Halifax Stadium Discussion

[Empire]

Interesting how they combined a stadium and a 10,000 seat arena at Landsdowne Park in Ottawa.

http://www.lansdownepark.ca/centre_arena_en.html

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by Empire

Interesting how they combined a stadium and a 10,000 seat arena at Landsdowne Park in Ottawa.

http://www.lansdownepark.ca/centre_arena_en.html

They also have a theatre in there.

[MonctonRad]

I'm posting this article from the T&T here, just to provide you guys with some edification..........it sounds like Moncton headed this one off at the pass. BTW, the IAAF World Championships are going on now and seem to be going off without a hitch (so far). It's raining today however.

It all started with a phone call
Published Thursday July 22nd, 2010

Moncton's rising tide led to opportunities that attracted IAAF event
by brent mazerolle
Times & transcript staff

If you are one of the thousands and thousands of people who packed into the brand new Stade 2010 Moncton Stadium last night to take in some of the largest sporting event ever held in Atlantic Canada, you might be surprised that all of that massive spectacle started with a chance meeting and a single phone call.

But here it is, the true story of how both the IAAF World Junior Championships and the stadium built to house them came to be.

Our story starts in the summer of 2004, shortly after Marie-Claire Pierce, the City of Moncton's community development officer for sports and active living, first went to work for the city. On a trip to Edmundston, Marie-Claire dropped in on Ty Thériault, an old friend, former boss and well-known champion of sport in our region. Ty was, in fact, the first director of the CEPS, today the CEPS-Louis-J-Robichaud sports facility now connected to the Stade Moncton 2010 Stadium.

When Ty asked how things were going in Moncton, Marie-Claire told him all about how Moncton's tide was rising, how the city was aggressively chasing after recreation facilities like the Dundee Sportsdome and building sports fields and multi-rink arenas like what is today called the Red Ball Internet Centre.

The city's audacious and successful hosting of the largest North American concert on the Rolling Stones' Bigger Bang Tour was still a few months from landing on Moncton's radar, and the city's hosting of the World Men's Curling Championship was still half a decade away, but Ty Thériault liked what he was hearing about the progress in the city he used to call home.

That's where Jean-Guy Ouellette comes in. Back then, Jean-Guy was the chairman of Athletics Canada and looking for a municipality interested in being the host city in a Canadian bid for the 2008 World Junior Championships.

Like Marie-Claire, Jean-Guy had once worked for Ty and considered him a good friend. He called up his old friend - apart from their long histories with Canadian sport, both men grew up in Edmundston - and asked if he had any suggestions about who to contact in Halifax.

"You don't want to go to Halifax," Ty told his friend. "You want to go to Moncton."

Ty gave Jean-Guy a great contact in Moncton - Marie-Claire.

"I missed Ty's call, but got a message to call him right away, so I called him back and he said, you need to call Jean-Guy Ouellette,'" she recalled last night.

"And I said, who's Jean-Guy Ouellette?'"

They got that straightened out, and Marie-Claire went to see her new boss, Ian Fowler.

Soon then-mayor Lorne Mitton was in the loop, Athletics Canada's then-chief operating officer Joanne Mortimore came into the fold, and the rest is, as they say, history, with all the years of hard work that making history entails.

First, of course, Canada had to win the right to host a junior championship, Moncton had to secure the right to be Canada's bid city and three levels of government had to commit to building a stadium and on and on, all before the real work of Moncton 2010 even began.

Last night, Jean-Guy had the honour of presenting the medals in the men's shot put, and before that he gathered with Ty and Marie-Claire and Ian and Joanne up near the top of the stadium, where all enjoyed both the view of the junior championships and the world-class facility they were being contested in. Six years have passed, and all of them would agree there are some days it feels like it was much longer than that, and other days it seems it was much shorter. The games this week are now already half over, but already the future of athletics and other sports and cultural events in the region looks a whole lot like a certain facility out there on the Université de Moncton campus, where the paint still smells fresh and bits of sawdust still blow on the breeze of a Wednesday evening.



I think this is what they call "networking"

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I'm posting this article from the T&T here, just to provide you guys with some edification..........it sounds like Moncton headed this one off at the pass. BTW, the IAAF World Championships are going on now and seem to be going off without a hitch (so far). It's raining today however.

It all started with a phone call
Published Thursday July 22nd, 2010

Moncton's rising tide led to opportunities that attracted IAAF event
by brent mazerolle
Times & transcript staff

If you are one of the thousands and thousands of people who packed into the brand new Stade 2010 Moncton Stadium last night to take in some of the largest sporting event ever held in Atlantic Canada, you might be surprised that all of that massive spectacle started with a chance meeting and a single phone call.

But here it is, the true story of how both the IAAF World Junior Championships and the stadium built to house them came to be.

Our story starts in the summer of 2004, shortly after Marie-Claire Pierce, the City of Moncton's community development officer for sports and active living, first went to work for the city. On a trip to Edmundston, Marie-Claire dropped in on Ty Thériault, an old friend, former boss and well-known champion of sport in our region. Ty was, in fact, the first director of the CEPS, today the CEPS-Louis-J-Robichaud sports facility now connected to the Stade Moncton 2010 Stadium.

When Ty asked how things were going in Moncton, Marie-Claire told him all about how Moncton's tide was rising, how the city was aggressively chasing after recreation facilities like the Dundee Sportsdome and building sports fields and multi-rink arenas like what is today called the Red Ball Internet Centre.

The city's audacious and successful hosting of the largest North American concert on the Rolling Stones' Bigger Bang Tour was still a few months from landing on Moncton's radar, and the city's hosting of the World Men's Curling Championship was still half a decade away, but Ty Thériault liked what he was hearing about the progress in the city he used to call home.

That's where Jean-Guy Ouellette comes in. Back then, Jean-Guy was the chairman of Athletics Canada and looking for a municipality interested in being the host city in a Canadian bid for the 2008 World Junior Championships.

Like Marie-Claire, Jean-Guy had once worked for Ty and considered him a good friend. He called up his old friend - apart from their long histories with Canadian sport, both men grew up in Edmundston - and asked if he had any suggestions about who to contact in Halifax.

"You don't want to go to Halifax," Ty told his friend. "You want to go to Moncton."

Ty gave Jean-Guy a great contact in Moncton - Marie-Claire.

"I missed Ty's call, but got a message to call him right away, so I called him back and he said, you need to call Jean-Guy Ouellette,'" she recalled last night.

"And I said, who's Jean-Guy Ouellette?'"

They got that straightened out, and Marie-Claire went to see her new boss, Ian Fowler.

Soon then-mayor Lorne Mitton was in the loop, Athletics Canada's then-chief operating officer Joanne Mortimore came into the fold, and the rest is, as they say, history, with all the years of hard work that making history entails.

First, of course, Canada had to win the right to host a junior championship, Moncton had to secure the right to be Canada's bid city and three levels of government had to commit to building a stadium and on and on, all before the real work of Moncton 2010 even began.

Last night, Jean-Guy had the honour of presenting the medals in the men's shot put, and before that he gathered with Ty and Marie-Claire and Ian and Joanne up near the top of the stadium, where all enjoyed both the view of the junior championships and the world-class facility they were being contested in. Six years have passed, and all of them would agree there are some days it feels like it was much longer than that, and other days it seems it was much shorter. The games this week are now already half over, but already the future of athletics and other sports and cultural events in the region looks a whole lot like a certain facility out there on the Université de Moncton campus, where the paint still smells fresh and bits of sawdust still blow on the breeze of a Wednesday evening.



I think this is what they call "networking"

Well there is a lesson for those of us hoping for HRM to get one! Talk to these guys and get ahead of the game.

[halifaxboyns]

I didn't want to talk about the stadium in the wrong thread; so I go back to what I started saying in the Nova Centre discussion - create a list of infrastructure and then follow it. The problem is that city governments often see quality of life projects as the least important when it comes to building versus hospitals, schools or roads.

That being said; I believe there are lots of good places a stadium (fully indoor or covered) could go if done as part of an overall approach. I lumped the stadium in with the fast ferry to Shannon Park because, in my mind, you could do an entire redevelopment plan for Shannon Park to include a stadium, high speed ferry to downtown Halifax and then residential/commercial or mixed use.

The benefit (IMO) of coupling the two together in that case is that if the project hinged on good transportation connection (which it should be); then you would build the stadium with the new shannon park and it couldn't open until the fast ferry was built, new bus routes operating and most of the redevelopment completed.

I was attempting to reflect how; if in the Shannon Park context; the development could work. I may not have clearly stated that I agreed with the idea that no stadium until the transit was in place.

The other option I've talked about a few times is build out into the harbour and make it part of the Halifax or Dartmouth waterfronts. I went back and proposed these diagrams; although I think it would probably need about 200' out of fill versus the 150' I showed (at least). But IMO; this would be a great addition for either side. If you built out from Dartmouth, it could form part of a boardwalk system and also be a location for more cruise ship docks - so there would be some on both sides of the Harbour (since King's Wharf also shows a cruise ship dock). It could also integrate into activities like the Multi-cultural festival and if built over the air rights of the CN tracks - might even be able to integrate into Alderney Landing.

If built on the Halifax Waterfront; same story - could be intergrated into the a waterfront pathway system, provides more docking space and adds to the attraction of the area. Also, if regional rail were created - walking distance to the station.

[fenwick16]

We might be talking about two different things - a covered stadium (football/soccer stadium) is a major expense if done correctly with a retractable roof. Regina is actually proposing such a facility for about $350 - $400 million. Such a facility is out of the question for the Halifax area. A fixed dome stadium is not desirable by most people who have been in such facilities. And a covered hockey arena is a different topic completely (and in my opinion, not required).

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

We might be talking about two different things - a covered stadium (football/soccer stadium) is a major expense if done correctly with a retractable roof. Regina is actually proposing such a facility for about $350 - $400 million. Such a facility is out of the question for the Halifax area. A fixed dome stadium is not desirable by most people who have been in such facilities. And a covered hockey arena is a different topic completely (and in my opinion, not required).

Why is out the question though?
I've lived in Calgary and Alberta long enough to adopt the moto live big or go home; so why couldn't Halifax do it? Why not go big?

I'm not saying that to have the project scrapped - I really believe that if Halifax started out with a temporary stadium and developed a strong team with a big following then why shouldn't it have the best? Teams like the Rough riders have many corporate sponsors and spread between 3 levels of government, corporate sponsorship and fundraising - I'm sure it could work.

I'm not saying right away though; start out with the temporary facility and build team sponsorship, loyalty and an fan base. But as you do that; say over the course of 3 to 4 years - if the growth is right then why not go for it?

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

Why is out the question though?
I've lived in Calgary and Alberta long enough to adopt the moto live big or go home; so why couldn't Halifax do it? Why not go big?

I'm not saying that to have the project scrapped - I really believe that if Halifax started out with a temporary stadium and developed a strong team with a big following then why shouldn't it have the best? Teams like the Rough riders have many corporate sponsors and spread between 3 levels of government, corporate sponsorship and fundraising - I'm sure it could work.

I'm not saying right away though; start out with the temporary facility and build team sponsorship, loyalty and an fan base. But as you do that; say over the course of 3 to 4 years - if the growth is right then why not go for it?

There are many economically priced stadiums in the world that would be very suitable. I personally believe that most people would prefer an economically priced stadium instead of an elaborately priced stadium. Such an elaborately priced facility would become a white elephant similar to the Big O in Montreal. On the other hand an economically priced stadium could be used for various sports events and concerts without major debt to the municipality and province.

[halifaxboyns]

Well perhaps not all the bells and whistles; but I think a nicely built stadium with retractable roof would be a great thing in Halifax. Could really add to the skyline depending on where it is and could intergrate well with surrounding commercial services.

Also would be a great concert venue.
I go for the retractable roof because of the level of fog that occurs in HRM and we wouldn't want people not able to see the ball!

[fenwick16]

It is good to have big dreams. I think that a retractable dome stadium in Halifax is as likely to happen as my dream of a subway in Halifax. (however, I would prefer the subway and just an inexpensive stadium).

[halifaxboyns]

I guess where we differ is the style of stadium for what sport?

I get the impression you are talking about a football stadium; which is fine. My mind is focused more on an enclosed space to replace the Metro Centre for hockey.





Now I was searching around and found these old renderings from the Commonwealth games bid - which I believe is more in line with what you are thinking.

However, for me - I'm more thinking about something like the MTS centre in Winnipeg:

[fenwick16]

I don't see a reason to replace the Metro Centre since I consider it to be a good facility and it is only 34 years old. On the other hand Halifax does not have a suitable outdoor stadium (football stadium). Halifax has a good chance of attracting a CFL team which it could support, whereas it has little chance of attracting an NHL team which it likely couldn't support anyway.

Something like the Commonwealth Games Stadium is what I am thinking about - an outdoor stadium. The MTS Centre is an arena. Usually, in North America at least, an arena is for hockey and basketball, a stadium is for football, soccer and baseball (although baseball-only stadiums tend to be called ball parks).

PS: My definition isn't the true definition of a stadium and arena, it is just what most North Americans consider to be stadiums and arenas. North Americans would typically not say football arena, nor would they say hockey stadium. This is just the common usage of these terms probably because this is how they have been used for the past several decades.

[Empire]

If You Build It They Will Come
Good for you Moncton.....

http://www.metronews.ca/halifax/comment/article/585033--prospering-in-a-maritime-field-of-dreams

[brettinhalifax]

account deleted

[fenwick16]

Thanks for posting this. It makes me wonder why Halifax can't do something similar. However, make it so that it can accommodate the FIFA Women's Cup also. Montreal's Molson Percival Stadium and now the new Empire Stadium have proven that smaller is better for the CFL (less is more in this case).

I have to wonder why Vancouver is spending so much to renovate BC Place.

[Empire]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

Thanks for posting this. It makes me wonder why Halifax can't do something similar. However, make it so that it can accommodate the FIFA Women's Cup also. Montreal's Molson Percival Stadium and now the new Empire Stadium have proven that smaller is better for the CFL (less is more in this case).

I have to wonder why Vancouver is spending so much to renovate BC Place.

When will Empire Field be decommissioned? Maybe Halifax could buy the stadium at a yard sale price if it becomes available. Council would have to approve it of course?

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Empir...e+Lions+2010/2371348/story.html?tab=PHOT

[hfx_chris]

Wouldn't be the first time large pieces of infrastructure were shipped from one coast to the other; the log flume ride at Upper Clements Park in NS was shipped from Vancouver, originally being part of Expo 86.

Agree though with the description of Empire Field. It had a really good feel when I saw it on TV, and the crowd was making a huge amount of noise. Something was always missing at BC Place, and same thing with Rogers Centre. And as for Percival Molson, I do home sometime to see the Als play at home, that would be an awesome experience, the renovated stadium is amazing and hasn't lost one bit of the atmosphere, by the looks of it. Anyone else going to be watching them kick the Argos ass tomorrow night?

[Empire]

Originally Posted by hfx_chris

Wouldn't be the first time large pieces of infrastructure were shipped from one coast to the other; the log flume ride at Upper Clements Park in NS was shipped from Vancouver, originally being part of Expo 86 .

The entire Ultramar refinery was decommissioned , dismantled and shipped from Eastern Passage to China.

[fenwick16]

Another one of my simply models using the SketchUp program (this has become a hobby for me). I have been thinking about Halifax getting FIFA games (Women's Cup Games - hopefully in 2015, if Canada is selected) and possibly Men's Cup games in 2034 (far-fetched but fun to think about); so I have been wondering what size stadium would be required. There are specifications for International FIFA Cup games that include both the field dimensions and sideline allowances ( http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/tourname...mmendations_and_requirements_en_8211.pdf ).

I watched the BC - Edmonton CFL game a few days ago (an excellent game) and saw how the stands emptied once a downpour began; this reinforced my view that covered stands will be required in Halifax if a CFL team is to be successful. Such covered seats are common in European soccer and the stadiums do not necessarily cost a fortune. The model below is one that I drew in SketchUp but the roof support structure was copied from a model by dizzyharsh and posted at the Google 3D warehouse (New Cardiff City Stadium - only the roof supports).

This would seat about 30,000 with room for future expansion in the end zones for about 40,000. Having a third level with overhangs means that the roof won't have to extend as far. This model isn't complete. Although these are simple models compared to what would be required for an actual detailed conceptual model, it gives me a chance to see what layouts will give suitable view-lines. (The black outline is an international size FIFA size soccer field).

[halifaxboyns]

Fenwick - it's an interesting design and well thought out. I've been to the Edmonton Stadium; it's pretty good. The one here in Calgary is in desperate need of an overhaul - it's on the list somewhere.

Because we couldn't see the other side of the model, I'm assuming it would be the same as the seats shown (with the roof overhang)?

30,000 is a good number. I could see this in Shannon Park; assuming it was part of an overall plan that included residential and some sort of mixed transportation system (High Speed Ferry to downtown and maybe Bedford - for the games perhaps?) and then a bus station or some sort of feeder bus to the Highfield Terminal. Some parking would be okay - but not as much as normal stadiums would consider. Unless you wanted to do that to enhance local commercial ventures.