WINSTON-SALEM | Development Guide

[WSBornNBred]

Agreed with your thoughts on the Inmar building, Matthew. I think we'd all rather see a new build to jump start Phase II, but there are positives to the Inmar building. The fact that it is much closer to the Bailey Power Plant and the rest of downtown is obviously the primary positive. I would assume it would also be a quicker project, and certificates of occupancy would be granted much sooner than a new build. So, more people downtown sooner - this is a good thing.

If the Inmar building does happen, we need to revisit all of the angst from the old board when "Wake Forest" came off Innovation Quarter brand. If you would have told us then that a few years later, WFUHS would have bought the medical school building and opened a world class eye care center in the Inmar building, we would have been thrilled (and, of course, without the benefit of foresight, would be asking "what happened to Inmar??").

[DCMetroRaleigh]

Matthew, your post says Byrum should be under construction by fall 2023. Do you have recent information about that scheduled start because in the spring, developers indicated construction on the project would not begin this year because of market conditions?

https://www.bizjournals.com/triad/news/2023/05/02/byrum-chaucer-creek-apartments-winston-salem.html

[sugar1]

How does one delete a post?

[sugar1]

@ Jim Monroe
RJR Servants Quarters & Garage Lost:
Not much remains of the old Fifth Street Millionaires Row. This servants house/garage and Spring House Restaurant were really all that remained of the old Fifth Street Millionaires Row, east of Broad Street. The RJR House was demolished for the library many years ago. The churches were the first to replace some of the old houses in the 1920s and then Bell South built a tall Art Deco building there. It has only accelerated until Fifth Street, east of Broad Street, now only has one house remaining (Spring House Restaurant). I think Centenary United Methodist Church has demolished the most on this stretch of Millionaires Row, including this structure. If they need so much room, instead of demolishing anything they can get their hands on, maybe they need to consider going vertical or moving to the suburbs? I love the good the churches do for downtown, but wish they wouldn't destroy so much of the historic neighborhoods around them.


This building is where my BSA troop used to meet 40 years ago.

[sugar1]

How does one delete a post?

[LynnAikens]

Originally Posted by zalo

I guess it was foolish to think that you would leave at least a portion of the overwhelming negativity buried at the old WSTB site….

I guess you can include me with some negativity when it comes to this project. I agree with every word he said. Yadkin did/have made some great points. When you look at what AHWBH is building in Charlotte and what they have planned for Winston-Salem, one can't help but be disappointed. Winston-Salem is a very nice town regardless of how the DOT, AHWBH, and others have/are treating us. So, telling the truth is not negative but positive. We get better we need first to identify what the problem is and stop pretending that this is not happening to us. It does seem that most of what is born and grow up in Winston moves to some other city. That is a fact. Yadkin is being truthful in my opinion.

[Matthew]

I think only a moderator can delete posts here? The old WSTB gave everyone some abilities that are usually reserved for moderators.

According to the source for the rendering (source is working directly on The Byrum project), construction on The Byrum Apartments will start in Fall 2023. I've seen other sources working directly on the project say Fall 2023 or early-2024. That is likely site demolition and not foundation work? I guess we shall see what happens. If AHWFB would announce the Eye Institute selecting a site almost right at The Byrum site, I'm guessing they would quickly want to start, to take advantage of the researchers and students who will move into that space and may want to live downtown. A bike and walking path, across the street, connects the two (it's a fast bike ride between them!) and both projects should bring more bike and foot traffic to that path.

It seems as if young people who are born in Winston-Salem love the city and are increasingly proud of it. Older people who are born in Winston-Salem remember when it had more headquarters, taller buildings, more banking assets, and more wealth than Charlotte and was larger than Raleigh. Many of them remember when Winston-Salem had a taller building than Atlanta. They think since the city isn't up there with Charlotte and discussed in the same circles as Atlanta, it's now down-and-out. People who move to Winston-Salem from other cities love Winston-Salem and if they move, they often want to return to Winston-Salem. Visit Winston-Salem's day-trip and three-day weekend vacation ads often lead to visitors moving here. Charlotte, Raleigh, and New York City are now the top places people move to Winston-Salem from, largely due to those weekend day-trip or three-day weekend ads. People who move to Winston-Salem from other countries often encourage their entire family to move here. It's a small city that looks mid-sized and has many mid-sized or larger amenities. It also out-performs most of its peers, which is really what we should be looking at. How is Winston-Salem doing compared to its peers and next-step-up cities.

I don't think we will ever convince many of those older residents who were born here that this city is doing amazing things right now. Winston-Salem (by UA, which this forum often uses to measure city size) is roughly the same size as Augusta, Georgia and Pensacola, Florida. However, we are discussing a new 250,000 square-foot eye institute that will be a research hub for one of the nation's largest multi-state healthcare systems. Right now, construction of a 280,000 square-foot eye institute (total size of the entire eye institute after completion) is a hot topic in Cleveland, Ohio. We are discussing a Neuroscience Research Center as one of the exciting new proposals for Winston-Salem. Another hot construction topic in Cleveland, where they are planning a neuroscience research center, and I think one is nearing completion in St. Louis. My wife, who is from Seattle, showed me their neuroscience research center in Seattle a while back, while visiting family. These are projects built in cities several times larger than Winston-Salem. These are being built in downtown Winston-Salem, too! You don't usually see projects like this in cities of Winston-Salem's size. That is part of the reason this is a "big little city" type of place that combines big city amenities and big city appearance with the upside of a smaller city.

By moving to the former Inmar space, the Eye Institute will actually be a larger project. Before the Pandemic, Winston-Salem was the leading city among its peer group, according to Greater Winston-Salem. Currently, Winston-Salem is second only to Savannah (is experiencing an automotive manufacturing and port boom) in its peer group and Winston-Salem actually competed against Savannah for a North American headquarters and won! I think both headquarters Greater Winston-Salem was trying to attract selected Winston-Salem.

[DCMetroRaleigh]

Matthew, thanks for clarifying on Byrum. What is going on with the apartment project across from the Ballpark and the Easley? It seems other downtown residential projects are moving fast, while this one is dormant despite being announced much earlier.

[Matthew]

It's interesting to see that project brought-up. As part of trying to find updates on as many projects we haven't heard from in a while as possible, I started looking into Brookhyrst Apartments for this week's update. What is interesting: Many have never heard of "Brookhyrst?" They didn't know what I was talking about? When I did find someone with information, I was told it was bundled with The Byrum Apartments "on hold" and both will start around the same time, which that person also said was possibly Fall 2023.

It should be interesting to see if any of these DPJ Residential projects start in Fall 2023... or early-2024. ... I was told this week that construction costs have increased by 8% over the past two or three months. Some costs have gone down, but others are still going up. Maybe someone is expecting a recession later this year or early next year? I've heard that is 50/50 and some think a recession may not happen?

Salem Bottling Works is also on my list of projects to find updates on for this week's update. That is another project no one seems to have information on?

[LynnAikens]

Originally Posted by Matthew

I think only a moderator can delete posts here? The old WSTB gave everyone some abilities that are usually reserved for moderators.

According to the source for the rendering (source is working directly on The Byrum project), construction on The Byrum Apartments will start in Fall 2023. I've seen other sources working directly on the project say Fall 2023 or early-2024. That is likely site demolition and not foundation work? I guess we shall see what happens. If AHWFB would announce the Eye Institute selecting a site almost right at The Byrum site, I'm guessing they would quickly want to start, to take advantage of the researchers and students who will move into that space and may want to live downtown. A bike and walking path, across the street, connects the two (it's a fast bike ride between them!) and both projects should bring more bike and foot traffic to that path.

It seems as if young people who are born in Winston-Salem love the city and are increasingly proud of it. Older people who are born in Winston-Salem remember when it had more headquarters, taller buildings, more banking assets, and more wealth than Charlotte and was larger than Raleigh. Many of them remember when Winston-Salem had a taller building than Atlanta. They think since the city isn't up there with Charlotte and discussed in the same circles as Atlanta, it's now down-and-out. People who move to Winston-Salem from other cities love Winston-Salem and if they move, they often want to return to Winston-Salem. Visit Winston-Salem's day-trip and three-day weekend vacation ads often lead to visitors moving here. Charlotte, Raleigh, and New York City are now the top places people move to Winston-Salem from, largely due to those weekend day-trip or three-day weekend ads. People who move to Winston-Salem from other countries often encourage their entire family to move here. It's a small city that looks mid-sized and has many mid-sized or larger amenities. It also out-performs most of its peers, which is really what we should be looking at. How is Winston-Salem doing compared to its peers and next-step-up cities.

I don't think we will ever convince many of those older residents who were born here that this city is doing amazing things right now. Winston-Salem (by UA, which this forum often uses to measure city size) is roughly the same size as Augusta, Georgia and Pensacola, Florida. However, we are discussing a new 250,000 square-foot eye institute that will be a research hub for one of the nation's largest multi-state healthcare systems. Right now, construction of a 280,000 square-foot eye institute (total size of the entire eye institute after completion) is a hot topic in Cleveland, Ohio. We are discussing a Neuroscience Research Center as one of the exciting new proposals for Winston-Salem. Another hot construction topic in Cleveland, where they are planning a neuroscience research center, and I think one is nearing completion in St. Louis. My wife, who is from Seattle, showed me their neuroscience research center in Seattle a while back, while visiting family. These are projects built in cities several times larger than Winston-Salem. These are being built in downtown Winston-Salem, too! You don't usually see projects like this in cities of Winston-Salem's size. That is part of the reason this is a "big little city" type of place that combines big city amenities and big city appearance with the upside of a smaller city.

By moving to the former Inmar space, the Eye Institute will actually be a larger project. Before the Pandemic, Winston-Salem was the leading city among its peer group, according to Greater Winston-Salem. Currently, Winston-Salem is second only to Savannah (is experiencing an automotive manufacturing and port boom) in its peer group and Winston-Salem actually competed against Savannah for a North American headquarters and won! I think both headquarters Greater Winston-Salem was trying to attract selected Winston-Salem.

What a great motivational post. I too love Winston-Salem and have been a resident for 60 years. Yes, we are still a great town but have also lost a lot. It’s like being a millionaire after you once was a billionaire. Both are considered rich, but...

Its always good to be still rich and not poor.

[Winstonwalker]

Originally Posted by DCMetroRaleigh

More on
100-unit mixed use project at Green and Fourth


https://www.bizjournals.com/triad/news/2023/08/11/green-apartments-winston-salem-develop.html

I don’t have access to GB Biz Journal. I see a headline that says “55 and over” development. Did that apply to this project?? We’ve been expecting to start seeing some elder residences downtown. This would be a great location!!

[westsalem18]

biz journal seems to have good news on two companies staying put and investing more in Winston-Salem.

one of those (project fiesta ha) is definitely purple crow. interested to see if that announcement at whitaker park is forthcoming. i heard earlier this week it's a done deal.

[WSBornNBred]

Any idea on where the Prokidney HQ could go? Would this be a new build or upfit of an existing office? Per TBJ, "A company that isn’t identified but whose description matches that of ProKidney is seeking incentives from Winston-Salem to build a new headquarters of 53,000 square feet."

[Matthew]

The Purple Crow project will be one of the biggest economic development projects of year.

I think ProKidney is expanding their existing headquarters, if I'm not mistaken.

I thought someone (not me) posted at WSTB on this being 55+, but it was also said they couldn't enforce age limits on the units (discrimination?)? This (article) is the first official confirmation of it being 55+.

[zalo]

The WS Journal’s reporting indicated that this request is for an expansion of their operations in Westpoint Business Park that incorporates HQ functions into an additional 54,000 sq ft. I was very pleasantly surprised by this ask! The Purple Cow project appears to involve, among other things, the relocating of HQ functions from their current site. The annual salaries of the new jobs are very strong as well. This is one of the more important aspects of these various job announcements over the last year in that for the most part, the payrolls for these jobs will be greatly enhancing our business stats!

Regarding the proposed apartment complexes, it was discussed on the old WSTB site that Brookhyrst (near the ballpark) was to start construction this Fall after they went back to the planning board for approval of additional units to their originally approved plan. The purchase of the land for The Byrum was completed & was intended to be landbanked for a future start date.

[DCMetroRaleigh]

Front Street Capitol announces it is onboard with Wake Forest’s ambitious plans for major mixed used project that redevelops district near Allegacy Stadium, LJVM Coliseum and Couch Ballpark.



https://www.bizjournals.com/triad/news/2...treet-capital-mixed-use-development.html

[DCMetroRaleigh]

Three new businesses are coming to Trade Street in Winston-Salem – a bakery chain, a wine shop, and a home fragrance shop.

https://www.facebook.com/100063801331639...7oBWwdPVsDjLDspXaQvvSYl/?mibextid=cr9u03

[ForsythDeac]

I created an account on the new board to post the WFU announcement but looks like I got beat to the punch lol

This project is one I've been excited about for a long time and I'm glad it's finally moving forward after a decade plus of silence! For those who have expertise in development, how long does it take to make a site master plan for an area this large?

[wsnc62]

I'm back from WSTB, with the buddy boosters for Winston-Salem!

I am super excited about the news of WFU partnering with Front Street and the Atlanta developer to reinvigorate the coliseum/stadium area. While a lot of it is parking to support the facilities and likely will not see changes, I am thrilled that the dead restaurant spaces facing University Parkway, and the Baity Street areas will be brought back to life. And it appears that a leg of property undoubtedly owned by Wake runs up University Parkway to Reynolds Boulevard, which could possibly be housing to support the campus? Wouldn't it be awesome to see a pedestrian bridge built from this area across University Parkway to the corner of the campus near Faculty Drive and the golf course?

This is a golden opportunity to turn this whole area around and make it a true destination for the city!!

[Matthew]

Adam Parker from Carter went to Wake Forest University. They (Carter) are known for Atlantic Station and Summerhill here in Atlanta. It would be nice if they could replace all of those parking lots around the sports venues with residential, hotel, entertainment, and retail/restaurant uses. At The Banks in Cincinnati, they built over the parking decks for the sports venues. I'm also open to wrapping the parking in other uses, to hide it. That is really the main thing I want to see. This is Wake Forest creating that fan experience I said was so important to packing sports venues, today. I do think, with the trend toward lifestyle centers and with Wake Forest at the site, this could attract interesting retail/restaurant options. I would be open to an amphitheatre in this location, instead of downtown. I really would like to see more entertainment options and this is a great location for those uses. Quotes like "best fan experience in North Carolina" and "most exciting live-work-play development in northwest North Carolina" sound exciting.

It should be interesting to see a site plan and who they hire for the architectural services.