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  #9081  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2025, 3:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker View Post
They used to be forested but Signal Hill was mostly clear-cut. Much of the adjacent Southside Hills are still forested hehe.

That's a interesting point, and historically crucial! In particular, the factor of historical clear-cutting on places like Signal Hill for construction and the fishing industry. That certainly explains why the urban area looks so exposed!

That said, your comment about the Southside Hills still being forested supports the climatic point we were discussing. Even in the areas that weren't totally cut—or in the areas that grew back—the trees never seem to reach the kind of height or density you see in the Mediterranean mountains like Sicily.

It seems to be a combination: The human factor (clearcutting) created the vast, open space, and the environmental factors (intense wind, sea salt, short growing season) make it incredibly difficult for the forest to fully recover and establish a dense, mature canopy like it would in a warmer climate. The extreme winds and salt still make life very tough for the trees, resulting in that unique blend of taiga and coastal tundra, even where the woods still stand!
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  #9082  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2025, 4:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Nicko999 View Post
1C and mainly cloudy today. Rain/snow mix started this evening.
This was the precipitation type this evening. YUL is all rain.



Low of -4C (wind chill of -6) this morning.

The warmspot was Windsor, ON at 18.3C. It pays to be further south this time of the year. Same system, one place is mild, the other is getting a messy mix.

Warmest low was Estevan Point, BC at 8.9C.

Mirabel makes sense as it is further north but the differences between Montreal Metropolitan and YUL are interesting.
I took these screen shots after reading your post last night, I wish I would have checked in earlier,
with the heads up on the snow forecast I would have been recording the snow event and would have captured the donut marker

Screen grab from Montreal Est live cam on Nov 16, 2025


https://www.myearthcam.com/sylpare


https://www.myearthcam.com/sylpare
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  #9083  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2025, 6:13 PM
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Mix of sun and clouds with a pretty good north wind whipping around. Even had a bit of graupel.

Up in the forest.




Down at the lake.


Quite the clouds today. Fast moving, blink and it's different.
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  #9084  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2025, 8:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tancredi View Post
That said, your comment about the Southside Hills still being forested supports the climatic point we were discussing. Even in the areas that weren't totally cut—or in the areas that grew back—the trees never seem to reach the kind of height or density you see in the Mediterranean mountains like Sicily.
Yes, that's correct. We do have some trees in valleys and other sheltered locations that can be quite tall (well over a 5-6 floor building), but such areas are uncommon, and the same species would grow much taller than even that elsewhere.

Along the coast, exposed to the ocean (salt/wind), they take centuries to reach even my height. That happens even in warmer climates (they're called dibi dibi trees in the Caribbean, for example), but it's especially brutal here in a colder climate. I'm taller than a lot of trees on coastal hiking trails, and even in areas where I'm not, they're rarely much more than 2-3x me.
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  #9085  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2025, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker View Post
Yes, that's correct. We do have some trees in valleys and other sheltered locations that can be quite tall (well over a 5-6 floor building), but such areas are uncommon, and the same species would grow much taller than even that elsewhere.

Along the coast, exposed to the ocean (salt/wind), they take centuries to reach even my height. That happens even in warmer climates (they're called dibi dibi trees in the Caribbean, for example), but it's especially brutal here in a colder climate. I'm taller than a lot of trees on coastal hiking trails, and even in areas where I'm not, they're rarely much more than 2-3x me.
Your message really highlights that the main limiting factor in Newfoundland isn't an absolute lack of nutrients or the extreme cold in general, but rather the mechanical stress and dehydration caused by the wind. The fact that valleys offer protection from the wind and salt allows trees there to reach their genetic potential, even if it takes them longer than elsewhere.

Your observation that coastal trees (those exposed to salt/wind) take 'centuries to reach my height' is crucial because it clarifies:

Shortened Growing Season: Our initial analysis pointed out that the growing season in St. John's is very short. In a cold climate, trees have very little time to add biomass (wood) each year.

Constant Damage: When you add the constant damage from erosion and dehydration caused by the wind and salt (Windburn), the trees spend most of their energy repairing and surviving, instead of growing upwards.

The Consequence: This leads to an overall extremely slow growth rate, explaining why trees remain stunted for decades or even centuries.

The fact that you are taller than many trees on the coastal hiking trails ('rarely double or triple my height') perfectly describes two phenomena:

Krummholz: This is a German term used to describe the stunted, deformed trees found in extreme alpine or coastal zones where growth is limited by wind and frost. The prostrate, twisted shape is a survival strategy.

The Caribbean Parallel: Your reference to the 'dibi dibi trees' (likely a form of mangroves or coastal shrubs) in the Caribbean is an excellent comparison. In those climates, salt and wind are the limiters, even though water and heat are abundant. In Newfoundland, those same stressors (wind and salt) are combined with the cold limitation, making the effect 'particularly brutal' on growth.

All very interesting stuff, and it clearly shows just how numerous and complex the factors are that determine tree growth, density, and overall count!
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  #9086  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2025, 3:20 AM
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2C and mainly cloudy. We got some sun which is the most we've in a week.
This has been the worst start of November I can remember. Been 2-3 degrees for the last week when the average should be 6 still. Insane amount of snow that actually stays on the ground.

Low of -2C (wind chill of -6).

The warmspot was Masinasin, AB at 15.4C.

Warmest low was a three way tie between White Rock, Race Rocks and Pam Rocks, BC at 9.2C.
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  #9087  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2025, 4:51 AM
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The worst start and getting ridiculous, right now in Montreal Est. I have lost track of how many snow days now in November.


https://www.myearthcam.com/sylpare

2 hours later

https://www.myearthcam.com/sylpare

Last edited by Zepfancouver; Nov 17, 2025 at 7:01 AM.
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  #9088  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2025, 7:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker View Post
Yes, that's correct. We do have some trees in valleys and other sheltered locations that can be quite tall (well over a 5-6 floor building), but such areas are uncommon, and the same species would grow much taller than even that elsewhere.

Along the coast, exposed to the ocean (salt/wind), they take centuries to reach even my height. That happens even in warmer climates (they're called dibi dibi trees in the Caribbean, for example), but it's especially brutal here in a colder climate. I'm taller than a lot of trees on coastal hiking trails, and even in areas where I'm not, they're rarely much more than 2-3x me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tancredi View Post
Your message really highlights that the main limiting factor in Newfoundland isn't an absolute lack of nutrients or the extreme cold in general, but rather the mechanical stress and dehydration caused by the wind. The fact that valleys offer protection from the wind and salt allows trees there to reach their genetic potential, even if it takes them longer than elsewhere.

Your observation that coastal trees (those exposed to salt/wind) take 'centuries to reach my height' is crucial because it clarifies:

Shortened Growing Season: Our initial analysis pointed out that the growing season in St. John's is very short. In a cold climate, trees have very little time to add biomass (wood) each year.

Constant Damage: When you add the constant damage from erosion and dehydration caused by the wind and salt (Windburn), the trees spend most of their energy repairing and surviving, instead of growing upwards.

The Consequence: This leads to an overall extremely slow growth rate, explaining why trees remain stunted for decades or even centuries.

The fact that you are taller than many trees on the coastal hiking trails ('rarely double or triple my height') perfectly describes two phenomena:

Krummholz: This is a German term used to describe the stunted, deformed trees found in extreme alpine or coastal zones where growth is limited by wind and frost. The prostrate, twisted shape is a survival strategy.

The Caribbean Parallel: Your reference to the 'dibi dibi trees' (likely a form of mangroves or coastal shrubs) in the Caribbean is an excellent comparison. In those climates, salt and wind are the limiters, even though water and heat are abundant. In Newfoundland, those same stressors (wind and salt) are combined with the cold limitation, making the effect 'particularly brutal' on growth.

All very interesting stuff, and it clearly shows just how numerous and complex the factors are that determine tree growth, density, and overall count!
Along the windswept coast, the small trees are known as "tuckamore". Another name is "crunicks" for small trees of a certain coniferous variety.

However, NL has lots of trees, especially planted ones in the urban areas, and larger trees in central and western parts of the province.

Corner Brook:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/gULQakBDx2t7vvTN7
https://maps.app.goo.gl/7cR5774keZ6hpeTx8

St John's:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/1QqjHagLeH28RAWp6
https://maps.app.goo.gl/UCwiA6gknKqKUtNc8

Gambo:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/seW5YKAgkkBn542K6
https://maps.app.goo.gl/8ZSUAgrwksEMGuag8

Lewisporte:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/B6qgLXq3P6HafTuX8

Grand Falls:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/Row7VVUaCtpLvT7s9
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  #9089  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2025, 9:24 AM
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These trees are spectacular, and wow, they don't look small at all!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Architype View Post
Along the windswept coast, the small trees are known as "tuckamore". Another name is "crunicks" for small trees of a certain coniferous variety.

However, NL has lots of trees, especially planted ones in the urban areas, and larger trees in central and western parts of the province.

Corner Brook:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/gULQakBDx2t7vvTN7
https://maps.app.goo.gl/7cR5774keZ6hpeTx8

St John's:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/1QqjHagLeH28RAWp6
https://maps.app.goo.gl/UCwiA6gknKqKUtNc8

Gambo:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/seW5YKAgkkBn542K6
https://maps.app.goo.gl/8ZSUAgrwksEMGuag8

Lewisporte:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/B6qgLXq3P6HafTuX8

Grand Falls:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/Row7VVUaCtpLvT7s9
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  #9090  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2025, 3:09 PM
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We are officially in the long 6 month or so stretch where crap weather is the expectation. Hard to complain too much considering the brilliant summer we had that basically extended into mid-October. But it is a bit depressing to think we are a long, long way from consistent warmth and sunshine

Today, a high of 2 with some flurries possible. Slightly below seasonal/seasonal for the rest of the month with no significant precipitation in the forecast. Highs between 3 and 8 degrees.

Tracking a possible monster storm on November 29th. Still a long ways out, but the models are showing 50 + cm in some parts of the snowbelt. The models will likely calm down before that, but still, we could be looking at our 2nd 10+cm snowfall in November in the GTA, which is quite rare. The average snowfall for November is around 8 cm total.
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  #9091  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2025, 4:37 PM
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Good thing the snow that fell happened on a Sunday the weekend before last. Vast majority of people didn't have their winter tires on. Mine are scheduled for this Thursday. That was gross. And many stores weren't fully prepared yet. CT's website mentioned dozens or hundreds of those ergonomic shovels and big bags of salt, but when you show up the employees tell you those are all still on pallets in the back waiting to be stocked. So, their online inventory tells you when they check it into their store, but not when it's actually on the floor. I intended on getting the big bag of salt and had to settle for the smaller one. Turns out I didn't actually need it per se as the little I had from last year was enough.

And this past Saturday it was good weather for 9am. No sun, but 6 degrees and calm is still good. Made for comfortable watching at the local Santa parade. We later went grocery shopping and then drove to another store about 7 minutes away where I thought there was excessive amounts of salt on the parking lot when it wasn't even needed. Didn't think anything of it and then when going to the next store after that I saw even bigger salt pellets. I then realized it had actually hailed briefly. This is the biggest I've ever seen. Got home like 3 kms away and the hail at home was about half the size in my hard. But up the street the neighbour shared a photo of what was in their yard.

Later on it poured rain too. Several towns had their parades later in the day, including at night at 5 or 6. And Sunday was windy and disgusting all day, though the sun was out for some of it. Those parades that day wouldn't have been comfortable.


















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  #9092  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2025, 8:01 PM
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  #9093  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2025, 8:58 PM
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This was from a few days ago, but I'm still trying to film more video when I'm out and about.

Video Link
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  #9094  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2025, 12:41 AM
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Liking the rainbow
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  #9095  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2025, 2:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicko999 View Post


Nicko must be livid with the freezing rain line right through Laval (I don't know if you live there, but I am sure you are pissed anyway. Am I right? )

Meanwhile here in Gatineau we get all the same shit and more you have.
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  #9096  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2025, 3:53 AM
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Originally Posted by harls View Post
Nicko must be livid with the freezing rain line right through Laval (I don't know if you live there, but I am sure you are pissed anyway. Am I right? )

Meanwhile here in Gatineau we get all the same shit and more you have.
Couldn't care less about Laval

My weather conditions as downtown's.
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  #9097  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2025, 4:01 AM
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1C today. That was the high. This is an incredibly long and severe cold wave. Now more than a week straight of 4-5 degrees below normal.

Low of -2C(wind chill of -9) this morning. We had more snow. About 1-2 cm.

The warmspot was Milk River, AB at 18.2C.

Warmest low looks to be Race Rocks, BC at 8.7C. Ogimet website is down so manually scrolled through the BC stations.
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  #9098  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2025, 6:36 PM
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I for one am sick to death of this January-in-November weather.

to bastardize an unloved Xmas song: Let it melt, let it melt, let it melt!
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  #9099  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2025, 8:03 PM
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  #9100  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2025, 3:37 AM
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1C and mainly cloudy. Brutal wind as well. This is absolutely ridiculous. All the worst in November has been experienced the past week and a half.

Low of -1C (wind chill of -7) this morning. Actually was sunny. Most sun I've seen in a week and a half maybe.

The warmspot was Race Rocks, BC at 14.5C.

Warmest low was Kindakun Rocks, BC at 8.2C.

What is normally the warmest spot is the coldest in the province right now. Tells you how out crappy the weather has been.
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