Bcasey25raptor]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

It was never sustainable to have Harper era tax rates and Trudeau era spending.

The poor and working class will suffer under corporate elitist Poilievre and his IDU backed thugs

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor

The poor and working class will suffer under corporate elitist Poilievre and his IDU backed thugs

How are the poor and working class faring under this government with record high shelter costs and inflation not seen in decades?

They are the folks shifting right. So really shouldn't they know best what is or is not in their interest?

[Bcasey25raptor]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

How are the poor and working class faring under this government with record high shelter costs and inflation not seen in decades?

They are the folks shifting right. So really shouldn't they know best what is or is not in their interest?

I'm poor and I'm better off because of the new social programs available This is also true for most of my friends who can finally afford childcare and seeing a dentist.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by acottawa

As Truenorth mentioned earlier, it is the cash that makes the difference in Canada. Five financial institutions control nearly all financial transactions, you can’t do much without going through them. Most stores, businesses, landlords, etc. will not transact in cash. This is different in the US or Europe where large cash transactions are common and hiring workers for cash is common.

I think you'd be surprised. There are huge swaths avoiding taxes paying cash. I guess statistically the underground economy is actually larger in Canada than the US. Are banks going to close accounts when they lose status? Seems unlikely. With minimum wage now so high the incentive to undercut it also will become more alluring. If we scale down migration we will also have a worker shortage further incentivizing illegal employment.