LeBreton Flats 2.0 (RendezVous LeBreton) | Cancelled

[EdFromOttawa]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I have one complaint about both proposals, and that is the location of LRT stations, so that the centre of this development, the arena, is mid way between two LRT stations. This is a multi-billion dollar development, on a multi-billion dollar transit line. We will have thousands of residents, thousands of employees and thousands of visitors, yet we have our transit stations inconveniently on the periphery. Instead of building a station right into the heart of this development, we are either going to bury it or bridge it.

I think about the experience at CTC and the long walk in a windswept parking lot to your car in the dead of winter. Now, we are substituting possibly a longer walk across a windswept square to access transit. All these outdoor amenities are great spring to fall, but if it is -30C in January, it would be nice to have an integrated transit station. But is there no real willingness by the bidders or the city to really think about this? I hate those red circles on maps saying that a station is close enough. This is supposed to be a massive attraction therefore transit should be very convenient. It is like having St. Laurent station located on the east side of St. Laurent Boulevard instead of next to the shopping centre.

It all seems that this is a federal project and because transit is municipal, the connections are a secondary consideration. Reminds me of the mess at the VIA Rail station with no pedestrian connection to Trainyards, almost a stone's throw away from Tremblay Station. Federal versus municipal and no coordination or cooperation in serving the public well.

I'm confused, did either of you read through both proposals at all? I'm 90% sure the Devcore proposal has the arena built ON TOP OF Bayview station... Maybe I misunderstood..

[Horus]

Originally Posted by EdFromOttawa

I'm confused, did either of you read through both proposals at all? I'm 90% sure the Devcore proposal has the arena built ON TOP OF Bayview station... Maybe I misunderstood..

You are correct. This image shows the arena right next to Bayview station.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by EdFromOttawa

I'm confused, did either of you read through both proposals at all? I'm 90% sure the Devcore proposal has the arena built ON TOP OF Bayview station... Maybe I misunderstood..

I would say beside

[DubberDom]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

I didn't say that the LINE couldn't handle it. I said the STATION. You can flush 18k people in about a half hour, but they're not going to fit on the platforms of one single station!

What is the passenger capacity for LRT x Frequency?

If 4000 riders go east, and 4000 riders go west within 30 minutes of an event, can the LRT handle this capacity?

Say LRT has 300 passengers and frequency of 3 minutes, and incoming LRT is at 25% capacity, that means you have room for around 225 riders... that's 17 LRT's each way, and 51 minutes to empty out

[eemy]

The cross-section they show in the PDF kind of implies that Pimisi Station would be shifted further west anyway. Can anyone verify?

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I would say beside

Thank you for clarifying this. I had not realized that this proposal had placed the arena that far west.

[cr872190]

Are the buildings in the renders place holders? Or are those architecturally accurate to what they plan on constructing?

[Speedy Gonzales]

Originally Posted by cr872190

Are the buildings in the renders place holders? Or are those architecturally accurate to what they plan on constructing?

Oh heavens no. These renderings are designed to illicit false hope. The actual product is gonna be a huge disappointment. In some places they call this a "bait & switch". In Ottawa it's known as "pulling a Landsdowne"

[Mikeed]

I'm still hoping the Bayview Yards lands (owned by the NCC/City) would be home to a new Civic Hospital Campus. As moving a major employment node and hospital to the axis of North/South/East/West would be great for accessibility. Also would create a life sciences area as hospitals are anchors to a larger health care ecosystem.

And I still think it's preferable to extend Gatineau BRT to Bayview Station to turn the area into an interprovincial transit hub in order to get the busses of Wellington Street- but Bayview Station is likely not capable of these demands.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Speedy Gonzales

Oh heavens no. These renderings are designed to illicit false hope. The actual product is gonna be a huge disappointment. In some places they call this a "bait & switch". In Ottawa it's known as "pulling a Landsdowne"

How does Landsdowne differ from what was planned?

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by DubberDom

What is the passenger capacity for LRT x Frequency?

If 4000 riders go east, and 4000 riders go west within 30 minutes of an event, can the LRT handle this capacity?

Say LRT has 300 passengers and frequency of 3 minutes, and incoming LRT is at 25% capacity, that means you have room for around 225 riders... that's 17 LRT's each way, and 51 minutes to empty out

Darwin did an analysis of this at http://www.westsideaction.com/lebett...he-sens-arena/ and concluded that yes, the LRT line has the capacity to drain the arena. He did his math assuming a 24,000 seat arena, too. Both proposals are only 18,000.

As Aylmer mentioned station congestion is important too. Having the arena equidistant to two stations eases the crush loads that will build up at points like fare gates by dividing the stream.

I don't think having a 3-4 minute walk to the stations is a big deal. People walk a lot further than that in the Canadian Tire Centre parking lot which is a much more unpleasant place to walk through. Plus making people walk a bit livens up the site, as Aylmer also pointed out.

Building another station in the middle of the site is a non starter as it would slow down LRT trips.

[1overcosc]

I'd say I prefer the Sens proposal at first glance.

The Devcore one is outlandish and includes far too many things that have the serious potential to be white elephants. By contrast, Sens is way more realistic.

Covering the LRT line is a huge plus for the Sens too.

Another is that the Sens plan, unlike many of our plans here in Ottawa, seems to actually account for the existence of winter. Almost every render in their presentation has both a winter and a summer version and there's lots of ideas to keep it alive in wintertime (with things like firepits, public skating on the aqueduct, etc.). Furthermore, the design of the site itself is way more winter friendly. The DevCore proposal is set up to create wind tunnels and nasty walks, whereas the Sens proposal is a lot "tighter" and thus less difficult to walk through on cold winter days.

[cr872190]

Originally Posted by Speedy Gonzales

Oh heavens no. These renderings are designed to illicit false hope. The actual product is gonna be a huge disappointment. In some places they call this a "bait & switch". In Ottawa it's known as "pulling a Landsdowne"

Im confused, lansdowne looks almost EXACTLY like the renders...

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

The DevCore proposal is set up to create wind tunnels and nasty walks, whereas the Sens proposal is a lot "tighter" and thus less difficult to walk through on cold winter days.

But but "Our Lady of the Condos" and the Richmond Road "wind tunnel" has killed dozens of people to death, no?

[1overcosc]

Darwin's initial opinions actually give points TO DevCore for NOT covering the LRT.

Darwin has this weird idea that underground transit discriminates against transit users by not letting them look outside. It's a very bizarre opinion that I can't agree with, in spite of the fact that I generally agree with Darwin.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by cr872190

Im confused, lansdowne looks almost EXACTLY like the renders...

Aaaaaaand I just discovered theres's a weird hole in time when you go along Bank Street past Lansdowne in Google StreetView.

[zzptichka]

Originally Posted by cr872190

Im confused, lansdowne looks almost EXACTLY like the renders...

There was a bridge in the renders. I don't remember who killed it though

[TheGoods]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Have the community associations been heard from yet?

"2500 tourists a day? NO WAY!"

It seems that they are being engaged and based on this article, it seems that there is no negative feedback to date.

http://www.obj.ca/Real-Estate/Constr...on-president/1

If you are living downtown in a major urban centre, I'm guessing you need to expect tourists.

BTW, when can we start building, sooooo excited!!!!!!!

[acottawa]

http://ottawa.ca/cs/groups/content/@.../con056242.pdf

I think the Lansdowne renders left the impression there was more of a pedestrian focus than ended up happening (with cars all over the place). They also created the impression there would be a more impressive water feature: "water feature with a unique beacon element that would help to define the east edge of the lawn area". The renders showed a more expansive, less paved "orchard" area (and they put a lot more trees in general into the renders). The Lansdowne proponents also created the impression that the retail mix would be more urban than what ended up being there "The uses proposed along Bank Street include ground floor small scale retail that can extend to second floor locations, as well as office and/or residential on the upper floors."They also implied that the retail mix would be destinational than what ended up being there.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

There was a bridge in the renders. I don't remember who killed it though

AFAIK it hasn't been killed at all. It is a separate project from LL.