Stadiums and Arenas of Canada part 2

[FrankieFlowerpot]

The last 4 days of posts need to be deleted.

Or someone needs to start a "bitch about another cities sports fans" thread.

This is a thread about stadia and arena. There's a sports in Canadian culture to use to bitch about the CFL and NFL.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by thoughtsandrobots

. Finally, to the person who questions if the Raptors had passed the Leafs? In Forbes valuation yes. At least temporarily.

Toronto Blue Jays (2017) 1.30 billion USD
Toronto Raptors (2017) 1.13 billion USD
Toronto Maple Leafs (2016) 1.10 billion USD

It was me. So that's what you meant.

Team valuations aren't solely about what happens in the city where they are based.

In the case of Raptors vs. Leafs the value of national TV contracts enters into the value of every team in their respective leagues.

It so happens that the NHL's national TV contracts are worth about 7 billion dollars.

And the NBA's TV contract? 25 billion dollars.

[khabibulin]

Originally Posted by osmo

NFL does not do corporate ownership. When Rogers was musing the Bils it was old Ted Rogers and his own personal money on the table.

How many Canadians have the cash and are spires crazy enough to tempt to get into the NFL? The fact they would have to foot a large chunk of the stadium bill as well lends me to believe it is a pipe dream at the moment.

Why would the owner of a NFL team in Toronto need to be a Canadian?

[Coldrsx]

http://i.imgur.com/DE55JzY.jpg

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by khabibulin

Why would the owner of a NFL team in Toronto need to be a Canadian?

I don't think they need to be.
So a global multi-billionare wants to get into the ownership game. You would think that coming to Toronto would be a no brainer right? That lower Canadian dollar would save them millions in purchasing the land, building the stadium and paying the non-football operations people. They wouldn't have to care about the gate because the TV deal covers their yearly operations costs for the team, plus the sweetheart Canadian TV deal just adds more to the bottom line. And since you bought the land and built the stadium with your own money you would also take in all the parking and concession fees. Sounds like a winner to me! How can I get into this action?

So why hasn't this happened?

Maybe because the US model for the NFL is to blackmail the city, county and state into giving up the land, foregoing taxes and paying for most of the construction of the building. While at the same time the owner of the team rakes in the parking and concession revenue. AFAIK the city, region and province have not given any indication that they'll whore themselves that far to get an NFL Team.
I think a few NFL owners have paid for their own stadium (Jerry Jones in Dallas and Paul Allen in Seattle) but that is the exception rather than the rule.

So I'm sure some very well heeled and smart people have kicked the tires for a NFL team in Toronto but for the time being, IMHO the ROI just doesn't seem to be there.

[Hackslack]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

I believe they're in the middle of cow-tipping season, Saskatoon's in the playoffs next week (Canada's team!), "Come on you mooOOooo's!!!"

Stop trying to mock western Canadian prairie folk... sad but true, That cow-tipping would be a hell of a lot more exciting and entertaining than trying to sit through a TFC game. What percentage of the "matches" have been tied this year haha! I'm sure it would be demonstrated as well by getting better tv ratings than that of MLS, I mean, the Scotties Tournament of Hearts gets more attention than TFC.

I'll give you limited number of TFC fans credit tho, the ones who do actually go to the game, it seems like you entertain yourselves very well, jumping and singing and dancing and waving flags, obviously alcohol induced. Certainly not the pace or product on the field, errr pitch... Seems fun. Truthfully.

[many]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

I don't think they need to be.
So a global multi-billionare wants to get into the ownership game. You would think that coming to Toronto would be a no brainer right? That lower Canadian dollar would save them millions in purchasing the land, building the stadium and paying the non-football operations people. They wouldn't have to care about the gate because the TV deal covers their yearly operations costs for the team, plus the sweetheart Canadian TV deal just adds more to the bottom line. And since you bought the land and built the stadium with your own money you would also take in all the parking and concession fees. Sounds like a winner to me! How can I get into this action?

So why hasn't this happened?

Maybe because the US model for the NFL is to blackmail the city, county and state into giving up the land, foregoing taxes and paying for most of the construction of the building. While at the same time the owner of the team rakes in the parking and concession revenue. AFAIK the city, region and province have not given any indication that they'll whore themselves that far to get an NFL Team.
I think a few NFL owners have paid for their own stadium (Jerry Jones in Dallas and Paul Allen in Seattle) but that is the exception rather than the rule.

So I'm sure some very well heeled and smart people have kicked the tires for a NFL team in Toronto but for the time being, IMHO the ROI just doesn't seem to be there.

You are right about the nfl blackmailing cities but that goes for all sports leagues, the only reason why it doesn't happen in the cfl is there is no place for them to go

[khabibulin]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

I don't think they need to be.
So a global multi-billionare wants to get into the ownership game. You would think that coming to Toronto would be a no brainer right? That lower Canadian dollar would save them millions in purchasing the land, building the stadium and paying the non-football operations people. They wouldn't have to care about the gate because the TV deal covers their yearly operations costs for the team, plus the sweetheart Canadian TV deal just adds more to the bottom line. And since you bought the land and built the stadium with your own money you would also take in all the parking and concession fees. Sounds like a winner to me! How can I get into this action?

So why hasn't this happened?

Maybe because the US model for the NFL is to blackmail the city, county and state into giving up the land, foregoing taxes and paying for most of the construction of the building. While at the same time the owner of the team rakes in the parking and concession revenue. AFAIK the city, region and province have not given any indication that they'll whore themselves that far to get an NFL Team.
I think a few NFL owners have paid for their own stadium (Jerry Jones in Dallas and Paul Allen in Seattle) but that is the exception rather than the rule.

So I'm sure some very well heeled and smart people have kicked the tires for a NFL team in Toronto but for the time being, IMHO the ROI just doesn't seem to be there.

Exactly. I thought the ego rush of owning a NFL team, getting into an exclusive club of multi billionaires, and playing with the big boys would have them lining up at the door. As far as the ROI, for that crowd the losses could be a great write off. And if the growth in team values continues, the capital gains might cover any potential losses.

[king10]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

Which just goes to show you how quickly Toronto FC's popularity is increasing. Expansion from 22,000 to 30,000 seemed overly ambitious for a few months, but then attendance grew and sold out the stadium a number of times that year.

TFC's average attendance last year was 26,500 (not including playoffs when they sold out the 36,000 seats in days). Up several thousand from the year before, which was also up over a thousand from the year before that. It will likely hit capacity next year. It's definitely going to warrant another expansion in a few years, tops.

And expansion to 30,000 for the Argos? lol They can barely get 16,000 to their games. In MLSE's own words, Toronto FC is the main tenant, and frankly it's the fastest growing franchise in Canada, your "grounded context" is all wrong.

Literally take off the rose coloured glasses and stop drinking the kool aid. Are you paid by the post by tfc?

I tried to add a level respectful comment and you spew that raw raw cheer leading post. Give it up. Tfc isnt the best thing since sliced bread.

You need to come back down to earth.... get grounded....

Most tfc fans are great. But ones like you who think their shit doesnt stink give a bad name for the majority. This coming from a tfc fan that attends at least half a dozen games a yr. stop giving us a bad rep.

[osmo]

Canada should of never followed the USA model in not having a specific "national stadium". Due to Canada's derth of quality international level facility just having one, just one, stadium that seats 80K and is used for national events in soccer, football, track, rugby, etc would be great.

The petty regional politics of the country would ensure that nobody would be happy what city it is placed in though. Obvious is Toronto, but you can make the case for Vancouver (climate), or Montreal (Bi-lingual, replace Big O), even Calgary (it isn't any of the big 3, escapes poltical petty talk; would be like Dallas with AT&T Stadium quietly as a the nations largest facility).

[EpicPonyTime]

Originally Posted by osmo

Canada should of never followed the USA model in not having a specific "national stadium". Due to Canada's derth of quality international level facility just having one, just one, stadium that seats 80K and is used for national events in soccer, football, track, rugby, etc would be great.

The petty regional politics of the country would ensure that nobody would be happy what city it is placed in though. Obvious is Toronto, but you can make the case for Vancouver (climate), or Montreal (Bi-lingual, replace Big O), even Calgary (it isn't any of the big 3, escapes poltical petty talk; would be like Dallas with AT&T Stadium quietly as a the nations largest facility).

I don't know if it was so much following the USA model as it was the two countries developing a sports culture where a national stadium isn't necessary. Here in Canada (and the US as well, to a limited degree) just don't require these massive, centralised stadiums. A national stadium is good for when people from across the country want to see a game, but that's not feasible here due to size. We also just don't participate in the sports that require them; none of the sports you listed could fill a 80K stadium in Canada. I'm sure the only one that could is hockey.

In all fairness Olympic should be the national stadium given its size, but it's a dumpster fire. Had it been as successful as originally intended, I'm sure it would have been the home to our national teams. But it's not, so we don't have one, and honestly I don't think we need one.

[SaskScraper]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate
-Toronto FC has won the Canadian Championships a number of times, including last year.

-Toronto Rock have won multiple times including in 2011.

-Toronto Rush has also won a Championship in 2013.

Originally Posted by thoughtsandrobots

You win Mister C.

well that settles it, when the lastest pinnacle to Toronto sports league Championships is fresbiee then Mister C will win every time,

congratulations to Toronto & its citizens on their incredible sporting success!

..sadly all Saskatchewan can muster up in last few years is a 2013 Grey Cup, NLL Championship 2016 title & the last seven consecutive Canadian Bowl Championships

http://globalnews.ca/news/3063765/saskatoon-hilltops-defend-canadian-bowl-title/

[esquire]

As a Winnipegger let me just say I am not OK with the discussion turning to comparing the number of recent championships.

[speedog]

An announce,end this coming Monday in Calgary regarding a possible new location for a new arena, purported to be just to the north of the Saddledome with a land swap between the CoC and the Stampede that most likely see the Saddle dome being transferred to the Stampede in exchange for two city blocks currently owned by the Stampede. One existing LRT line is nearby, future Green line will probably see a station integrated right into a new arena and with the Stampede owning the Saddle dome, I suspect a very strong attempt will be made to bring the Canadian Finals Rodeo to Calgary. This deal would eventually allow the COC to redevelop the west village lands into a densely developed residential area that would bring way more tax revenues into the CoC's coffers.

[esquire]

^ Pretty cool... I think Calgary is big enough to support two full-scale arenas. It would be nice to see the Saddledome continue to be used the same way that the Pacific Coliseum still is in Vancouver. It's not really even that old, it should have a lot of life left.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by esquire

As a Winnipegger let me just say I am not OK with the discussion turning to comparing the number of recent championships.

It always surprises me that no one notices that we have a Stanley Cup drought that is over twice as long as Toronto's: 116 years vs. a mere 50. The Leafs are barely getting started.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ Pretty cool... I think Calgary is big enough to support two full-scale arenas. It would be nice to see the Saddledome continue to be used the same way that the Pacific Coliseum still is in Vancouver. It's not really even that old, it should have a lot of life left.

As they can't do much with the land because it is a flood plain, I could see the Saddledome remaining in place after another arena is constructed.

[GernB]

Originally Posted by tomthumb2

We're going to see how the CFL/Stampeders rank in importance on Monday:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/arena-vision-plan-b-report-city-council-1.4079031

If initial reports are true and the Stamps only get some "minor" improvements to McMahon stadium - it won't be great news for the long term health of that franchise, IMO.

The fact that the U of C owns McMahon Stadium and the land it sits on precludes anything other than very minor improvements being made IMO.

[GernB]

Originally Posted by speedog

An announce,end this coming Monday in Calgary regarding a possible new location for a new arena, purported to be just to the north of the Saddledome with a land swap between the CoC and the Stampede that most likely see the Saddle dome being transferred to the Stampede in exchange for two city blocks currently owned by the Stampede. One existing LRT line is nearby, future Green line will probably see a station integrated right into a new arena and with the Stampede owning the Saddle dome, I suspect a very strong attempt will be made to bring the Canadian Finals Rodeo to Calgary. This deal would eventually allow the COC to redevelop the west village lands into a densely developed residential area that would bring way more tax revenues into the CoC's coffers.

If the Saddledome is transferred to the Stampede I hope it can/will be repurposed a la Northlands in Edmonton.

[DLLB]

Originally Posted by GernB

The fact that the U of C owns McMahon Stadium and the land it sits on precludes anything other than very minor improvements being made IMO.

Exactly. It's too bad because it is a disgrace to Calgary.