Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

I'd picture a Luc Plamondon grand production with a mix of Notre Dame de Paris and Starmania would have been very fitting for the Paris JO.

No. A great opening ceremony would have been something a little bit like what the Brits did in 2012, mentioning the history of the country but not in either a ridiculous/cliché way as in the 2023 Rugby world cup, or a nationalist/overly patriotic way like dictatorships do. Mixed with some touches of humor (like the queen dropped in parachute). And also embracing today's world in its modernity and diversity, including ethnic diversity.

So it could have been, say, various tableaux mentioning French history in its best aspects, such as Gustave Eiffel and engineering prowess, the various Paris world expositions which fascinated the world, they could even have had a glancing evocation of the French Revolution (without overdoing it) and the contribution of France to freedom and Enlightenment. All mixed with some touches of humor here and there (but without overdoing it either). And having French singers and entertainers putting on a show (Mylène Farmer? why not, she's a great show(wo)man, and physically pleasant to look at), French singers of White ethnicity, and also of ethnic minorities (but not ONE Black singer from Mali naturalized French and who sings awfully turned into THE representation of France, which is absurd and unpleasant to many people).

Of course all of this was impossible from the start, because it would require a country that is at ease with itself, confident about its present and its future, with a vibrant culture, which is not at all the case of France today, a country that is currently culturally insecure, unhappy about the present, and unsure about its future. Such a country cannot organize a great show like that, proudly displaying itself.

So instead you'll have a "world show" that just happens to be taking place in Paris, a simple backdrop, and a Malian-born singer as the representation of France just to piss the far-right, but otherwise only international foreign stars who most likely won't even sing in French.

At least if they can spare us the embarrassment of the 2023 Rugby World Cup opening ceremony, I (like many people) will be thankful for that.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

And having French singers and entertainers putting on a show (Mylène Farmer? why not, she's a great show(wo)man, and physically pleasant to look at),

I have a feeling they're in this situation because Mylène turned them down privately (though maybe they've secretly slotted her for the closing ceremony, she's always been mysterious and hush hush that way), and there's very few domestic alternatives available (whereas Quebec and Canada would have a whole catalogue of famous performers to choose from). Maybe it's an indictment of France's music industry in its current state, where even Belge seems to be generating a lot more prolific artists in the francophone music world.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by harls

It depends on how it's delivered. If it's a loud belligerent "EXCUSE ME", it comes off as if you did something wrong, and you are required to resolve this person's problem.

A timid 'hey, excuse me, sir?' would be quite a difference.

I'll let you guess which one sounds more American.

The real belligerence, in the US, is when you're told "you're welcome!" out of the blue and with a tone of reproach.

I find also a loud and forceful "Sir!", as barked by security staff, pretty belligerent in the US.

"Excuse me" is most of the time ok (as long as it's not a reproachful "exCUse me?").

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by harls

It depends on how it's delivered. If it's a loud belligerent "EXCUSE ME", it comes off as if you did something wrong, and you are required to resolve this person's problem.

A timid 'hey, excuse me, sir?' would be quite a difference.

I'll let you guess which one sounds more American.

If I were asking someone for the time or directions, I'd be as likely, if not more likely, to start with "Excuse me" than "Hello". I like to think that I am never inadvertently rude.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

I have a feeling they're in this situation because Mylène turned them down privately, and there's very few domestic alternatives available (whereas Quebec and Canada would have a whole catalogue of famous performers to choose from). Maybe it's an indictment of France's music industry in its current state, where even Belge seems to be generating a lot more prolific artists in the francophone music world.

Ever heard of Daft Punk? or David Guetta? They just happen to be the most famous French singers/bands in Europe, probably even the world.

David Guetta was in fact complaining he wasn't even approached by the people in charge of preparing the opening ceremony. Probably "too white", "too French" for them. (oh, and he's a man too... just all the wrong boxes)

Jean-Michel Jarre was also great back in the days, but he was of course not contacted either!

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

If their concern was security, they would never have organized an opening ceremony on the Seine River, which all security experts say is madness. It's typical of the inflated ego of our elites. They always want to be "original", do things differently. Organizing it in a stadium as every city does wouldn't have flattered their delusion of grandeur enough.

To be very honest, like many Parisians, I hope it's an unmitigated disaster. We're many people who can't stand these games anymore, what with all the security (bridges closed, metro stations closed for months before the games, etc), plus the tackiness of it all, and the mismanagement of the city by our horrible mayor. Many people hope it turns into a disaster, in order to have the mayor sacked.

It's that upbeat optimism and can-do spirit of the Parisiens that keeps people coming back. That and the friendly warmth of the waiters.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Ever heard of Daft Punk? or David Guetta? They just happen to be the most famous French singers/bands in Europe, probably even the world.

David Guetta was in fact complaining he wasn't even approached by the people in charge of preparing the opening ceremony. Probably "too white", "too French" for them. (oh, and he's a man too... just all the wrong boxes)

Jean-Michel Jarre was also great back in the days, but he was of course not contacted either!

If I recall correctly, they did try to get Daft Punk but the dual was non-committal and probably turned it down privately.

https://www.leparisien.fr/jo-paris-2...Y7YDNQ7L3I.php

David Guetta I'd imagine got turned down because he's a DJ and doesn't actually sing, and EDM is a bit low-brow amongst the artsy fartsy folks.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

If I recall correctly, they did try to get Daft Punk but the dual was non-committal and probably turned it down privately.

https://www.leparisien.fr/jo-paris-2...Y7YDNQ7L3I.php

David Guetta I'd imagine got turned down because he's more a DJ and doesn't actually sing, and EDM is a bit low-brow amongst the artsy fartsy folks.

Better for the closing ceremony than the opening, istm.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

It's that upbeat optimism and can-do spirit of the Parisiens that keeps people coming back. That and the friendly warmth of the waiters.

They come to see the stone skeletons of what our ancestors built long ago (and which we would be quite incapable of building today), and also drawn by the lingering romance and attraction of the story our ancestors wrote long ago. I always find it a bit sad. They certainly don't come for today's Parisians, or for what today's Parisians are building or creating.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

If I recall correctly, they did try to get Daft Punk but the dual was non-committal and probably turned it down privately.

https://www.leparisien.fr/jo-paris-2...Y7YDNQ7L3I.php

As the Americans say, it's only a question of how much. Every man has his price.

[New Brisavoine]

I think they could also have highlighted and shown to the world the younger generation, such as this great singer:

• Video Link

I suppose there will be a few French singers here and there, but in minor roles, and not displayed prominently the way Aya Nakamura, Céline Dion or Lady Gaga will be displayed. Yet Juliette Armanet (above) could make as great a performance as Céline Dion in the 1996 Atlanta games if only they had thought of her.

[harls]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

If I were asking someone for the time or directions, I'd be as likely, if not more likely, to start with "Excuse me" than "Hello". I like to think that I am never inadvertently rude.

Yes, but how do you say it?

EXCUSE me, you, how do I get to such and such a place..

or

Excuse me, would you happen to know the directions to ..


See?

[Acajack]

I love Mylène Farmer. Would be great!

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Ozabald

Should have brought Mitsou over from Quebec and she could have sung Les Chinois; outfit and all!

The French don't know Mitsou. Their loss.

[Acajack]

490 years ago today, Jacques Cartier landed at Gaspé. Where and when it all started for this thread.

[New Brisavoine]

The article in the Financial Times tonight is even more ominous than I thought...

How Olympics opening ceremony director Thomas Jolly found himself in a culture war

Financial Times
July 24, 2024

[...]


Among the authors Jolly selected to write the opening ceremony’s narrative with him (about which he cannot disclose much) are the novelist Leïla Slimani and the historian Patrick Boucheron, two outspoken critics of attempts to erase France’s colonial past and of its social inequality. That puts Jolly at odds with some of President Emmanuel Macron’s own policies, although Gauthier stressed that there has been “no political interference” with artistic decisions.

[...]

https://www.ft.com/content/d15a9822-...0-6bd0a4a12098

You only have to look at his picture to understand everything. Entrusting the largest show on Earth and a once-in-a-century showcase of France to your typical young leftist woke type. Typically Macron!



I've never understood the "no political interference, the artist is free to do whatever pleases him", but it's so typical of France! As if the government, which represents us, should have no say in an event that will symbolize France for one or two generations! It was already the same in 1989, so I'm not too surprised...

France has something called Le Puy du Fou which is very good at organizing massive historical shows, and is the largest and most successful organizer of shows in the world after Disney, drawing millions of people, about to open a massive historical park in China, etc, but of course they didn't ask Le Puy du Fou to use its expertise to direct this opening ceremony, because Le Puy du Fou is a symbol of the Right (Christian past of France and all that), and only the Left is supposed to organize the opening ceremony of course! Complete with a colonial discourse completely out of place for such an event if that's the road they have chosen to follow...

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

490 years ago today, Jacques Cartier landed at Gaspé. Where and when it all started for this thread.

I had never realized de Gaulle had chosen precisely that day to make his famous speech in Montréal! But that doesn't surprise me coming from him, as he was a man who knew history very well, and was very fond of symbols.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Ontario's cultural identity was its loyalty to the British Empire, so when that empire stopped being a thing, it didn't really have much left. So multiculturalism was grafted onto the province really easily, as it was replacing nothing. It's kind of like if America stopped existing as a unified country - what would places like Ohio or Illinois, whose whole identity is being "the American heartland", be anymore if there is no America to be a heartland of?

You can't generalize Ontario as being that way in the past. Northern Ontario definitely isn't and never has been. The multiculturalism thing has been promoted more recently though and especially in the cities. But it's not seen the same way as in the GTA.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

I suppose there will be a few French singers here and there, but in minor roles, and not displayed prominently the way Aya Nakamura, Céline Dion or Lady Gaga will be displayed. Yet Juliette Armanet (above) could make as great a performance as Céline Dion in the 1996 Atlanta games if only they had thought of her.

It's interesting that Céline performed the Olympics in Atlanta in 1996 and likely now in 2024 in Paris. I don't remember her singing at the Olympics in Calgary or Vancouver. Canadians knew better
But Nickelback did perform in Vancouver...

[Acajack]

Le Puy du Fou is awesome!

Le Puy du Fou is awesome!







Le Puy du Fou is awesome! We went there with our kids about 10 years ago. We've sent several otherfriends there over the years.

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

..

France has something called Le Puy du Fou which is very good at organizing massive historical shows, and is the largest and most successful organizer of shows in the world after Disney, drawing millions of people, about to open a massive historical park in China, etc, but of course they didn't ask Le Puy du Fou to use its expertise to direct this opening ceremony, because Le Puy du Fou is a symbol of the Right (Christian past of France and all that), and only the Left is supposed to organize the opening ceremony of course! Complete with a colonial discourse completely out of place for such an event if that's the road they have chosen to follow...