CHICAGO: ORD & MDW discussion

[Rail Claimore]

Originally Posted by VivaLFuego

Other than LAX, JFK, and IAD, do any other US airports have regular scheduled nonstop service to Moscow? It seems the coasts provide the more natural base for US-Russia travel, and despite a decent sized population in the Chicago area, the heartland in general is not overflowing with Russian immigrants, Russian business operations, nor Russian tourists.

Year-round? No. ATL has seasonal service on DL that used to be year-round, but the recession forced them to cut back. I'm not sure any other airports have even seasonal service.

[yaga]

Originally Posted by VivaLFuego

Other than LAX, JFK, and IAD, do any other US airports have regular scheduled nonstop service to Moscow? It seems the coasts provide the more natural base for US-Russia travel, and despite a decent sized population in the Chicago area, the heartland in general is not overflowing with Russian immigrants, Russian business operations, nor Russian tourists.

IAH has regulaur non-stop service to Moscow Domodedovo continuing to Singapore by Singapore Airlines.

[trvlr70]

Originally Posted by VivaLFuego

Other than LAX, JFK, and IAD, do any other US airports have regular scheduled nonstop service to Moscow? It seems the coasts provide the more natural base for US-Russia travel, and despite a decent sized population in the Chicago area, the heartland in general is not overflowing with Russian immigrants, Russian business operations, nor Russian tourists.

Aeroflot used to fly from Chicago nonstop to Moscow. But post-911, Aeroflot's service was cut along with ORD departing flights on Austrian, Singapore, Virgin and ANA. Virgin Atlantic and ANA have returned since then.

[Rail Claimore]

Originally Posted by yaga

IAH has regulaur non-stop service to Moscow Domodedovo continuing to Singapore by Singapore Airlines.

Completely forgot that stopped in Moscow. That service must be doing well considering the distance that routing is to Singapore.

[nergie]

As a frequent flyer with ORD being my home airport, It seems ORD has suffered moreso than other large Hub airports in last 5 years. Also it seems the airlines are slow to return.

In last few weeks several airlines have announced new routes, yet aside from +1 frequency on ORD-LA and ORD-Helsinki from AA there was not much new news. I hope this is just the calm before the storm of major announcements from AA, UA and Int'l carriers.

So my questions are, are AA, UA holding routes back as barganing chip with city over proposed W. Terminal?

Is this a sign of more difficult times at ORD in near-term future?

Is this me just making bad observations?


Thank you all for your feedback.

[BrennanW]

ORD just earned a daily on Eagle to MHK. Local officials here are hinting at a second daily. Additionally, dont forget all the new European service AA just added.

[nergie]

Originally Posted by BrennanW

ORD just earned a daily on Eagle to MHK. Local officials here are hinting at a second daily. Additionally, dont forget all the new European service AA just added.

BrennanW, nice to see a fellow Kansan as that was my home state for 23 years of life. AA only added Helsinki, while eliminating FRA and switching Dublin to seasonal.

Manhattan Kansas, is not exactly what I am talking about in terms of new service, sure must be nice for coaches to recruit. Mind you, I am J-Hawk. But thanks for the response.

[BrennanW]

Thanks for your reply. I think what I meant to say was "All the new service UA just added," but since AA was on my mind I typed the wrong thing. UAL did add some nice new service to Eastern Europe.

On aside, The Cats just chartered an AA M80 for the flight to Baylor yesterday. Nice to see they switched from just using the random charter operator or Southwest to support the new service. We'll be up to 4x daily in November, and as stated it looks like ORD may get bumped to 2x daily. Nicely sized regional airport we're developing here in MHK.

[Jenner]

I'm going to continue a conversation started on airliners.net, regarding O'Hare expansion under a Rahm Emanual regime. The thread is here: http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo....main/4960022/
To respond to that forum requires a sign up fee of either $5 monthly or one-time $25. Although the material is interesting to read, I don't see me paying money just to respond to a post. If anyone has an account over there, perhaps they can cross-post.

Essentially, the responders at the forum mentioned above believe that the Western terminal should be built and given to United, and American can move to terminal 1. Other posts talk about their idealized version of O'hare, and also a lot of talk about what to do about terminal 2.

According to the OMP, the western terminal would have 8700 sq ft of apron frontage. Currently, UA and Star Alliance using all of terminal 1, and the majority of terminal 2, save for 8 gates used by Delta and Jet Blue. Combined apron footage is approximately 11,600 sq ft (1: 7259sqft, 2: 4436sqft). This would mean that the western terminal wouldn't be big enough for United and its Star Alliance partners.

I had a post _here_ that envisions creating a terminal 4 where the HVAC building is currently located. It looks doable. You could move Delta and Jet Blue over there, and maybe some other airlines from terminal 3 onto terminal 4. Then United can take the rest of terminal 2, and AA could fill more of terminal 3.

United would be left with an interesting situation. Delta would have a newer terminal at O'Hare, and United probably understands that terminal 2 would need to be revamped. United would probably insist that Chicago come up with some money to help rebuild terminal 2, considering that a new terminal was just built for Delta. Coming up with a rebuilt terminal 2 would be ideal for United, without the need of the western terminal. This scenario would restrict the total capacity since the western terminal isn't built, but would probably leave UA and AA happier.

[denizen467]

8000 square feet sounds teeny. Do you mean linear?

[Jenner]

Yes, sorry. Linear feet of apron space.

[spyguy]

Originally Posted by nergie

I hope this is just the calm before the storm of major announcements from AA, UA and Int'l carriers.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...-medina-merger

United makes global plans on shoestring budget
By Julie Johnsson October 21, 2010

...O'Hare International Airport was the only hub not to gain new destinations in the first wave of expansion by the new United, but it hasn't been overlooked, said United spokeswoman Jean Medina.

"O'Hare serves a wide breadth of destinations today," she said. "That said, we're just beginning to roll out the new destinations, and we expect to add additional cities from O'Hare soon."

[BrennanW]

...like MHK!

Just Kidding. I'm really hoping for some more Europe/Africa/Middle East flights from ORD. South America is really lacking in UAs network, too. AA is mining gold down there with the DFW and MIA hubs. IMO, UA shouldn't have dropped the MIA hub- it was great for that sort of thing.

[Jenner]

UA through acquiring Continental will gain more marketshare regarding South America, Europe, and some MiddleEast/Africa. Much of the European trips will leave from EWR (Newark Liberty in NJ), and the South American trips will leave from IAH (Houston Intercontinental). ORD serves as a good mid-continent airport for Asia and European travellers.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by Jenner

This scenario would restrict the total capacity since the western terminal isn't built, but would probably leave UA and AA happier.

The western terminal probably needs to be built at some point, even if it doesn't have any gates in it. Ground transportation into O'Hare is limited to the tiny I-190 corridor. In the long run, western access for autos, taxis, buses, and transit vehicles will need to be built, and that requires some sort of large intermodal facility with a connection to the terminals on the east side of the airfield.

Numerous plans, from Metra's STAR Line to DuPage's J-Line and now MHSRA's 220mph HSR plan assume that a western terminal will be built, because ground access from the east is so difficult to expand.

[BrennanW]

Originally Posted by Jenner

UA through acquiring Continental will gain more marketshare regarding South America, Europe, and some MiddleEast/Africa. Much of the European trips will leave from EWR (Newark Liberty in NJ), and the South American trips will leave from IAH (Houston Intercontinental). ORD serves as a good mid-continent airport for Asia and European travellers.

I agree. With Great Circle Mapper, there isn't a whole lotta added distance from EWR/ORD to Europe - and ORD's huge catchment area plus its large O+D markets make it a prime location to expand European and Asian ops. I think ORD is really lacking in a single connection to Rio or the middle east (Emirates).

[trvlr70]

Originally Posted by BrennanW

I think ORD is really lacking in a single connection to Rio or the middle east (Emirates).

There exists today a nonstop from ORD to Abu Dhabi on Etihad Airlines. And while we do not have nonstops to Rio, Unitied opereates a daily nonstop to Sao Paulo, Brazil.

[Nowhereman1280]

Chicago also has a daily (or 6 days a week) flight to Amman, Jordan on Royal Jordanian.

[trvlr70]

There are also Pakistani Air flights to Islamabad but there is an intermediary stop I believe in Manchester, UK or someplace like that.

[nergie]

Originally Posted by trvlr70

There are also Pakistani Air flights to Islamabad but there is an intermediary stop I believe in Manchester, UK or someplace like that.

It is Barcelona.