Rapid Transit

[Jon Dalton]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

GO train service extends to Stoney Creek via the future James Street North station at peak times, in the first 15 years of the plan. A stop wasn't identified but may be Centennial Parkway, Howe said.

I wonder what the implications are for the TH&B station. Previous statements from Metrolinx said peak hour service would remain there.

If they want to connect East Hamilton / Niagara Region with Toronto effectively they need to seriously consider putting tracks back in the beach strip. Going around the bay adds 20-30 minutes to the trip.

In a future regional network Hamilton would maintain connections with Niagara through the James North station, Buffalo through the TH&B, and Toronto through both stations.

[crhayes]

$650 million? I thought they said the B-line was going to cost 1.1B, or was that both the E-W and N-S lines?

[ryan_mcgreal]

Originally Posted by crhayes

$650 million? I thought they said the B-line was going to cost 1.1B, or was that both the E-W and N-S lines?

That was for both lines, but the staff report indicated that the cost for the north-south line would include $175 million for two escarpment cuts to run the line under James Mountain Road.

I'm not sure where the new price for the east-west line has come from, but I've contacted the rapid transit office to ask.

[SteelTown]

Originally Posted by Jon Dalton

I wonder what the implications are for the TH&B station. Previous statements from Metrolinx said peak hour service would remain there.

If they want to connect East Hamilton / Niagara Region with Toronto effectively they need to seriously consider putting tracks back in the beach strip. Going around the bay adds 20-30 minutes to the trip.

In a future regional network Hamilton would maintain connections with Niagara through the James North station, Buffalo through the TH&B, and Toronto through both stations.

As stated in the past TH&B will remain to have GO Train service during rush hour and GO bus service. The future Stoney Creek location will also have GO Train rush hour service as well, it'll likely include GO Bus service as well (probably connecting from Stoney Creek to James St North Station and TH&B Station).

The James St North station will have all day GO Train service. So really GO Train service will be spilt between James St North station and the TH&B station.

[markbarbera]

I could see the Hunter Street GO train route modified so it starts from Welland running west with stops in Lincoln (Smithville), Stoney Creek (at Centennial), Hamilton GO Centre, Aldershot, then express from Aldershot to Toronto Union. Down the road it could extend all the way to Fort Erie (reviving the old TH&B route)

[matt602]

There's no way in hell tracks on the beach strip will happen. That area is being gentrified with townhouses and beach homes.

[ryan_mcgreal]

http://hamiltonlightrail.com/article...date_meetings/

The city's Rapid Transit office is holding two public meetings in December to provide an update on the rapid transit initiative.

First Meeting

* Date: Tuesday, December 2nd, 2008
* Time: 6:00pm - 8:00pm
* Location: Hamilton Convention Centre, Webster Room C
* Address: 1 Summers Lane, Hamilton

Second Meeting

* Date: Thursday, December 4th, 2008
* Time: 6:00pm - 8:00pm
* Location: Barton Stone United Church
* Address: 21 Stone Church Road West (at upper James), Hamilton

A presentation will begin at 6:30pm. The same information will be presented at both meetings.

Note: these meetings are being organized and provided by city government staff, not by Hamilton Light Rail.

This is an important opportunity to communicate to public works staff that the public recognizes the city must be willing to put in about 15% of the capital costs for the east-west LRT line.

Right now, Council's position is that Metrolinx should pay 100% of the capital cost. Metrolinx has indicated that this isn't realistic, though they are prepared to pay "the lion's share" as Metrolinx Chair Rob MacIsaac recently told the Spectator editorial board.

Essentially, Council is telling Metrolinx: light rail is so critical to Hamilton's revitalization that you need to pay for it; but we're not prepared to commit any of our own money to make it happen.

Now, this may be an opening position in the city's negotiations with Metrolinx, but if they intend to stand on this position, it will actually hurt Hamilton's chance at getting provincial LRT money.

Staff (and council) need to hear from Hamiltonians that we are willing to put up some of our own money toward this if that's what it takes to make LRT happen.

[SteelTown]

So Hamilton would have to pay $97.5 million out of the $650 million.

[realcity]

It's not going to Stoney Creek it's going to Eastgate Sq. which is clearly in the Old Hamilton boundry. I wish they would stop calling both sides of Centennial "stoney crick". The border runs east at King and then north on Lake Avenue Road (stupid name -- Avenue Road???) then east again on Barton (south side) on Barton to Greys or Grey Road depending on whom you talk to. Do I have to show my map again. okay.

[realcity]

anyway
it's good news. I hope I live to see it realized/

[SteelTown]

[ryan_mcgreal]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

So Hamilton would have to pay $97.5 million out of the $650 million.

Give or take - though the $650 million price tag seems high. I suspect it has to do with the line running east on one street (Main) and west on another (King), effectively almost doubling the construction cost for the stretch in question.

Remember also that the city wouldn't be paying it all at once. For the next couple of years, the capital budget is constrained by the big financial shadow still being cast by the RHVP construction, but that will start to ease by, say, 2010 (though expansion of the Woodward water treatment facility will put new pressure on the capital budget very soon).

Here's a back-of-the-envelope capital outlay schedule for LRT:


Year Budget
--------------
2010 $10.0 m
2011 $20.0 m
2012 $30.0 m
2013 $37.5 m
---------------
Total $97.5 m


Remember that the city essentially borrows its capital budget, and then services its debt from operating revenues. With some creative thinking, it may be able to tap into new revenue streams to help pay for the LRT portion of the municipal debt. Who knows: in a few years, citizens may be pledging to buy track the way we're currently buying square feet of limestone facade for City Hall.

[SteelTown]

I don't mind paying 15% or less than $100 million. They could spread out the cost over 10 years or more. I'm sure Metrolinx and the government will be flexible.

[ryan_mcgreal]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

They could spread out the cost over 10 years or more. I'm sure Metrolinx and the government will be flexible.

The city needs to borrow the money in the years in which the money is spent. It can then amortize that debt over however many years.

[omro]

Originally Posted by ryan_mcgreal

Give or take - though the $650 million price tag seems high. I suspect it has to do with the line running east on one street (Main) and west on another (King), effectively almost doubling the construction cost for the stretch in question.

Does anyone know if they'll actually consult people to see if people want both lines on one street or a split line?

I still think that contructing a split line seems an unnecessary waste of money

[SteelTown]

"City staff are preparing for the Metrolinx benefits case analysis. City staff hope to recommend their preferred route for light rail transit on Main or King in April, she said."

[omro]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

"City staff are preparing for the Metrolinx benefits case analysis. City staff hope to recommend their preferred route for light rail transit on Main or King in April, she said."

That suggests that it'll be the city staff's preferred route and not necessarily what people would prefer

[coalminecanary]

I think the key part of that quote is "Main or King"

[omro]

Cool, though if it's a case of Main or King, rather than Main and King, that heads back to Ryan's comment about the high price tag. And as he has done, begs the question, why's it costing so much?

[SteelTown]

There'll be no doubt an open house on the preferred route before it's finalized in April. Probably March or Feburary for open houses.