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  #901  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2022, 8:04 PM
UpwithOlives UpwithOlives is offline
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You still don't get it. Let me help you out...

Home, is where I want to be
But I guess I'm already there
I come home, she lifted up her wings
Guess that this must be the place
I can't tell one from another
The less we say about it the better
Make it up as we go along...
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  #902  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2022, 8:34 PM
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You still don't get it. Let me help you out...
Not necessary.
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  #903  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2022, 4:26 AM
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  #904  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2022, 4:10 AM
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https://nylandmarks.org/news/last-chance-to-speak-out-against-destruction-around-penn-station/

Last Chance to Speak Out Against Destruction Around Penn Station


Quote:
The National Trust for Historic Preservation has now joined the Conservancy, and other local groups, in opposition to Governor Hochul’s plan to level large blocks around Penn Station, destroy dozens of architecturally significant buildings, and promote the creation of giant towers rivaling Hudson Yards.

In a January 7 letter to Empire State Development (ESD), the Trust agreed with us that the area around the station contains significant historic structures and is not the “substandard and insanitary area” the State describes. It also agreed that the State’s approach “is hauntingly reminiscent of the failed urban renewal strategy of the 1960s.”

The State has acknowledged that the project will require federal review. But the Trust said the State is subverting that review by “segmenting” the project. The State insists ”revitalization” efforts around Penn are one project, and that the reconstruction and expansion of the Station is separate. The Trust rejected that, noting that the federal review process requires looking at a project in its entirety.

The letter also warned that keeping the projects separate, and demolishing historic structures before a complete federal review, may jeopardize obtaining federal permits and funding.

The letter also echoes local criticism that ESD has “fast-tracked” its own review with only limited opportunities for public comment. We encouraged the Trust to become involved and are grateful for their thoughtful and detailed letter.

ESD is holding part two of a prior public hearing this Thursday, January 20. More than 200 persons signed up to testify last month—most of them, like us, in opposition.

So a continuation of the hearing was necessary to hear everyone out. Thursday is the last chance for public comment before the State submits its Environmental Impact Statement for federal review.

Let’s hope the Trust’s letter is a wake-up call for the State. ESD must quit avoiding a public discussion of how, and if, the new buildings would fund Station improvements. It’s time for a response to criticism of the Project and the thoughtful alternatives proposed. It’s time for the federal agencies to hold the State to a comprehensive review.

There is no need to sacrifice the diverse buildings, offices, businesses, apartments, and pubs that give the blocks around the station their unique character. Outside of some government officials and planners, no one is clamoring for another Hudson Yards.




https://patch.com/new-york/midtown-nyc/no-madison-square-garden-not-moving-hells-kitchen

No, Madison Square Garden Is Not Moving To Hell's Kitchen
A dubious news article said DeWitt Clinton Park would be bulldozed for a sports arena. The governor's office says it's pure fiction.










Nick Garber
Jan 13, 2022


Quote:
Earlier this week, news of a project that would reshape the West Side of Manhattan was published on a little-known website and shared widely in the neighborhood. Gov. Kathy Hochul's administration planned to bulldoze DeWitt Clinton Park, the beloved Hell's Kitchen green space, to make way for a brand-new Madison Square Garden, the article claims.

The hundreds of people who have shared the story were likely unaware of one key fact: the article appears to be entirely fictional.

"It's completely false," said Matthew Gorton, a spokesperson for Empire State Development, the state corporation named in the fake story as one of the plan's key actors. "No truth to it whatsoever."

The story appeared Monday on a website called The Buffalo Chronicle, headlined "Kathy Hochul is preparing to relocate Madison Square Garden." Though its name evokes the title of a stalwart local newspaper, the Chronicle is in fact a known purveyor of fake news, having sown misinformation about the 2020 U.S. Presidential race and conspiracy theories about Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau.
Quote:
The nearly 900-word article lays out a detailed description of the arena's supposed relocation from its current home atop Penn Station. Hochul intends to hire a "star architect" to design the building, it asserts, adding that the plan has the support of MSG owner James Dolan.

Hochul's office flatly rebutted the claims.

"This is obviously not true and is misinformation," spokesperson Avi Small told Patch.

Still, more than 3,700 people had interacted with the story on Facebook by Thursday evening, drawing more than 2,100 comments, according to the analysis tool CrowdTangle — plus more on Twitter. On a Hell's Kitchen Facebook group, residents bemoaned the apparent loss of their neighborhood park.

"Hells Kitchen better stand up and turn down this offer!!!" one resident wrote. "We def don't need MSG in our children's playground!"

A closer look at the story might have tipped readers off to its unreliability. It says the state would use eminent domain to acquire DeWitt Clinton Park from the city — but eminent domain applies only to the taking of private property.

Other claims in the story verge on the fantastical. To enable commuter access to the new arena, a light-rail system would be built along West 53rd Street, the story says, citing unnamed "sources." Meanwhile, an enormous public square would supposedly be built atop the Garden's current site.



Case in point....



https://www.change.org/p/new-york-state-...ng-the-location-of-madison-square-garden

Stop New York Governor Kathy Hochul from changing the location of Madison Square Garden.





Quote:
Governor Kathy Hochul wants to move the location of the World's Most Famous Arena, Madison Square Garden, located at 4 Pennsylvania Plaza, New York, NY, 10001. As a lifelong New York Rangers and New York Knicks fan, I can't imagine MSG being in another location that isn't on Pennsylvania Plaza. With the original location of MSG being in Madison Square Park, Pennsylvania Plaza has been home to MSG since 1968.

The move to Dewitt Clinton Park would cost New York taxpayers $800 million USD. When MSG is already in perfect condition, and easily accessible from Penn Station, Grand Central, and the subway system. MSG was also recently renovated, during 2011-2013. MSG was granted a 10 year operating permit in 2013. If MSG wanted to continue operating when the permit is up, in 2023, they would have to reapply, or move arenas.

I think moving arenas, and using taxpayer dollars on something that could be avoided by a permit when those taxpayer dollars could be going towards paving the major highways and major bridges in and out of NYC and everywhere else in the state, is an honestly dumb move.

If MSG moves to Dewitt Clinton Park, this will affect all the Long Island Rangers and Knicks fans. They take the Long Island Railroad, also known as LIRR, into Penn Station, which is saving them money. If this move is approved, less fans from Long Island will want to come to games, which will lose money for the arena, and the team they want to come watch.

With all of this being said, if you agree that there should be no move to Dewitt Clinton Park, please sign this so we can prove to Governor Hochul and James Dolan that we want MSG to stay.
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Last edited by NYguy; Jan 20, 2022 at 4:24 AM.
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  #905  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2022, 5:00 AM
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I thought that the operating permit just related to MSG’s tax break. If it is not renewed in 2023, does MSG have to move? It’s my understanding that the Dolans one the land and the building.

MSG belongs in the Bronx, which is convenient to Manhattan, Westchester, Connecticut, and NJ. Scores of people get to Yankee Stadium with no problem. A new MSG near YS would help to revitalize that area.
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  #906  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2022, 5:47 AM
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I'm gonna respond to this guy's nonsense on his petition page, I wonder if he'll respond to me?
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  #907  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2022, 4:41 PM
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this guy goofy.
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  #908  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2022, 5:08 PM
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Originally Posted by JMKeynes View Post
MSG belongs in the Bronx, which is convenient to Manhattan, Westchester, Connecticut, and NJ. Scores of people get to Yankee Stadium with no problem. A new MSG near YS would help to revitalize that area.
I really can't tell if you're joking or not.



Quote:
Originally Posted by MAC123 View Post
I'm gonna respond to this guy's nonsense on his petition page, I wonder if he'll respond to me?
He's in an alternate reality, same as the NIMBYs. But I could understand his frustration, IF the moving were a real thing.

But it reminds me of another thing. That plaza planned for site 2, between the two towers, (along with Plaza 33) will be overtaken by Knicks and Rangers fans on game days and nights.
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  #909  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2022, 5:29 PM
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I’m serious. It would be a great asset to the Yankee Stadium area. Small, lame cities in the South and Midwest need downtown stadiums to attract life. NY does not. I’d much rather have an iconic Penn Station here than one of the worst arenas in pro sports.
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  #910  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2022, 5:37 PM
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MSG isn't going anywhere in our lifetimes. People probably trying just to gum up the works for the redevelopment of the surrounding parcels which should have happened long ago anyway, with the exception of the eastern end of block 780.
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  #911  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2022, 6:47 PM
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MSG isn't going anywhere in our lifetimes. People probably trying just to gum up the works for the redevelopment of the surrounding parcels which should have happened long ago anyway, with the exception of the eastern end of block 780.
Sadly, I agree. Therefore, we'll be stuck spending billions of dollars on limited improvements that will still leave Penn incredibly lame.
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  #912  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2022, 7:40 PM
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Originally Posted by JMKeynes View Post
Sadly, I agree. Therefore, we'll be stuck spending billions of dollars on limited improvements that will still leave Penn incredibly lame.
The plan/vision that had MSG moving a block east between Broadway and 7th Ave on W 32-34th Street with towers around it was interesting and solved most of the problems.

Move MSG.. allowing for a rebuilt modern Penn Station and keep MSG right in the neighborhood!

Not many other options that would make sense once they walked away from the west side of the Farley Building.


https://newyorkyimby.com/2021/01/twin-su...-square-garden-in-midtown-manhattan.html

Last edited by TonyNYC; Jan 20, 2022 at 8:12 PM.
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  #913  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2022, 7:40 PM
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MSG isn't going anywhere in our lifetimes.

I always think it's kind of sadly confounding when I see or hear people say fill-in-the-blank will never happen in my or anyone else's lifetime. My first thought is usually that it just might be the opinion of a person who due to their own age has determined they won't live long enough to see something built or completed, or in this case moved, and therefore selfishly declare that no one else should expect to either. Sort of a "well if I can't have it, neither can you" mentality. Also, I'm sure the age range of SSP members is 12 to 82 so it's just a tad assuming. I'm not saying that is what you were projecting, but it's frustrating when I see it. I'm not near as down on the possibility of a Garden relocation like many on here. Honestly I'd put the odds at 50/50. I'll put it this way, I would be surprised at either outcome.
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  #914  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2022, 7:45 PM
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The plan/vision that had MSG moving a block east between Broadway and 7th Ave on W 32-34th Street with a tower above it was interesting.
Agreed. See my post above about what transport improvements that could also provide.
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  #915  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2022, 8:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Busy Bee View Post
I always think it's kind of sadly confounding when I see or hear people say fill-in-the-blank will never happen in my or anyone else's lifetime. My first thought is usually that it just might be the opinion of a person who due to their own age has determined they won't live long enough to see something built or completed, or in this case moved, and therefore selfishly declare that no one else should expect to either. Sort of a "well if I can't have it, neither can you" mentality. Also, I'm sure the age range of SSP members is 12 to 82 so it's just a tad assuming. I'm not saying that is what you were projecting, but it's frustrating when I see it. I'm not near as down on the possibility of a Garden relocation like many on here. Honestly I'd put the odds at 50/50. I'll put it this way, I would be surprised at either outcome.
I'm "middle aged". The window of opportunity to move the venue has passed for the foreseeable future. Given that they just spent a ton on it and that the state doesn't seem at all inclined to make them move I think my statement was accurate. I absolutely wanted it stuffed into the Farley Annex in conjunction with Moynahan but while coming close didn't get done.
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  #916  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2022, 8:39 PM
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I'm in my late thirties. Even it doesn't happen now, I don't think that a move in 20 years when its time for another expensive revamp is beyond the realm of possible.
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  #917  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2022, 2:28 AM
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I’m serious. It would be a great asset to the Yankee Stadium area. Small, lame cities in the South and Midwest need downtown stadiums to attract life. NY does not. I’d much rather have an iconic Penn Station here than one of the worst arenas in pro sports.
One word for you. Non-starter.



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Originally Posted by k1052 View Post
MSG isn't going anywhere in our lifetimes. People probably trying just to gum up the works for the redevelopment of the surrounding parcels which should have happened long ago anyway, with the exception of the eastern end of block 780.
People hold on to the dream of MSG moving, but it's just that - a dream. It isn't going anywhere, in part because there isn't anywhere for it to go. The best option for a new MSG is to rebuild it in place.

As far as the redevelopment that should have happened decades ago, it's almost unbelievable that it didn't happen. Of course, had 15 Penn gotten underway 15 years ago, we'd be talking about how much the area has redeveloped since then. But if there is anywhere in New York City that can support the type of development they are proposing here, it's the area around Penn Station.

Another point I feel the need to stress, in regards to the NIMBYs, I'm always hearing about the massive towers this development will bring. And I know they don't bother to look into things, or rely on facts as far as it goes. But this redevelopment will only increase what is already allowed to be built by 7 msf. And they often throw in Vornado with the push for the extension, when in fact Vornado's redevelopment was approved and put in place by the city years ago.


As originally proposed by Cuomo, 19 msf





As revised by Hochul, 18 msf

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  #918  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2022, 2:17 PM
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I'm fine with MSG staying right where it is.. they blew the opportunity to move it to the west side of the Farley post office years ago.

Did like that vision that had it moving an avenue east between Broadway/7th and W 32-34th St .. that would've been epic!

But as it is today.. MSG will live on in it's current location.. which is fine by me.. had a ton of memories in that building as a Knicks season ticket holder from 1994-2014, went to dozens of Ranger games there and seen every big Rock band perform there.

The World's Most Famous Arena!

Last edited by TonyNYC; Jan 21, 2022 at 2:34 PM.
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  #919  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2022, 6:57 PM
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Originally Posted by TonyNYC View Post
I'm fine with MSG staying right where it is.. they blew the opportunity to move it to the west side of the Farley post office years ago.

Did like that vision that had it moving an avenue east between Broadway/7th and W 32-34th St .. that would've been epic!

But as it is today.. MSG will live on in it's current location.. which is fine by me.. had a ton of memories in that building as a Knicks season ticket holder from 1994-2014, went to dozens of Ranger games there and seen every big Rock band perform there.

The World's Most Famous Arena!

o geez i .... can't argue this.

very well considered and rock solid.

a small *sigh* i guess and let's move on and up here with the vast majority of the rest of this mega development.
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  #920  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2022, 7:44 PM
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What's funny is that foreverblueshirts Rangers fan site actually posted the fake article. That's a bad look.
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