City of Hamilton General Discussion Thread

[Hawrylyshyn]

Andrea needs more tax-paid trips to Italy

[Innsertnamehere]

over 30% of that increase is a result of increased interest on debt, apparently. Not much can be done about it:



A lot of it is going to "healthy and safe communities" as well - whatever that means. Money to respond to homelessness?

I fully expect the actual increase to be much lower than this - but I still wouldn't be surprised to see it at 9% or something like that. 4.5% alone is needed to service the debt.

[TheRitsman]

If it means the city continues to not fall apart, I'm fine with it. 9% even would mean an extra $30/month. My hope is that the city gets it's shit together under this new council and is able to reduce the overbuilt infrastructure and attract new tax revenue into the city, as well as audit things like poor road contractors to ensure that the city has a stable budget in future years.

They could also review doing similar things to Toronto, though I know Toronto has special powers.

[TheHonestMaple]

Originally Posted by TheRitsman

If it means the city continues to not fall apart, I'm fine with it. 9% even would mean an extra $30/month. My hope is that the city gets it's shit together under this new council and is able to reduce the overbuilt infrastructure and attract new tax revenue into the city, as well as audit things like poor road contractors to ensure that the city has a stable budget in future years.

They could also review doing similar things to Toronto, though I know Toronto has special powers.

The problem is the vast majority of the increase has nothing to do with increasing service. Most of the increase is actually just increasing city employees salaries. Take a look at the document. We should all be enraged with this increase.

[craftbeerdad]

Could someone post the link or just tell me where this is found? I'd like to take a deeper look into a few categories, please and thank you.

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by TheRitsman

If it means the city continues to not fall apart, I'm fine with it. 9% even would mean an extra $30/month. My hope is that the city gets it's shit together under this new council and is able to reduce the overbuilt infrastructure and attract new tax revenue into the city, as well as audit things like poor road contractors to ensure that the city has a stable budget in future years.

They could also review doing similar things to Toronto, though I know Toronto has special powers.

Toronto is propped up by land transfer taxes, which other municipalities can't use. It generated over half a billion for the City last year, and honestly I'm thankful Hamilton doesn't have it. Land Transfer taxes only hurt housing affordability and that revenue is better generated from property taxes.

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by TheHonestMaple

The problem is the vast majority of the increase has nothing to do with increasing service. Most of the increase is actually just increasing city employees salaries. Take a look at the document. We should all be enraged with this increase.

did you look at the diagram I posted? Much of it is debt servicing costs. People's mortgages aren't the only debt seeing increase payments.

Salaries are increasing yes, but municipal employees are on fixed wage contracts. compared to inflation wages are down significantly for municipal staff over pre-covid - the next few years of above-inflation increases are mostly just going to catch labour costs up to inflation.

All municipalities in Ontario are facing huge tax increase pressures right now.

[ScreamingViking]

Previous councils were SO focused on limiting increases. Now the piper has come asking for -- no, DEMANDING -- payment, financing costs aside.

"Healthy and safe communities." Hamilton... the best place to pitch a tent.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

All municipalities in Ontario are facing huge tax increase pressures right now.

Cities all across Canada are in dire need of help from the provinces and the feds.

[TheRitsman]

Employees of the city deserve a fair wage, and it's been mentioned here or elsewhere, but talent has been poached by nearby cities from Hamilton and we've lost great staff as a result. If we want talented people at the helm, we need to pay fairly, both in management and the lower ranked employees.

[TheHonestMaple]

Originally Posted by TheRitsman

Employees of the city deserve a fair wage, and it's been mentioned here or elsewhere, but talent has been poached by nearby cities from Hamilton and we've lost great staff as a result. If we want talented people at the helm, we need to pay fairly, both in management and the lower ranked employees.

I have no issues with people getting a fair wage, the problem is these are not fair wages. Look at the sunshine list man, more fat cats at the city of hamilton than any other municipality in the province. We pay the highest taxes of any other city in the province on average, and look at our infrastructure. Stop covering for these people, and start questioning where your money is going.

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by TheHonestMaple

I have no issues with people getting a fair wage, the problem is these are not fair wages. Look at the sunshine list man, more fat cats at the city of hamilton than any other municipality in the province. We pay the highest taxes of any other city in the province on average, and look at our infrastructure. Stop covering for these people, and start questioning where your money is going.

$100k for a mid-career, educated job is not "fat cat" money any more. If the sunshine list had kept up with inflation from when it was introduced in 1996, the cutoff would be 178k today. If it had kept up with wage growth during that period... it'd be north of 200k.

Hamiltons taxes are high not because of government waste but because it's tax base is shit. To many low valued properties in Hamilton and not enough commercial land. Reassessment, whenever the PCs get around to doing it (now 8 years since the last one), should help as a lot of historically very-low assessment value properties in the city have skyrocketed in value since 2016.

[TheHonestMaple]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

$100k for a mid-career, educated job is not "fat cat" money any more. If the sunshine list had kept up with inflation from when it was introduced in 1996, the cutoff would be 178k today. If it had kept up with wage growth during that period... it'd be north of 200k.

Hamiltons taxes are high not because of government waste but because it's tax base is shit. To many low valued properties in Hamilton and not enough commercial land. Reassessment, whenever the PCs get around to doing it (now 8 years since the last one), should help as a lot of historically very-low assessment value properties in the city have skyrocketed in value since 2016.

I don't disagree with anything you said. But if the city doesn't have the revenue to support these wages, then they shouldn't be paying them. Cut down on waste, and make it work with the money they have. A 14% increase on already astronomically high property taxes is completely absurd and out of check with reality. There's a reason why most of these councillors wouldn't last a minute in the private sector.

What I know is going to happen though, they're putting this 14% figure out there now so when they somehow manage to get it down to 9 or 10% it looks like we're getting a good deal. When in reality even 9% is crazy.

I've always believed in fiscal conservatism. The left wing spend-spend-spend city council we have is going to run this city into the ground.

[ScreamingViking]

It's also an issue of past city councils that didn't have the balls to take care of some things. A 3% hike back then rather than forcing 2% may have gone a ways toward making things easier now. Though the current staff are also being squeezed by EVERYTHING being more expensive and less tax and development fee revenue.

It's a complex issue. Blaming it on salaries is simplistic, IMO.

[TheHonestMaple]

To be fair, most of the salaries are increases due to union negotiations I believe.

You're right though, it's mismanagement from years and years of neglect. One thing the city could do to increase tax revenue is greenlight all of these damn condo applications we've seen, instead - it's red tape and bureaucracy. Entrepreneurs want to build, the city wants to cause problems for them for no apparent reason.

A modest increase to taxes, and finding efficiencies is what this city needs to do. I hope they have the courage to do it. Lots of useless social programs could be cut. The city needs to get back to its principal mandate, which is maintaining infrastructure.

[TheRitsman]

Originally Posted by TheHonestMaple

To be fair, most of the salaries are increases due to union negotiations I believe.

You're right though, it's mismanagement from years and years of neglect. One thing the city could do to increase tax revenue is greenlight all of these damn condo applications we've seen, instead - it's red tape and bureaucracy. Entrepreneurs want to build, the city wants to cause problems for them for no apparent reason.

A modest increase to taxes, and finding efficiencies is what this city needs to do. I hope they have the courage to do it. Lots of useless social programs could be cut. The city needs to get back to its principal mandate, which is maintaining infrastructure.

I'd be curious which social programs are useless? Hamilton already lacks many programs both social and recreational that other municipalities have. Out of the cities myself and my partner have lives in and our friends have lived in, Hamilton has some of the least recreational and programs for families and people living in the city.

[drpgq]

I'm curious when the next election rolls around what the blowback will be. I also didn't know we had that much debt to cause such problems.

[ShavedParmesanCheese]

It's not strictly debt, Ontarian municipalities are not allowed to go into the red.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by drpgq

I'm curious when the next election rolls around what the blowback will be. I also didn't know we had that much debt to cause such problems.

Municipalities aren't allowed to carry financial debt.

So they carry "infrastructure" debt... and are forced to do things like support a level of social services below average requirements (and some may say it's below "basic" requirements)

Some of this may be due to mismanagement. But a lot is also due to downloading. We're still dealing with the stuff the feds downloaded onto the provinces in the 1990s to balance their books, and then the provinces did the same to their municipal "children" That and a changing economy that has hugely affected the tax bases of older cities like Hamilton.

I had a prof in university in the early 1990s that was very critical of the fact Canada has no national urban strategy or policy. His points are still valid today. We don't even have a provincial one! There are policies, yeah, but organized coherently? Ha.

[TheHonestMaple]

Originally Posted by drpgq

I'm curious when the next election rolls around what the blowback will be. I also didn't know we had that much debt to cause such problems.

Between this and the whole North End debacle, expect Kroetsch to be a one term councillor. No doubt.