Official Fredericton, NB projects thread

[xxFamilyGuyxx]

I think somewhere in victoria county would be a good place for a QJMHL team.
Nearly alll the small towns in and around that county are very into hockey.

Maybe Plaster Rock (World Pond Hockey Championchisp) or some other small town around that area. But the only thing is they would have to build a rink big enough and Fredericton has that already.

But if Freddy does get the team it would be a great addition for sports fans (like myself) in the western part of the province.

[cl812]

Yeah it would be good, that way there would still be hockey games to go to after the University season is finished which ends in a couple weeks.

[cl812]

Welcome mat won't likely be out for Maine team
Published Thursday March 5th, 2009
A1
By SHAWN BERRY
[email protected]

The Lewiston MAINEiacs are facing an uphill battle in trying to convince the University of New Brunswick to give the QMJHL team a toehold in the city, says former NHLer Danny Grant.

The Fredericton native has been a party to several groups that have looked into the viability of bringing junior and major junior hockey teams to Fredericton in recent years.

"I think UNB has to be very cautious. My first reaction is they have everything to lose," he said.

Grant made the comments Wednesday in reaction to news that the MAINEiacs have had a preliminary discussion with the University of New Brunswick about forging a partnership that would see the team move to Fredericton and use the Aitken University Centre.

The concern is whether bringing a QMJHL team to Fredericton would cut into the bottom line for UNB's Varsity Reds.

Few can imagine that UNB would enter into agreement unless it could be assured that sponsorship funding and ticket sales wouldn't be affected.

The Varsity Reds play 14 home games a year. The MAINEiacs play more than 40.

Grant said UNB is unlikely to jump at any opportunity without exploring the possible repercussions to its hockey program.

"Players see it as one of the top programs in the country, so UNB is the one that has to be very careful."

It's up to UNB to do its homework, he said.

"They're going to listen to Lewiston, but when all is said and done, they aren't going to do this unless someone can answer all their questions and convince them it is going to be beneficial.

"Lewiston's got one heck of a selling job to do," said Grant, who has coached UNB and the Halifax Mooseheads.

The MAINEiacs are in a rush to find a new home.

They gave notice Jan. 31 that they would be leaving the community, located about an hour's drive from Portland.

The team had planned to move to the Montreal suburb of Boisbriand, Que. That option was taken off the table when another team in the league, the Montreal Juniors, enforced territorial rights that extend over Boisbriand.

Grant said setting up a Q team is a major proposition and the teams need to draw good crowds to break even.

There's plenty of cost involved - from ensuring the education of young players to covering the cost of travel over the wide geographic area that spans from Cape Breton to northwestern Quebec.

He said the Moncton team is owned by a member of the Irving family, while the Saint John team is owned by a member of the McCain family.

The team's business plan in Lewiston called for an average of about 3,000 spectators per game.

The Colisee in Lewiston had a capacity of 3,677 spectators, but the best average the team had was 2,800 in 2006-07, the year the MAINEiacs won the President's Cup.

The UNB Varsity Reds have averaged about 2,495 spectators a game this year in the Aitken University Centre, which seats 3,673.

Highly touted exhibition games against Boston College managed to draw more than 3,000 hockey fans.

In a Jan. 31 media release announcing the MAINEiacs' move, owner Mark Just said community support for the team was the main consideration. In the six seasons since the team moved from Sherbrooke, Que., to Lewiston, the MAINEiacs never managed to break even.

"Our casual fan base never reached expectations," Just said.

He said his motivation has always been a passion for the game, the players and everyone associated with the team.

Paul Spellman is an ardent fan of the MAINEiacs and he's sorry to see them leave Lewiston.

If Fredericton is fortunate enough to land the Q team, residents should embrace it, he said.

----

Sponsorship key to team succeeding in Fredericton
Published Thursday March 5th, 2009
A4
By SHAWN BERRY
[email protected]

There are plenty of factors and significant financial hurdles that could play into the viability of a Quebec Major Junior Hockey League team in Fredericton, says the man who owned the Fredericton Junior Red Wings for several years in the 1970s.

But Wayne Hill said talk of having the Lewiston MAINEiacs move to Fredericton has piqued his interest.

The team has proposed moving to Fredericton and sharing the Aitken University Centre with the University of New Brunswick Varsity Reds.

"It would be a tough sell, but I'd like to see it work," Hill said Wednesday.

"I dare say Fredericton could support it. It's a bigger city than it was in the 1970s."

Proponents of the move say there could be a good regional dynamic if Fredericton joined Saint John and Moncton in the league.

But it all boils down to money.

"Fredericton doesn't have the big major sponsors," Hill said.

Saint John has the benefit of corporate offices, he said.

"The big companies all have their offices in Saint John."

The Sea Dogs has more than 85 sponsors. It's the same story in Moncton, where there are more than 100 sponsors.

It would be a tougher sell in Fredericton where there are fewer large companies.

Saint John and Moncton have the benefit of being blue-collar cities, where people are more likely to go out to a hockey game, he said.

"That's why the NHL wants to get a hockey team into Hamilton, where the steel industry is a major employer."

Overall, he'd like the QMJHL team to make a success of it in Fredericton.

But the move depends on whether UNB thinks it's in the Varsity Reds' best interests.

"They have got to work together. They can't fight one another in the same city," Hill said.

[cl812]

City not part of MAINEiacs talk, mayor says
Published Friday March 6th, 2009
A4
By SHAWN BERRY
[email protected]

Fredericton Mayor Brad Woodside says a meeting he had with representatives of the Lewiston MAINEiacs hockey team earlier this week was a courtesy and the city isn't involved in any talks about bringing the team to the capital.

Woodside said there are no discussions about amending the plans on the planned Grant * Harvey centre to accommodate the team.

"I think their timetable is very limited," he said.

The team gave notice at the end of January that it intended to leave Lewiston and move to the Montreal suburb of Boisbriand. But that move was blocked by a Montreal team that had territorial rights extending over the proposed area.

"Our facility is really irrelevant," he said. "It's not a matter of me saying we'll build 5,000 seats."

Work on the two-rink Grant * Harvey Centre is scheduled to begin this year.

Last November, councillors voted to go ahead with a design that would see 1,500 seats surrounding the NHL-sized rink and 250 seats around an Olympic-size oval.

Wayne Tallon, director of community services for the City of Fredericton, said the city is already in the midst of preparing the building plans.

"We're at the schematic design stage," he said.

"The architects are working diligently."

Notices for tenders are expected to be issued in November.

Shovels are expected to be in the ground by 2010. The recreation facility is scheduled to open in September 2011.

----

Congregation excited about addition
Published Friday March 6th, 2009
A4
By JENNIFER DUNVILLE
[email protected]

The large, steel structure covered by tarps on Brunswick Street may not look interesting on the outside, but for more than 900 people the building is generating a lot of excitement.

The structure is part of a multimillion-dollar project being funded by the Brunswick Street Baptist Church.

The three-storey project will be an education wing that will soon be attached to the church.

Paul Greene, a spokesman for the church's 900 members, said the wing will serve as space for the church's Christian education program, which includes Sunday school, a nursery, Bible study space and a youth drop-in centre.

"This has been years and years in the making because it's something the church members financed themselves," Greene said.

"It's proceeding well and everything is on schedule. We can't wait to get in there."

The building, which is 1,687 square metres, is the first part of a two-phase project.

The second phase will include knocking down the Knights of Columbus building and the non-historic section of the church and replacing it with an annex for a multipurpose family room and contemporary worship space.

"We don't know when the second phase will begin, but we're just anxious to get this first phase completed," Greene said.

"We're to the point where it's almost time to connect the new building to the church, so that's exciting too."

Sunday school classes at the church have been canceled until September because of the construction.

But the church's two Sunday services have been continuing as usual.

"We are one of very few churches that holds two simultaneous services at one time - a regular service and contemporary service," Greene said.

"Since we started doing that, we've seen the membership grow by several hundred, so space has been an issue for us for some time."

The construction won't solve the church's parking lot issues, but Greene said the members will continue to make use of spaces on the surrounding streets, the parking lot of York House and the parking available at Kings Place.

The new education wing is expected to be opened by September.

----

Let's at least hear juniors out before slamming doors at Aitken Centre
Published Friday March 6th, 2009
B3
Bill Hunt

I'd like to hear more.

Before we shoot the idea of the Lewiston Maineiacs relocating to Fredericton out of the sky completely, let's at least hear what they have to say.

On the surface, the idea of allowing the wayward Quebec Major Junior Hockey League franchise to share Aitken Centre accommodations with the University of New Brunswick Varsity Reds seems strange. Like letting the fox into the henhouse.

After all, the V-Reds run the most successful Canadian Interuniversity Sport men's hockey program in the country. They're the top ranked team in the land, on their way to another CIS national University Cup tournament and a pretty good bet to bring it back.

Average attendance over 14 regular season home games was 2,495, up from 2,300 a year ago. Through the various Pumpernickel and Skills and Drills and 3-on-3 programs the V-Reds run; and with the V-Reds' Prospects spring hockey program; UNB has done a great job of cultivating the next generation of hockey fans.

They're the big game in town.

So, what possible benefit could they derive from allowing the Maineiacs -- or the Junior Reds, should negotiations first get underway and then proceed smoothly -- into a market that, with all due respect to the St. Thomas Tommies (average attendance, 356), they pretty much own.

Well, that's what I'd like to know.

Matt McKnight, the president and governor who was talking on behalf of the men from Maine the other day spoke about the possibility of a partnership between the parties. They would complement, rather than compete.

They would use their marketing staff and savvy to help promote the UNB athletic program: not just the men's hockey program, but the other elements of the program too.

They would fill in the missing piece of the minor hockey jigsaw puzzle in town. There are eight V-Reds Prospects spring hockey programs, the oldest group -- the '92s -- of which is now bearing bountiful junior hockey fruit. Jake Allen, the St. Louis Blues prospect and Montreal Junior star, is a product of the Prospects.

The gap in the smile, if you will, is at the junior level. The transplanted Maineiacs would fill it in.

From the university's perspective as a pure business proposition, it creates another client at the Aitken Centre: 35 more dates on the calendar. Practice hours that must be paid for. All without cost to the university. When a businessman offers to bring a $3 million product to town, you ought to at least hear him out.

If you don't like what you hear, you can always just say no and send them on their way..

***

Of course, if I'm Maineiacs owner Mark Just, maybe I'm a little nervous. While an average of 2,495 fans for the high flying and ever-entertaining V-Reds isn't too bad, it's a relatively small sample: 14 home games; most of them on the weekends; against well-established rivals.

The Maineiacs, nee Junior Reds, likely need better support than that, at steeper per-game prices, and they need it over 34 regular season evenings. They average, it says here, 2,243 fans in the 3,675 seat Androscoggin Bank Colisee in Lewiston, with ticket prices of $14 for adults, $11 for students and seniors, and $8 for kids 2-12 and that's not enough to keep them in Maine.

Of course there would be healthy Maritime rivalries -- Moncton and Saint John and Halifax and Charlottetown and Sydney and it's looking more and more like St. John's rather than Bathurst. The partnership with UNB might involve some creative packaging and marketing.

And you'll see Patrick Roy pace behind a bench and Jake Allen will come in with Montreal and once we discover who the league's next Sidney Crosby is, you'll see him too.

But while there are Saint John Sea Dogs and Montreal Juniors and Quebec Remparts, there are Rouyn-Noranda Huskies and Chicoutimi Sagueneens and Val d'Or Froeurs. And there are the inevitable Tuesday nights in February; and that old bugaboo that comes with a lengthy schedule, three games in three nights.

***

I think I might look nervously at the attendance -- or lack of same -- in the first two games of the Atlantic University Sport semifinal series against Acadia and gulp too.

With the season ticket base subtracted and a $2 hike in the ticket price, fan support was at 1,683 on Sunday night and 1,270 on Monday. Granted it was Acadia, games were on consecutive nights and the series, Gardiner MacDougall's healthy respect for the opposition notwithstanding, was a foregone conclusion. But those numbers might make a man who's already lost money for 10 consecutive seasons as a majority owner in junior hockey a little nervous

***

All of which is to say, if he's willing to come anyway and make a pitch that he believes will be a win-win proposition, and people the calibre of Don MacAdam and Roger Shannon are convinced it can work, it's certainly worth a conversation.

Bill Hunt's column appears each Friday. He can be reached by phone at 458-6443 or by e-mail at [email protected]

[magee_b]

Originally Posted by cl812

I think I might look nervously at the attendance -- or lack of same -- in the first two games of the Atlantic University Sport semifinal series against Acadia and gulp too.

With the season ticket base subtracted and a $2 hike in the ticket price, fan support was at 1,683 on Sunday night and 1,270 on Monday. Granted it was Acadia, games were on consecutive nights and the series, Gardiner MacDougall's healthy respect for the opposition notwithstanding, was a foregone conclusion. But those numbers might make a man who's already lost money for 10 consecutive seasons as a majority owner in junior hockey a little nervous

I think the University does a terrible job of marketing its product to its own students. If I didn't go out of my way to look at the schedule online, I would never know when they are playing - and I'm on campus every day. There are some students who don't even know we have a hockey team.

Personally, I think it comes back to campus atmosphere and cohesion that administration has undermined (and at the same time scratches their head as residence enrolment plummets)

[cl812]

Yeah, they really dont do a very good job marketing at all.

[cl812]

QMJHL hockey good for local economy
Published Saturday March 7th, 2009
A6
By SHAWN BERRY
[email protected]

The head of Moncton's downtown business association says his city's Quebec Major Junior Hockey League team, the Moncton Wildcats, has been a boon to local business.

"I know that businesses here in Moncton certainly want to be part of the Wildcats community effort," said Daniel Allain, executive director of Downtown Moncton.

Allain said talk that the Lewiston MAINEiacs are looking to land in Fredericton should be prompting plenty of interest in the capital.

The QMJHL team has approached the University of New Brunswick about the possibility of relocating to the city and using the Aitken University Centre.

"It would be great if we could get a rivalry between Fredericton, Moncton and Saint John going," Allain said.

Team activities have a direct impact on the local economy, he said.

"Their team budgets are anywhere from $3 million to $6 million a year," Allain said.

That's money that goes towards everything from travelling to buying gas to paying for the billeting of players and buying equipment, he said.

With more than 3,000 people turning out a night, the Wildcats employ at least 60 people on game night to work in the arena. The city benefitted from hosting the 2006 Memorial Cup and the week of events that went along with it.

Allain said the direct economic impact of the championship events provided a $4-million injection to Moncton's economy.

The Memorial Cup is an event the city couldn't have hosted without the QMJHL team in the city. The city will benefit once again this summer when the league holds its 2009-10 draft in Moncton.

"We're going to have 200 kids coming here," he said.

Add to that their parents and other loved ones, he said, and there's bound to be an effect on business for a few days.

Allain said the ownership is critical and owners need to make their teams a part of the community. The owners of the Saint John and Moncton teams both call New Brunswick home.

By contrast, Mark Just, the owner of the MAINEiacs, lives in the U.S. Midwest.

"Here in Moncton, the owner has a vision that the team is not just a hockey product, but a community product," he said.

But he said corporate sponsorship is key.

Allain said UNB and the MAINEiacs would have to "jazz up" the Aitken University Centre, increasing the seating to 4,000 and find a way to add corporate boxes to make it a go.

The intangible benefit of having a QMJHL team, he said, is from having the community's name carried by the team wherever they go.

"I hear them say Moncton on TSN now. How much is it worth? I don't know," he said.

But it has to be good, he said.

I find it unlikely it that it would be physically possible to add 200+ seats to the Aitken Centre and add corporate boxes, its probably not possible to do either for that matter, let alone both without extremely large capital investments and I doubt the University in any financial condition to be doing anything like that. I know they are carrying out renovations this summer to the Aitken Centre, but I think its primarily improvements to the ice plant and roof since the ice is not good there and the roof leaks so much.

[mylesmalley]

Originally Posted by magee_b

I think the University does a terrible job of marketing its product to its own students. If I didn't go out of my way to look at the schedule online, I would never know when they are playing - and I'm on campus every day. There are some students who don't even know we have a hockey team.

Personally, I think it comes back to campus atmosphere and cohesion that administration has undermined (and at the same time scratches their head as residence enrolment plummets)

Woah, we have a hockey team?!?

I'm kidding, but you make a good point. I'm in my third year and only recently went to my first VReds game.

I only just heard about this, as I was away all this week, but it would seem to me to be a no-brainer. A Q-league team would bring quite a bit more spectators and publicity to the Aitken Centre, meaning more ticket revenues and sponsorship dollars for the university.

And lets be honest. The university loves to out how great at hockey we are, but when's the last time they did anything for sports on campus? Last year they eliminated most varsity teams, and the LB Gym is about ready to collapse down the hill. I would even question how valuable the Currie Centre will be to sport on campus. (And for the record, I've been a pretty big opponent of the Currie Centre for a long time.)

[MonctonRad]

If appropriate corporate sponsorship can be rounded up, I think Fredericton should definitely get behind the concept of a Q League team.

I'm a season ticket holder for the Wildcats and the quality of the hockey is quite good. About 16-18 Wildcats alumni have gone on to play at least some games in the NHL. I attended the Memorial Cup when it was held here in Moncton and the atmosphere in the Coliseum was electric. I have never experienced anything like it. It was like the Stanley Cup! The final game between the Wildcats and the Remparts was unbelievable.

There would be natural rivalries between a Fredericton team and both the Sea Dogs and the Wildcats. If the Titan go to St. John's, then Fredericton would be the only large city in the region without a Q League team. It's time for Fredericton to get on board with this exciting brand of hockey.

[mylesmalley]

I had no idea that the Fog Devils left St. John's. You'd think a city that size wouldn't have a hard time keeping a Q League team in business. Guess that shows how much I follow hockey...

[Smevo]

I think Fredericton could have a successful Q-league franchise. Part of the draw of the Q is seeing possible future NHL'ers, which, let's be honest, is barely there in university hockey. Most players serious about going to the NHL (and good enough) play in the Q rather than in the CIS.

The story's similar in most CHL markets with a CIS team as well, the CHL team gets a much more loyal following than the CIS team (in most cases). Maybe it's because the UCCB hockey team was suspended from playing for so long, but I've never had that much of an interest in CIS hockey, but I always had a strong interest in the CB Oilers back in the AHL days, and now the Screaming Eagles. I even followed the MJAHL more closely than CIS before we got the Eagles franchise in Sydney.

The Q-league team not being in Fredericton was one of the things I missed in my 8 years there (though admittedly I haven't been to a CHL or NHL game here in Calgary yet...yet being the key word).

I know I'm probably a minority, but I can't stand watching hockey on TV. I love live hockey though.

[cl812]

No sense of urgency to get deal done with Maineiacs
Published Wednesday March 11th, 2009
B1
By BILL HUNT
[email protected]

Kevin Dickie says "not much has happened" to advance the prospect of a partnership between the University of New Brunswick and the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League's Lewiston Maineiacs since the parties first met nine days ago.

Dickie, the athletic director at the school - his office is in the lobby of the Aitken Centre, the arena the Maineiacs hope to share with the building's marquis tenant, Varsity Reds - said he spoke to Maineiacs owner Mark Just briefly on the weekend and again Monday.

He said UNB will "provide some of the financial considerations" to the Maineiacs to enlighten them as to "what are the actual costs of doing business?'' He said Just, the majority owner of the Maineiacs, should have those numbers "later this week."

But he said the time line of two weeks initially advanced by Lewiston president and governer Matt McKnight to have the framework of a deal in place "doesn't work for us. We have no deadline at our end. We're not ignoring it, but it's going through due process."

In fact, said Dickie, he doesn't anticipate significant movement until Varsity Reds head coach Gardiner MacDougall weighs in.

MacDougall, of course, is in the midst of preparing his Varsity Reds for the best-of-three Atlantic University Sport Men's Hockey Conference final against the Saint Mary's Huskies. The series begins here Friday night at 7 p.m., switches to Halifax Sunday night and returns to the Aitken Centre next Wednesday if necessary (CHSR-FM 97.9). The V-Reds have also qualified for the CIS Cavendish University Cup tournament in Thunder Bay, Ont. March 26-29.

"Obviously if there's any decision down the road, we'll be a big part of it, but right now, our whole focus is on the Atlantic playoffs and after that, the CIS," said MacDougall. "That's going to take my ultimate focus."

Lewiston coach Don MacAdam - he's behind only MacDougall in career wins at UNB - can relate.

"He's such an intense coach and does such a great job that we don't want to do anything to disrupt that side of things," said MacAdam. "We all appreciate that."

MacAdam, for instance, has a couple of big games of his own - two remaining regular season home games which will go a long way toward determining whether or not the Maineiacs make the playoffs. Win and they're in. "We can lose both and still get in the playoffs depending on what happens. So we have a lot of exciting things happening on the hockey front here, too."

Dickie said Just is "comfortable" with the time frame. "I don't think there's a sense of urgency," he said.

MacAdam said if the deal doesn't come to fruition in Fredericton, "the team is very comfortable staying here. Being a former owner, I know exactly where our owner is coming from. He had opportunities presented to him that he had to explore. As part of that package, he had to apply to the league to move. We're very happy to stay here. The community has been supportive and we feel there are things we can do in the community that would even improve the support."

Dickie reiterated that there are two main considerations in making the deal work from UNB's perspective. One, that it not affect the current stature of the overall UNB athletic program and two, that "from a financial perspective, we have to benefit."

MacAdam concurs.

The bottom line remains the same...if it's not great for UNB and not great for us, then we're not interested," he said. "Right now, it's not imminent that we're going anywhere. It's not imminent that we're doing anything other than staying exactly where we are."

Having said that, Fredericton remains an attractive option if the deal can be pulled together. Fredericton would be plunked right in the middle of Maritime rivalries with Saint John, Moncton and Bathurst, along with P.E.I., Cape Breton and Halifax.

"You would have four teams closer than our nearest team now, which is Victoriaville," said MacAdam. "Expense-wise, and wear-and-tear on the players wise, that location is geographically very, very attractive. But the one thing we want to make really clear is, we're not doing anything unless it's a great situation for UNB and a great situation for us."

Dickie said it's not as simple as the Maine group cutting a cheque to buy their way in to the Aitken Centre.

"Absolutely not," he said. "The most important thing with our program is growing our brand and continuing to get better. It's about the brand. Can we maintain it? How can we just be better at what we do with our overall program?" What Dickie and the "other constituents" at UNB need to be convinced of is whether the proposed partnership with the Maineiacs can enhance the V-Reds' product and program.

He likened it to a CFL football team proposing a partnership with a successful Laval Rouge et Or football program in Quebec City.

"They average 15,000 a game there," he said. "It transcends anything happening in the country right now. But if a CFL team comes along and says they can help get you up to 20,000 a game, you certainly want to look at it. They have presented for us a framework. And they will have from us, the cost of doing business some time this week."

He said the key question as far as the Reds are concerned is whether the Maineiacs can help improve average attendance at the Varsity Reds' men's hockey team's 14 home games - attendance was 2,495 this season - or whether their presence might have a negative impact. "That might be the best question," he said. "I don't know."

They are questions MacDougall has neither the time nor the inclination to ponder right now.

"Their people met with our personnel, but I wasn't part of that process," he said. "I know there are time lines, but there has to be a situation that's too good to pass up, and right now our situation is, we're trying to win an Atlantic championship."

[cl812]

A couple things to keep in mind when comparing the CHL to CIS Hockey:
the average age of the players in the CHL, yes you see some up and coming stars there, however, the players are much younger than in the CIS and less developed. Also, not all players in the CHL will be stars or even make the NHL for that matter, the players who do go on to the NHL make up a relatively low percentage and ones will become stars make up an even smaller percentage. Another thing to be pointed out is that UNB easily beat 3 NCAA Division 1 teams this year and last year (one being the Boston College team who won the NCAA Division 1 Championchip last year), which is probably closer to the CHL and the teams were made up several NHL draft picks including many first rounders. UNB also was able to defeat the NY Islanders Rookie team last year.

All that being said, both brands of hockey are very good and extremely close as far as the level of play.

[Pugsley]

Not to be a rotten apple...since this is only my second post but I have been a reader for well over a year....

Can we get back to discussing development as opposed to whether or not a hockey team will come here or go to northern NB?

It is interesting, but I come here to learn about development and projects in the area, not sports-related news. Perhaps better suited under a seperate forum?

[mylesmalley]

I agree with you, Pugsley. Most of the forum threads tend to get a bit off topic. The only defence I can give you is that the winter is generally pretty slow in terms of development. Even then, there really hasn't been a lot of talk of any interesting construction lately, with the exception of Costco and the Knowledge Park expansion that's being proposed.

[cl812]

Mayor turns to Facebook for Costco input
Published Thursday March 12th, 2009
Views | Woodside says he wants to hear comments from public
A1
By HEATHER MCLAUGHLIN
[email protected]

Mayor Brad Woodside is turning to Facebook to find out if Frederictonians want a Costco store in the capital city.


COSTCO SUPPORT or opposition?: This is the Facebook site created by Mayor Brad Woodside to get feedback on whether residents want a Costco store in the city.

Woodside launched his "Costco in Fredericton'' Facebook group Wednesday to ask members of the social networking site to state their views, pro or con, on the development proposal before city council.

"Do you want a Costco in Fredericton? We hear comments from those who object. What about comments from those that support Costco? I would like to know one way or the other. This is a big decision for the greater Fredericton area," the mayor wrote on his Facebook site.

Woodside said he's not taking a public stand for or against because the proposal is still before city council, but he's letting citizens know that first and second reading of the zoning changes for the property come before council April 14 at 7:30 p.m. at city hall.

That's also the evening when the public has a chance to state its support or opposition for the project.

"People that object and people that support this application are more than welcome to attend this public meeting," Woodside said.

Third reading, which is council's final decision on the development, will follow two weeks later at the next regular public city council session.

"I've talked to an awful lot of people who have been very supportive of it, who want it, but what we tend to keep hearing is those that object to it," Woodside said.

"This isn't for or against. This is basically people that have asked for a way to let themselves be heard, whether it's good, bad or indifferent, here you go.''

He said he expected most people will generate their opinions on the Internet site over the next few days.

"This is the communication age we're living in and people should have an opportunity to express themselves one way or the other, and I think it's important that they have that opportunity," Woodside said.

Some citizens may be shy about appearing at formal city council meetings.

"I think as technology changes, we have to change with it," Woodside said. "All I'm looking for is the public input and to let council know their feelings on this. Some people are very passionate one way and some people are very passionate the other way."

----

This is an interesting idea.

[Pugsley]

Thanks Myles:

Well, if nothing is happening in terms of development...maybe we should start thinking of ideas to help boost development?

Would be interesting to get ideas from people here on potential areas the city should focus on. I am sure people at City Hall look at these pages...at least I hope they do.

I for one have always felt that the city is getting too focused on suburban-style development and not looking at ways to boost the central retail corridor. I think a great city for Fredericton to aspire to would be Burlington, Vermont. Essentially the same size, strong University presence, but with a very different development policy. Where Fredericton is busy trying to get a big-box retailer to locate on preservation land, Burlington has brought them downtown. Today, they have a pedestrian mall running through the centre of town lined with many of the same retailers you would find in modern day suburban "power centres" - Old Navy, Eddie Bauer, Starbucks, Gap, etc..

Imagine if they took the vacant lot north of Queen Street just west of Westmorland and built a pedestrian friendly village of shops you would find out in the burbs. With the Frederick's Square garage, parking would not be an issue. The point is that brining the major retailers downtown would not hurt the downtown businesses, it would only draw more people for them to sell to. It has been a huge success in Burlington.

[Pugsley]

Oh, and another thing...seeing as I am an outsider looking in....why on earth did the city decide to build two rinks on opposite ends of town instead of one collossal arena and sports facility in the centre of the city? As an Urban Planner by education, I find this to be ridiculous considering the city struggles to get people downtown on a regular basis.

If I had been running the show, I would have taken over the Old Vic Hospital property or the Ex Grounds and built a massive Arena, side rink, YMCA, Indoor Water Park complex with adjacent conference facilities and a hotel. If you add up the cost of the new Convention Centre, the two rinks, the proposed YMCA, and indoor pools being developed, the combined project and complex would have been a much cheaper solution and a much more viable space.

After all, if the city wants to bring MAJOR trade shows to the city, then a convention centre conencted to a hotel and arena would have offered many more opportunities.

[mylesmalley]

You make some excellent points, Pugsley! I agree it's pretty foolish building two rinks on either side of the river. However, municipal politics often involves making sure one side of town doesn't feel slighted. Putting a rink downtown would have been the smart decision, but not the politically smart one. You see this a lot at the provincial level too.

Were it up to me, I think job-1 of the planning department should be to slow down the rate of semi-rural subdivision growth around the fringes of the city. If you take a look at Google Earth, there are areas right next to town like Hanwell, New Maryland, Kingsclear etc that are essentially suburban subdivisions but with lots 5x as big. With the exception of owners getting their 'country living in the city', developments like these are all negatives. They're sprawl to the extreme and ery inefficient to service with water/sewer/power utilities. Worse still, because they're so sparse they can't be serviced by mass transit effectively, so everyone is forced to drive into the city.

[Pugsley]

Agreed. In fact, from my travels it looks like Fredericton is getting dangerously close to becomming like a Raleigh or Charlotte, NC. Lot's of suburban country-estate development and no real direction in terms of a CBD. I like the new Knowledge Park but again, could this not be better served with a more dense development in the city-core? All it does is push the commute acceptance limit further out of the city.

If they wanted to build 14 four floor floor buildings on a campus, they could easily build 2-3 seven floor buildings downtown to accomplish the same degree of leasable space. Plus, it would allow for better and more frequent transit access.

You know, I read alot of stuff about how Fredericton wants to be a green city and an example for the world on creating an urban oasis, but the urban planning department appears to be out of touch with the rest of the city's departments on this front. There are still empty lots downtown that could be used for offices and this should be the priority. Not expanding a suburban-style park next to a big-box retailer.

My suggestion? A land-swap agreement. Have the University swap land with the Victoria Hospital complex. Demolish it, and build a waterfront knowledge park with closer access to main transit routes. In return, get the province to build a more suitable veterans hospital/home up the hill on university land that was exchanged. Or better yet, outsource it to a private company who have experience building special care facilities. Two winners...a better facility for thos needing special care and a more suitable location for an urban business complex.