ATLANTA | Development Thread V

[Terminus]

Originally Posted by simms3_redux

The amount of activity in the City of Atlanta isn't "small potatoes" amongst peer cities (though it's nowhere near the activity in the TX cities, CA cities, Seattle, Miami, Boston, Chicago, etc), however it's not as significant in terms of driving momentum and shifting the urban landscape because the city, and therefore the construction zones, are very spread out. If you had the level of investment you have deployed to development in Buckhead, on the Eastside, on the Westside, Downtown, and Midtown all deployed to 1 confined district, which also happened to include the existing office, residential, hotel, and retail components scattered amongst these districts, I'd be surprised if you wouldn't already have one of the most vibrant downtowns/urban districts in America.

However, even amongst these individual areas there is low density, empty lots, and too much space between transit points. Very incremental change in Atlanta as a result, no matter how much stuff goes up.

Atlanta's also a secondary market that seems to perpetually be in "recovery mode", as opposed to boom mode. The spread out nature doesn't help this fact nowadays. Hopefully the city begins to invest in more infrastructure to connect all of these nodes, and aggressively forces development around transit infrastructure while limiting new development in the suburbs.

Thank you for hitting the nail on the head. I agree 100%. It's so frustrating that even our "hot" areas are still pretty bland compared to many more centralized cities.

(I write this from Denver, which feels much bigger than Atlanta to me because it's so compact)

[TarHeelJ]

Originally Posted by simms3_redux

The amount of activity in the City of Atlanta isn't "small potatoes" amongst peer cities (though it's nowhere near the activity in the TX cities, CA cities, Seattle, Miami, Boston, Chicago, etc), however it's not as significant in terms of driving momentum and shifting the urban landscape because the city, and therefore the construction zones, are very spread out. If you had the level of investment you have deployed to development in Buckhead, on the Eastside, on the Westside, Downtown, and Midtown all deployed to 1 confined district, which also happened to include the existing office, residential, hotel, and retail components scattered amongst these districts, I'd be surprised if you wouldn't already have one of the most vibrant downtowns/urban districts in America.

However, even amongst these individual areas there is low density, empty lots, and too much space between transit points. Very incremental change in Atlanta as a result, no matter how much stuff goes up.

Atlanta's also a secondary market that seems to perpetually be in "recovery mode", as opposed to boom mode. The spread out nature doesn't help this fact nowadays. Hopefully the city begins to invest in more infrastructure to connect all of these nodes, and aggressively forces development around transit infrastructure while limiting new development in the suburbs.

Thanks for the shocking information...but don't most of the cities you listed have several spread-out development zones?

[atlantaguy]

Originally Posted by simms3_redux

Atlanta's also a secondary market that seems to perpetually be in "recovery mode", as opposed to boom mode.

Oh, how wrong you are. This last horrible almost-depression, yes. We were slammed, but are recovering nicely and things are picking up steam.

You are too young to remember, but Atlanta has traditionally been one of the last metro areas to enter a recession, and one of the first to recover from one.

The spread out nature doesn't help this fact nowadays. Hopefully the city begins to invest in more infrastructure to connect all of these nodes, and aggressively forces development around transit infrastructure while limiting new development in the suburbs.

How tired this song and dance has become. It's verifiable that the majority of new construction & investment in the last few years has been in urban nodes here. The second half of your paragraph is a sure way to kill off most Intown development. Those kinds of rules would never fly here, but you know that.

This is not the Bay Area. Nor is it D.C., Seattle, Chicago, Dallas, Houston, Boston, etc. And I am glad for that, or I wouldn't live here. Seems a couple of million others agree.

[thebigATL]

Originally Posted by Terminus

Thank you for hitting the nail on the head. I agree 100%. It's so frustrating that even our "hot" areas are still pretty bland compared to many more centralized cities.

(I write this from Denver, which feels much bigger than Atlanta to me because it's so compact)

but I think our recovery mode is next year [2015], although alot of projects will be ending this year, towards the end of the year that's when we will have big developers coming to the city to construct something, thats if the unemployment rate is down under 5% I guess

[simms3_redux]

Originally Posted by atlantaguy

Oh, how wrong you are. This last horrible almost-depression, yes. We were slammed, but are recovering nicely and things are picking up steam.

You are too young to remember, but Atlanta has traditionally been one of the last metro areas to enter a recession, and one of the first to recover from one.

I do know what you refer to, and you're right, never experienced that first hand. However, I also know that Atlanta's economy was largely based on population growth and residential real estate/construction during the 80s, 90s, and early 2000s. Clearly this has dried up given the nature of the last recession and certain macro trends now rearing their ugly little heads, which is why Atlanta was one of the first to go into recession this time around, and is one of the last to come out. I do think Atlanta is recovering nicely and seems to be shifting course, somewhat, in terms of its economy and how it perceives itself evolving in the future. That is a good sign, though IMHO too little too late if you are impatient like me.

How tired this song and dance has become. It's verifiable that the majority of new construction & investment in the last few years has been in urban nodes here. The second half of your paragraph is a sure way to kill off most Intown development. Those kinds of rules would never fly here, but you know that.

I think you're missing what I'm saying. Urban nodes (which in Atlanta are all miles apart with virtual forest and zero density in between, mostly unconnected by acceptable public transit). That's still not the same thing as confined/centralized development. And how would having one centralized, larger, more walkable urban area kill off more development in the city center? I don't get it.

This is not the Bay Area. Nor is it D.C., Seattle, Chicago, Dallas, Houston, Boston, etc. And I am glad for that, or I wouldn't live here. Seems a couple of million others agree.

Ok? Irrelevant.

Originally Posted by TarHeelJ

Thanks for the shocking information...but don't most of the cities you listed have several spread-out development zones?

TX cities, yes. But nonetheless the point I was making there was not about confinement, but about level of development in peer cities. In Boston aside from a few smaller surrounding townships, virtually all new development is in the greater downtown area, whether in the financial district, Seaport, Back Bay, or "further out" in areas like Cambridge or Longwood Medical District. Do I need to elaborate on Chicago, Seattle, the CA cities, or Miami? Miami has a ton of towers that in my opinion are drastically hostile to urban functionality, however, virtually all towers and new buildings going up are downtown. Some of the residential stuff being built there includes high-rise rentals with no parking and street level retail.

I'm not coming on here to bash Atlanta...but you guys have to be the most sensitive thread on this entire forum. Plus some folks posting here seem borderline illiterate... I was just in town, too. Got trapped because cab companies didn't even service the area I was staying in (in the perimeter). Overall a horrible visit...but I did see a lot of the construction and had an awesome meal + drinks at Top Flr

[scania]

Originally Posted by simms3_redux

The amount of activity in the City of Atlanta isn't "small potatoes" amongst peer cities (though it's nowhere near the activity in the TX cities, CA cities, Seattle, Miami, Boston, Chicago, etc), however it's not as significant in terms of driving momentum and shifting the urban landscape because the city, and therefore the construction zones, are very spread out. If you had the level of investment you have deployed to development in Buckhead, on the Eastside, on the Westside, Downtown, and Midtown all deployed to 1 confined district, which also happened to include the existing office, residential, hotel, and retail components scattered amongst these districts, I'd be surprised if you wouldn't already have one of the most vibrant downtowns/urban districts in America.

However, even amongst these individual areas there is low density, empty lots, and too much space between transit points. Very incremental change in Atlanta as a result, no matter how much stuff goes up.

Atlanta's also a secondary market that seems to perpetually be in "recovery mode", as opposed to boom mode. The spread out nature doesn't help this fact nowadays. Hopefully the city begins to invest in more infrastructure to connect all of these nodes, and aggressively forces development around transit infrastructure while limiting new development in the suburbs.

I agree and disagree...the part I disagree with is the statement about the suburbs. I'm not sure if you have a car and or venture out of the city by some means of transportation. But, cites like SF, Chicago, Boston, etc. have a ton of development outside the city. You have to keep on mind that the overall population is much higher in those other cities. It's not that Atlanta, should only have development in Atlanta, if that was the case, I personally would think Atlanta as a whole metropolis would faulter. The company I work for use to be located in Downtown, then in the 80's it moved to Buckhead, it eventually moved to Alpharetta in the late 90's. With that being said, the starting salary is around $140k, and in MOST metropolitan areas, people with kids tend to want to live in the outskirts. This isn't just an Atlanta mindset. This is true in SF, Chicago, etc. I know people tend to disagree with me, but I'm a realist. If the suburbs aren't prosperous, you won't attract businesses to the city. As a whole, and of course there are exceptions, people who make good money and have 3 or 4 kids, are not going to live in a highrise. Nor do they care to live in the heart of downtown. So I say support all development!

[Atlanta3000]

From Atlanta Business Chronicle Today - Another HUGE Announcement!!!



12th & Midtown Developers, Selig Enterprises and Daniel Corporation, are planning to break ground on TWO highrises THIS YEAR.
- The 1st highrise will be at 11th and Crescent and will contain 300 apartments.
- The 2nd highrise will be on their empty lot on Peachtree. It will contain 350 apartments and 180 condos. The highrise will be FIFTY (50) F'en Stories.

No pictures in the article unfortunately.

[Tuckerman]

[QUOTE=scania;6451831]I agree and disagree...the part I disagree with is the statement about the suburbs.

I agree with Scania. In this whole back and forth discussion I always find it a bit disingenuous mainly because it is rather useless to compare cities and urban areas head to head. Atlanta city is a small population component of a very spread out urban area and it has been that way for some time. Although there is now considerable development in the city itself, I believe this will always be a small component of the total urban picture in the ATL region. It is particularly useless to compare older, strong central core cities like Boston, SF, NYC, etc with Atlanta. One might as well contrast these older cities with Istanbul, Tokyo or Venice - makes as much sense. Obviously the metros to compare, if any, are recent high growth metros such as Houston, Dallas, Phoenix. etc. Even these comparison are limited due to the specifics of the immigration patterns, base demographics and political structures.

[micropundit]

http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/print...towers-planned-for-midtown.html?page=all


Developers are capitalizing on the growing demand for luxury, high-rise living in the city center.

Along with 77 12th Street, projects such as SkyHouse Midtown already are fetching rents of more than $2 a square foot. Cities such as New York, Washington, D.C., and San Francisco broke that threshold years ago.

It’s relatively new for Atlanta, fueled by the migration of residents back to the city. Consider that of the 12,370 apartment units under construction across metro Atlanta, roughly 70 percent are being developed inside the Perimeter, according to The Reid Report.

That is a reversal from the Atlanta’s development patterns over the 1980s and 1990s — a period dominated by the growth of suburbia.

[jpk1292000]

Originally Posted by simms3_redux

TX cities, yes. But nonetheless the point I was making there was not about confinement, but about level of development in peer cities. In Boston aside from a few smaller surrounding townships, virtually all new development is in the greater downtown area, whether in the financial district, Seaport, Back Bay, or "further out" in areas like Cambridge or Longwood Medical District. Do I need to elaborate on Chicago, Seattle, the CA cities, or Miami? Miami has a ton of towers that in my opinion are drastically hostile to urban functionality, however, virtually all towers and new buildings going up are downtown. Some of the residential stuff being built there includes high-rise rentals with no parking and street level retail.

I'm not coming on here to bash Atlanta...but you guys have to be the most sensitive thread on this entire forum. Plus some folks posting here seem borderline illiterate... I was just in town, too. Got trapped because cab companies didn't even service the area I was staying in (in the perimeter). Overall a horrible visit...but I did see a lot of the construction and had an awesome meal + drinks at Top Flr

"I'm not coming on here to bash Atlanta"

Have you even read your own posts?

[AtlantaMustang]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

12th & Midtown Developers, Selig Enterprises and Daniel Corporation, are planning to break ground on TWO highrises THIS YEAR. - The 1st highrise will be at 11th and Crescent and will contain 300 apartments.

Great news. Let's hope they hit a home run with the street level as they have been doing. They've really transformed this part of midtown.

[1lifealex]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

From Atlanta Business Chronicle Today - Another HUGE Announcement!!!



12th & Midtown Developers, Selig Enterprises and Daniel Corporation, are planning to break ground on TWO highrises THIS YEAR.
- The 1st highrise will be at 11th and Crescent and will contain 300 apartments.
- The 2nd highrise will be on their empty lot on Peachtree. It will contain 350 apartments and 180 condos. The highrise will be FIFTY (50) F'en Stories.

No pictures in the article unfortunately.

Here is the link http://m.bizjournals.com/atlanta/print-e...w-towers-planned-for-midtown.html?r=full

[Newnan_Eric]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

From Atlanta Business Chronicle Today - Another HUGE Announcement!!!



12th & Midtown Developers, Selig Enterprises and Daniel Corporation, are planning to break ground on TWO highrises THIS YEAR.
- The 1st highrise will be at 11th and Crescent and will contain 300 apartments.
- The 2nd highrise will be on their empty lot on Peachtree. It will contain 350 apartments and 180 condos. The highrise will be FIFTY (50) F'en Stories.

No pictures in the article unfortunately.

I am concerned about all these apartments. I posted in the Transit thread on the Atlanta group of threads, that there are over 8,500 units being built or proposed near MARTA stops. That's before this announcement. I don't think we'll see all of these come to fruition.

Are we in an Apartment bubble?

[tdawg]

From today's AJC:

State Farm to headline massive project near Perimeter Mall


By J. Scott Trubey

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Insurance giant State Farm and a major developer outlined plans for a massive mixed-use complex Friday near Perimeter Mall that will serve as a major operations center for the insurer and rank among the largest real estate projects announced in metro Atlanta since the Great Recession.

Developer KDC said it plans to turn 17 acres along Hammond Drive near the Dunwoody MARTA station into a development including retail, multiple office towers and a 200-room hotel. The planned 2 million-plus square-foot development would rival the sprawling Concourse office complex – with its iconic King and Queen buildings – in terms of total office space.

Illinois-based State Farm, which in the past year has started moving thousands of staffers into several office buildings in the Central Perimeter area, will be the development’s first tenant. State Farm last year said it would develop a national operations center in Dunwoody.

State Farm said Friday it has about 5,000 employees in metro Atlanta and expects to have 8,000 employees in the region “in the coming years.” State Farm is consolidating many of its functions in metro Atlanta, Phoenix and the Dallas area, and the insurer said its operations in metro Atlanta will be staffed by current employees as well as new hires.

State Farm said it would lease the project’s first building on a four-acre property currently home to a Chequer’s Seafood Grill restaurant. Construction is expected to begin this summer, the insurer and KDC said. State Farm previously acquired the adjacent 10-story Hammond Exchange building and 13 acres of undeveloped land around it.

In August, the property and casualty insurer announced it was selling property in Johns Creek, where it has customer service, operations and support staff. The two buildings house 2,000 employees. The company said it planned to lease the property back from the eventual purchaser for 10 years. State Farm also leased a large chunk of space in the nearby Terraces office park. In 2012, the company signed a lease agreement for 64 and 66 Perimeter Center East.

Other major developers are also looking to redevelop property in Perimeter Mall area. Houston development firm Hines announced plans last March to build 100 Northpark on 16 acres at Abernathy Road and Ga. 400 near the Sandy Springs MARTA station.

[ATL_J]

Originally Posted by Newnan_Eric

I am concerned about all these apartments. I posted in the Transit thread on the Atlanta group of threads, that there are over 8,500 units being built or proposed near MARTA stops. That's before this announcement. I don't think we'll see all of these come to fruition.

Are we in an Apartment bubble?

As someone who just recently moved from one rental to another and had experienced looking, I can say with confidence they continue to build these units because there is a strong demand for them. My experience is in the VaHi / O4W area, but rents are higher than ever and all the complexes are not having an issue filling the units at those high rents. The towers in Midtown have also seemed to have no issue filling up.

I wanted to lease a one bedroom in a condo, but anything decent that was priced appropriately flew off the market within days of being listed. I couldn't even go see the unit in time - it seemed most were signing leases sight unseen. Where I was living was an older apartment building, no amenities, etc. and they've increased rent every year and they're at practically 100% capacity. I haven't even moved out of my unit and it's been rented, and it's rather expensive and not nice.

The demand to live in town in walkable, vibrant neighborhoods is just that great. Even when all these units go up the developers didn't build these units assuming they'll have close to 100% capacity at "best case scenario" rents (which is what they're getting now). So even when the supply catches up with demand, I don't see it "bursting" but rather tapering off.

[ATL_J]

Originally Posted by tdawg

From today's AJC:

State Farm to headline massive project near Perimeter Mall


By J. Scott Trubey

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Insurance giant State Farm and a major developer outlined plans for a massive mixed-use complex Friday near Perimeter Mall that will serve as a major operations center for the insurer and rank among the largest real estate projects announced in metro Atlanta since the Great Recession.

Developer KDC said it plans to turn 17 acres along Hammond Drive near the Dunwoody MARTA station into a development including retail, multiple office towers and a 200-room hotel. The planned 2 million-plus square-foot development would rival the sprawling Concourse office complex – with its iconic King and Queen buildings – in terms of total office space.

Illinois-based State Farm, which in the past year has started moving thousands of staffers into several office buildings in the Central Perimeter area, will be the development’s first tenant. State Farm last year said it would develop a national operations center in Dunwoody.

State Farm said Friday it has about 5,000 employees in metro Atlanta and expects to have 8,000 employees in the region “in the coming years.” State Farm is consolidating many of its functions in metro Atlanta, Phoenix and the Dallas area, and the insurer said its operations in metro Atlanta will be staffed by current employees as well as new hires.

State Farm said it would lease the project’s first building on a four-acre property currently home to a Chequer’s Seafood Grill restaurant. Construction is expected to begin this summer, the insurer and KDC said. State Farm previously acquired the adjacent 10-story Hammond Exchange building and 13 acres of undeveloped land around it.

In August, the property and casualty insurer announced it was selling property in Johns Creek, where it has customer service, operations and support staff. The two buildings house 2,000 employees. The company said it planned to lease the property back from the eventual purchaser for 10 years. State Farm also leased a large chunk of space in the nearby Terraces office park. In 2012, the company signed a lease agreement for 64 and 66 Perimeter Center East.

Other major developers are also looking to redevelop property in Perimeter Mall area. Houston development firm Hines announced plans last March to build 100 Northpark on 16 acres at Abernathy Road and Ga. 400 near the Sandy Springs MARTA station.

I've seen these renderings!

Should things go according to plan, the tower will also have access to the nearby MARTA staiton which is neat.

[atlantaguy]

Originally Posted by simms3_redux

I'm not coming on here to bash Atlanta...but you guys have to be the most sensitive thread on this entire forum. Plus some folks posting here seem borderline illiterate... I was just in town, too. Got trapped because cab companies didn't even service the area I was staying in (in the perimeter). Overall a horrible visit...but I did see a lot of the construction and had an awesome meal + drinks at Top Flr

Oh, but you are and do - every single post you make has a snarky remark and some sort of dig at Atlanta. Every single post.

I'm not entirely convinced the most 'borderline illiterate' poster isn't you or some other troll posting things to 'stir the pot.'

And as far as cabs not servicing the Perimeter, that is simply a lie. I'm sure you decided your visit would be horrible before you even left San Francisco.

[thebigATL]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

From Atlanta Business Chronicle Today - Another HUGE Announcement!!!



12th & Midtown Developers, Selig Enterprises and Daniel Corporation, are planning to break ground on TWO highrises THIS YEAR.
- The 1st highrise will be at 11th and Crescent and will contain 300 apartments.
- The 2nd highrise will be on their empty lot on Peachtree. It will contain 350 apartments and 180 condos. The highrise will be FIFTY (50) F'en Stories.

No pictures in the article unfortunately.

This is great we got atleast 6 tower proposals!!!! OVER 50+ Stories, I told you guys we will have some!!! Some you said 2 years from now, but look!!!
98 14 st: 39,57,60
1138 peachtree: 51 stories
12 mid town project: 2, 50 stories
_____________________________________
Great News:
_____________________________________

Introducing: The (Hypothetical) MARTA Greenline Loop!



The old wives' tale is true: Cabin fever breeds mad genius! Cooped up by Atlanta On Ice 2014, one bored reader got creative and illustrated an idea that could be logistically impossible but is nonetheless compelling: The MARTA Greenline Loop. The visionary describes the design as "the cabin-fevered dream of a snowbound Atlantan who'd like to go from Decatur to the Westside on a train."

This U-shaped heavy rail extension would boomerang passengers from Bankhead to the Arts Center station, providing much-need transit relief on the Howell Mill Road corridor. It would unfortunately bypass Georgia Tech, and there doesn't seem to be a Monday Night Brewing station, which kind of stinks. On the bright side, the extension would supply the Atlantic Station-Midtown link that many have pined for. This idea comes on a week when MARTA's head honcho said the system could be twice as large, if only funding would materialize. What say you? Should we start a Greenline Loop collection plate, or is this concept riddled with tragic flaws?


Marta is doing the big things out here.....


Maybe its time for Atlanta To BOOM"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Next thing you know We will have a huge office tower proposal : Downtown or Midtown

[thebigATL]

Originally Posted by atlantaguy

Oh, but you are and do - every single post you make has a snarky remark and some sort of dig at Atlanta. Every single post.

I'm not entirely convinced the most 'borderline illiterate' poster isn't you or some other troll posting things to 'stir the pot.'

And as far as cabs not servicing the Perimeter, that is simply a lie. I'm sure you decided your visit would be horrible before you even left San Francisco.

I thought I was the only one realizing that lol

[testarossa50]

Originally Posted by simms3_redux

I was just in town, too. Got trapped because cab companies didn't even service the area I was staying in (in the perimeter). Overall a horrible visit...but I did see a lot of the construction and had an awesome meal + drinks at Top Flr

Um, you mean you don't use Uber yet? This isn't the 2000s anymore...cabs are obsolete.