YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Air China adding back more capacity to PEK.

CA997/998 (the additional flight) will now be operated with a 333 instead of a 332. CA's 333s have almost the same capacity as their 77Ws. This flight will also operate daily for longer this summer than last.

Then there is the addition of a third flight (CA631/632) on days 2,4,6 from 16 August to 6 September.

So with the upgauge of 997/998, double daily for longer and the addition of 631/632 capacity this summer will actually be higher than last summer now.

Also AC increasing capacity on YVR-PEK to the HD 400 seater.

A 3rd flight? so 17 per week?

If so that's nuts. Could be the first airline to go 3x daily to YVR.

Just looked up the 333 on Air China, definitely lower yield plane. no first and a ton of economy.

[LeftCoaster]

Wow ran the numbers on that "adding back more capacity"

If I understood you correctly looks like Air China went from 3,836 seats per week to 5,202 seats per week. That's the equivalent of adding a daily 787!

They sure added back some capacity!

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

A 3rd flight? so 17 per week?

If so that's nuts. Could be the first airline to go 3x daily to YVR.

Just looked up the 333 on Air China, definitely lower yield plane. no first and a ton of economy.

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Wow ran the numbers on that "adding back more capacity"

If I understood you correctly looks like Air China went from 3,836 seats per week to 5,202 seats per week. That's the equivalent of adding a daily 787!

They sure added back some capacity!

Yup a third flight so 17 weekly for about 3 weeks mid August to early September. This was the equivalent period last year when CA was double daily 77W.

And yes lower yielding plane but it does have a premium economy or economy plus type seating as well.

I have a feeling it must just be cycling issues for this period but the fact they have replaced the 332 with the 333 and then added the additional three weekly 332 flight must have meant they stripped too much away. Forward bookings must be really good.

Perhaps the increased capacity to the US on AC (codeshare with CA) (SEA, PDX, SJC, SAN, EWR, ORD... etc) is helping.

As for third daily I know you meant third daily by an international carrier on an overseas route... However, back in the day when Oasis existed, CX added a third daily to HKG. Didn't last long after Oasis folded.

[nname]

The two flights are pretty much full now.

R/t on AC in late Aug and early Sept is about $2500. R/t on CA for the same period is about $4000.

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

If so that's nuts. Could be the first airline to go 3x daily to YVR.

And don't forget AC/CA codeshare with each other on YVR-PEK flight. So pretty much already 3x daily in term of availability in the booking system.

[LeftCoaster]

This allows Beijing to leapfrog Hong Kong for busiest route (very temporarily as HK is much stronger through the year).



Pretty nuts amount of capacity going between YVR-PEK.

Just to put it into perspective at 5,200 seats per week Air China alone is moving twice as many people as the entirety of YEG's intl' widebody operations and would account for 1/3 of YYCs entire intl' widebody operation.

[Alpine]

I haven't heard much news on TK bilateral negotiations as of late. Is AC throwing a fit and asking the Trudeau government to prevent TK from getting a YVR-IST slot?

Considering how I feel about Erdoğan (I don't have a high opinion of him), I can't believe I'm rooting so hard for a flight to Istanbul. I'm a hypocrite. But at least let me tell you my reasoning. A nonstop flight from YVR to DXB, DOH or IST would make flying to Subsaharan Africa much cheaper. Right now the cheapest 1-stop fares to Addis Ababa (a YVRYYZ AC flight + ET503 YYZADD, or LH via FRA) is C$1700-1800. That's really the only reason why I want it. Like with DXB, most of the world's population lives within short flying time to IST, though I haven't seen any hard numbers about that as I have with DXB (1/3 of the world's population lives within 4 hours' flying time of DXB and over 2/3 lives within 8 hours' flying time, according to Dubai Airports; I assume DOH is similar since the two airports are only 380 km apart).

Leftcoaster, Johnny Aussie and other users who know a lot about the business of aviation, do you think there are strong business cases to be made for nonstop flights from Vancouver to the following destinations:

• U.S. locations that YVR doesn't have yet (threshold of being at least 3-4x weekly and non-seasonal): Miami, Boston, Cincinnati, Atlanta, DC (either Dulles or BWI)
  
• Southeast Asia: YVRSIN mostly, but there's also BKK, KUL and CGK to consider, and with the shifting geopolitical tides as of late, HAN or even RGN.
  
• Latin America: Besides the recent 2x daily service to YVR-MEX (which thankfully will continue into 2017!), YVR has no flights to Latin America that aren't charter or "sun and sand" flights. Brazil is an economic power, while Colombia and Chile are fast-developing economies. Think of the possibilities: GRU, GIG, BOG, LIM, SCL, EZE...maybe even CCS one day, if Maduro can be stopped and Venezuela gets on the right track with economic development.

The way I see it, if AC can make nonstop YVRDEL work, who knows what else can happen? And, such a flight will have to fly over the 'Stans to avoid not only the highest peaks of the Himalayas, but also Kashmir (whose airspace is closed). This will probably add another 400-500 km to the journey. I wouldn't be surprised if AC72/73 closes in on the 12,000 km (!) mark.

More musings about Latin America. To get to EZE or GRU from YVR, it's still markedly cheaper to connect through a U.S. airport (like IAH, LAX or MIA) than 1-stop flights through MEX (AM697 or AC996). This is unlike YVRDXB fares, a few years ago the cheapest fares were YVR-SEA-DXB, but now connecting through Europe or YYZ is about $100-300 cheaper than connecting through SEA.

[Klazu]

Damn, Xiamen Airlines is having having a sale for many South East Asia destinations in September. Bangkok for $718, Singapore $782, Kuala Lumpur $711, Taipei $707. Also China Eastern continues to discount seats to many destinations. Delhi for $755!

I guess it's a low-season for the area, but still. Seemingly the competition between YVR newcomers is also fierce. Now I just wish I would have some time off to snatch some of these deals.

[zahav]

Hmm this was posted yesterday online, Air China is cancelling it's planned 3-weekly flights Shanghai-San Jose, and was to be operated by A330 (it didn't say in the artical if it was -200 or -300). Probably where the extra capacity is coming from. Again, says a lot about the strength of our route that they cancelled a route even before launch and shifting even more capacity here.

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airl...d-shanghai-san-jose-ca-june-2016-launch/

[mezzanine]

Originally Posted by Alpine

U.S. locations that YVR doesn't have yet (threshold of being at least 3-4x weekly and non-seasonal): Miami, Boston, Cincinnati, Atlanta, DC (either Dulles or BWI)

IMO YVR-ABQ might also capture a lot of asia-bound traffic. I hope YVR can corner AC's western USA catchment but I think AC already has a YYZ-ABQ flight

More musings about Latin America. To get to EZE or GRU from YVR, it's still markedly cheaper to connect through a U.S. airport (like IAH, LAX or MIA) than 1-stop flights through MEX (AM697 or AC996).

I think the niche is for travelers who want to avoid a transfer in the USA. From what I can google, you can transfer at MEX without a Mexican visa, but the process may be more difficult in practice.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by mezzanine

IMO YVR-ABQ might also capture a lot of asia-bound traffic. I hope YVR can corner AC's western USA catchment but I think AC already has a YYZ-ABQ flight .....................

Am I being overly wary of YYZ when it seems funny they have an ABQ flight and YVR does not? Also, YYZ has an MCI flight. Would not MCI also be a possible feeder to YVR? ...

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by Klazu

Damn, Xiamen Airlines is having having a sale for many South East Asia destinations in September. Bangkok for $718, Singapore $782, Kuala Lumpur $711, Taipei $707. Also China Eastern continues to discount seats to many destinations. Delhi for $755!

I guess it's a low-season for the area, but still. Seemingly the competition between YVR newcomers is also fierce. Now I just wish I would have some time off to snatch some of these deals.

I was looking at Delhi in November, to take advantage of the new direct, and it was $725 round trip on China Eastern! Good times too, 20 hours of travel time vs 14 on the direct.

Good news is it seems AC must be seeing quality demand for their direct to DEL as fares were nearly $1,700 return.

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Am I being overly wary of YYZ when it seems funny they have an ABQ flight and YVR does not? Also, YYZ has an MCI flight. Would not MCI also be a possible feeder to YVR? ...

Air Canada does not fly to ABQ.

Also Kansas city is SIGNIFICANTLY closer to YYZ than YVR. IN fact YVR is twice as far from KC as Toronto is. No idea why you would think MCI would fall into a YVR catchment zone.

Bottom line is YYZ is closer to the entire United States just west of the rockies... and that's most of it. For instance Houston, considered the west, is 1,000km closer to YYZ than it is YVR.

[mezzanine]

my bad about ABQ-YYZ. that being said, IMO ABQ has a large gap in service among comparable US airports. I can see an AC ABQ-YVR potential, similar to SJC-YVR. aside from the tourism draw to new mexico, I can see tech workers in ABQ/Los Alamos wanting more access to intern'l destinations.

[mezzanine]

First Brisbane flight leaves YVR tonight!

The flights are timed to connect passengers to and from Air Canada's domestic and U.S. network, and will be the fastest route for travellers going from Brisbane to New York, supporting YVR's ambitions as a premier North American gateway.

[excel]

Wow did not know that. Should be a successful route then.

[Johnny Aussie]

And AC896 (the second daily to LHR) is taxiing to 08R For departure as I type this.

Edit: and airborne.

Twitter feed had quite a lot from YVR and AC about the launch of the second daily flight including (what looked like) a massive double-decker bus cake.

Edit: and the Brisbane gate now decked out in beach gear, a big surf wave cake and some other Aussie faves like lamingtons and pavlovas.

Edit: AC35 to BNE now airborne. Departed off 08L.

[ShawnShank]

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airl...ncouver-operation-changes-as-of-02jun16/

China Southern brings back 788 (instead of 77W) between December 1st and March 26th

[LeftCoaster]

They also just shelved their planned YYZ-CAN route.

Not sure why they're scaling back so much.

[SFUVancouver]

With such a large fleet (600+), China Southern likely juggles its aircraft frequently, especially for planned routes and those that are highly seasonal. Per Wikipedia, China Southern only has nine 773ERs in its fleet, along with four high capacity (domestic) 772s that they're phasing out. They have 10 788s in their fleet, which have 81 fewer seats than their 773ER (228 vs 309). Otherwise, China Southern is a heavily Airbus fleet for its long haul operations. They have 16 A332s, 19 A333s, and 5 A380s.

[Edit] I don't trust the Wikipedia numbers at all. Planespotters.net have vastly different numbers: https://www.planespotters.net/airline/China-Southern-Airlines

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

They also just shelved their planned YYZ-CAN route.

Not sure why they're scaling back so much.

The YVR "reduction" is just back to what they were flying last winter anyway so it's just a seasonal adjustment.

[Klazu]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

With such a large fleet (600+), China Southern likely juggles its aircraft frequently, especially for planned routes and those that are highly seasonal.

They have 500+ planes in service which is a lot, but not quite 600. I had not realized they were that big of an airline.