West Gatineau LRT & Downtown Loop | Proposed

[GradualFuture]

Originally Posted by caboose

There's an interprovincial bridge thread here: https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/sho....php?p=8970829

Great, Conductor, freel free to direct your pie in the sky Alymer-Kanata bridge link which somehow includes a rational to run Gatineau LRT across it to that thread.

[The Conductor]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

It looks a lot like MP Greg Fergus' plan. End of the day, it's the municipality that makes the decisions, but he could have influence on the project.

Greg has done an EXCELLENT job of promoting the O-Train in Gatineau. I would like to see it keep the same name, but change the iconic "O" from red to green on the Gatineau side

[caboose]

Originally Posted by The Conductor

Greg has done an EXCELLENT job of promoting the O-Train in Gatineau. I would like to see it keep the same name, but change the iconic "O" from red to green on the Gatineau side

Green is the colour of the Trillium Line. I would make it purple. I agree that there should be a unified look for both transit networks.

[The Conductor]

Originally Posted by caboose

Green is the colour of the Trillium Line. I would make it purple. I agree that there should be a unified look for both transit networks.

My mistake, I forgot that green is already going in service, so purple would work with the iconic "O" in purple at each station!

[Hybrid247]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Why would they have done that?

There's never been any plan to interline. So it's extra capital costs for no justifiable reason.

I get that. I'm just saying maybe it should've been considered. The current planning horizon is only 10 years away. Switching to low-floor could've added flexibility and future-proofed the line, like what they did with C-line. Current work involves ripping up tracks, adding new stations and upgrading existing stations. I don't think it would've made a huge difference to the capital cost of the project to switch to low-floor, aside from buying a few more trainsets to replace the LINTs. Battery-powered trains could've been looked at since electrification wasn't within the project scope.

It's a moot point now, though, since Stage 2 is well underway.

[The Conductor]

Originally Posted by Hybrid247

I don't think it would've made a huge difference to the capital cost of the project to switch to low-floor, aside from buying a few more trainsets to replace the LINTs. Battery-powered trains could've been looked at since electrification wasn't within the project scope.

Planning is always the issue and expanding the circle of listening in order to develop the best service you can

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Hybrid247

The current planning horizon is only 10 years away.

Huh? It was my belief that they think there's sufficient capacity till at least 2040 on the Trillium Line. Correct me if I'm wrong. Any interlining was always going to be beyond that. They can always rebuild platforms when they get around to twinning and electrifying.

[Hybrid247]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Huh? It was my belief that they think there's sufficient capacity till at least 2040 on the Trillium Line.

There is. I was referring to the TMP and the fact that there are no plans that I'm aware of to eventually extend T-line further than Bayview, since the PoW extension is now dead.

Correct me if I'm wrong. Any interlining was always going to be beyond that. They can always rebuild platforms when they get around to twinning and electrifying.

That's what I mean. Had they actually considered interlining and an eventual extension into downtown as a possibility beyond 2031 as part of the new upcoming TMP, a potential switch to low-floor probably would've been part of the Stage 2 planning scope. Switching to low-floor 20-30 years from now will cause a major disruption and will cost far more than it would have as part of Stage 2.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Hybrid247

There is. I was referring to the TMP and the fact that there are no plans that I'm aware of to eventually extend T-line further than Bayview, since the PoW extension is now dead.

I wouldn't write off crossing the river. Just not in any realistic timeframe. Eventually, they'll convert the Rapibus Corridor to rail. When it happens, connecting to Trillium will be obvious. Admittedly a 2050+ idea.

Originally Posted by Hybrid247

That's what I mean. Had they actually considered interlining and an eventual extension into downtown as a possibility beyond 2031 as part of the new upcoming TMP, a potential switch to low-floor probably would've been part of the Stage 2 planning scope. Switching to low-floor 20-30 years from now will cause a major disruption and will cost far more than it would have as part of Stage 2.

Rebuilding platforms can be done within 6 months. I don't think it'd be super disruptive. And if they're going with twinning and electrification, might as well save it for then. I suspect that it's just easier and cheaper to take high-floor this time because of heavy rail options. In 25 years, this fleet will be end of life. Confederation Line will be in Barrhaven then (reducing the impact of a shutdown). And it is entirely possible that they could twin, electrify and modify the platforms in 6 months while getting a new LRT fleet that is also common with the Confederation Line then.

[The Conductor]

Originally Posted by Horus

Unless there is better coordination between Ottawa and Gatineau, Ontario and Quebec, (NCC and reality), I would expect it would be very unlikely that a proposed STO LRT route would go anywhere but the shortest route requiring the least effort once it crosses the river.

Well so far the plans and discussion has been pretty good at an attempt at future proofing

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Gatineau doesn't want to contribute anything?

Ballsy.

My hopes for this project just went down.

Montréal (REM and I believe the Blue Line) and Québec City are getting new lines/extension 100% funded by upper-level governments and the Caisse, so Gatineau expects the same, and rightly so.

This is the same reasoning Ottawa has with Stage 3, since TO and most of the GTA get extensive transit expansions on the Province and Fed's dime.

[Gat-Train]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Be careful. You'll get called an "alt-right troll" who supports "Big Oil" for not supporting subways everywhere....

In his world, Paris would have subpar transit because they insist on building tramways in their suburban areas. And their suburbs are denser than anything in the NCR:

• Video Link

In his world cities with no subways, only using LRT, like Bordeaux or Málaga have poor public transit. Imagine being from Gatineau and legitimately believing this.

Trams in the suburbs are fine. We're talking about the downtown core, right in front of the Parliament buildings.

[caboose]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Montréal (REM and I believe the Blue Line) and Québec City are getting new lines/extension 100% funded by upper-level governments and the Caisse, so Gatineau expects the same, and rightly so.

This is the same reasoning Ottawa has with Stage 3, since TO and most of the GTA get extensive transit expansions on the Province and Fed's dime.

The Ottawa portion of Gatineau Tram needs to be paid for by the federal government, not Quebec, la Caisse or Gatineau.

[The Conductor]

Originally Posted by caboose

The Ottawa portion of Gatineau Tram needs to be paid for by the federal government, not Quebec, la Caisse or Gatineau.

agree 100%

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Montréal (REM and I believe the Blue Line) and Québec City are getting new lines/extension 100% funded by upper-level governments and the Caisse, so Gatineau expects the same, and rightly so.

This is the same reasoning Ottawa has with Stage 3, since TO and most of the GTA get extensive transit expansions on the Province and Fed's dime.

I was just gonna say this. BTW initial phase of Rapibus was 75 Quebec and 25 Gatineau. The feds are in there for an eastward extension to Lorrain but that is not megabucks.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Montréal (REM and I believe the Blue Line) and Québec City are getting new lines/extension 100% funded by upper-level governments and the Caisse, so Gatineau expects the same, and rightly so.

I'd be less confident about promises made pre-Covid.

Originally Posted by J.OT13

This is the same reasoning Ottawa has with Stage 3, since TO and most of the GTA get extensive transit expansions on the Province and Fed's dime.

Ottawa has taken on billions in new debt for Stage 1 and Stage 2. That's why it's asking for Stage 3 to be fully funded by Queen's Park and the Feds. Not nearly comparable.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Gat-Train

Trams in the suburbs are fine. We're talking about the downtown core, right in front of the Parliament buildings.

What Paris calls "suburbs" is more dense than downtown Gatineau. They aren't subdivisions filled with McMansions. The idea that only grade separated transit is built in world class cities is totally bunk. They build what is appropriate. And they don't overbuild, which is what let's them build more subways where warranted. Heck, the backbone of most large European cities isn't even the subway network. It's suburban rail. The kind that our friends here would deride. Paris' RER. S-Bahn in Vienna, Munich, Zurich, etc.

I agree with the the Sparks tunnel. I've said that before. If only because the risk of disruption is too great on Wellington.

[Gat-Train]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

What Paris calls "suburbs" is more dense than downtown Gatineau. They aren't subdivisions filled with McMansions. The idea that only grade separated transit is built in world class cities is totally bunk. They build what is appropriate. And they don't overbuild, which is what let's them build more subways where warranted. Heck, the backbone of most large European cities isn't even the subway network. It's suburban rail. The kind that our friends here would deride. Paris' RER. S-Bahn in Vienna, Munich, Zurich, etc.

I agree with the the Sparks tunnel. I've said that before. If only because the risk of disruption is too great on Wellington.

Because of this awful reasoning, our city planners have decried that the LRT will run on an elevated guideway through the ass end of Stittsville, while Bank Street chokes on diesel fumes from buses creeping through that traffic sewer at 10 km/h.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Gat-Train

Because of this awful reasoning, our city planners have decried that the LRT will run on an elevated guideway through the ass end of Stittsville, while Bank Street chokes on diesel fumes from buses creeping through that traffic sewer at 10 km/h.

Don't want to go off-topic so I've replied in the Bank St. subway thread.

On the Gatineau LRT, this is a legitimate concern on Wellington. It's not just some regular avenue. It's part of a public space that routinely sees traffic closures for pedestrian use. There's also a ton of security implications. It's just safer and easier to bury it in the core. Also this plan is not that unusual. Metrolinx is doing the same with the Eglinton LRT in Toronto.

[Hybrid247]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Rebuilding platforms can be done within 6 months. I don't think it'd be super disruptive.

Really? I'm no expert in construction, but I feel like removing and rebuilding the platforms on the entire line would be a huge job, especially for some of the more elaborate stations like Limebank. At this point, I assumed that they would simply go with high floor LRT once they electrify the line.