PITTSBURGH | Development Rundown II

[Evergrey]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Having now eyeballed the topped-out structure from many angles--I think you nailed it. That would probably be just enough to make it look like it was standing up among the Tall Boys, rather than being tucked down below. It would probably also be enough to help it cross the line from looking a little squat to more elegant proportions.

Oh well. It should still end up an attractive and innovative building, and help enclose Market Square, and help fill the notorious Wood-Smithfield gap in the skyline. Perhaps most importantly for PNC, it will still look like the new "boss" for that cluster of highrises in the middle of Downtown.

We're also spoiled by the impressive verticality and density of Downtown Pittsburgh... where PNC will rank only 7th in roof height... and will be blocked/partially blocked from some angles by taller buildings. The new PNC tower would be a dominant presence in many peer cities with much more sparse and/or squat downtowns like Cleveland (PNC would be 4th tallest in a relatively sparse skyline), Cincinnati (3rd tallest) or Baltimore (1st)... but PNC Tower gets lost in the 'redwood forest' here in Pittsburgh.

[wpipkins2]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

We're also spoiled by the impressive verticality and density of Downtown Pittsburgh... where PNC will rank only 7th in roof height... and will be blocked/partially blocked from some angles by taller buildings. The new PNC tower would be a dominant presence in many peer cities with much more sparse and/or squat downtowns like Cleveland (PNC would be 4th tallest in a relatively sparse skyline), Cincinnati (3rd tallest) or Baltimore (1st)... but PNC Tower gets lost in the 'redwood forest' here in Pittsburgh.

I was in downtown Cleveland this past weekend. If a Tower @ PNC like building was constructed adjacent to Public Square it would be very dramatic. I agree that a tower of this magnitude in most peer cities would have a significant impact on the skyline.

[Jonboy1983]

Originally Posted by wpipkins2

I was in downtown Cleveland this past weekend. If a Tower @ PNC like building was constructed adjacent to Public Square it would be very dramatic. I agree that a tower of this magnitude in most peer cities would have a significant impact on the skyline.

I guess in that respect, building the Tower at PNC was similar to the construction of Time Warner Center in Manhattan. It's a plenty tall building, but it's surrounded by other buildings of equal or taller height. Therefore it's impact is lessened somewhat...

[Austinlee]

I think after the financial meltdown of 08-09, banks are more aware of their image and are more conservative. Not sure how true that is, but it seems like it to me.

[Private Dick]

I like it... but overall, a disappointing result as far as height/skyline impact... regardless of anything else.


Though nothing that impressive, we were led to believe we'd see something of this height:


Now, it doesn't seem like we will even see this:

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

but PNC Tower gets lost in the 'redwood forest' here in Pittsburgh.

True, and to be fair it is going to be very prominent from some angles (the ones where the "forest" is on either side).

So yeah, there are worse skyline problems for a city like Pittsburgh to have than, "Oh, it is hard to see our new 33-story skyscraper from some angles because of all the tall buildings in the way."

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Austinlee

I think after the financial meltdown of 08-09, banks are more aware of their image and are more conservative. Not sure how true that is, but it seems like it to me.

That's certainly what I have heard from some bankers I know. In fact some of them think it is pretty gutsy for PNC to be building a "lavish" (their word) new HQ at all in the current environment.

And here is an article from earlier this year I happened to recall on this very subject:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-0...ce-towers.html

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

Now, it doesn't seem like we will even see this

Isn't that pretty accurate? This is not the greatest quality but it is pretty recent and the angle is similar. Still missing in this photo is the angled top section, and with that I think it will pretty much match:



I was just at Station Square myself, and from there it is clearly going to look taller than anything else in that cluster.

Edit: Again not the best quality and missing the top section, but this does give an idea of how it looks from Station Square:

[Private Dick]

So who's gonna build the city's next 50-story building?

[Private Dick]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Isn't that pretty accurate? This is not the greatest quality but it is pretty recent and the angle is similar. Still missing in this photo is the angled top section, and with that I think it will pretty much match:

Yeah, maybe it is pretty accurate... I'm really not the best judge of it since I'm not seeing it on a daily basis. Again, I do like the building and think it is exciting for Pittsburgh... just being height greedy I guess

[Evergrey]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

So who's gonna build the city's next 50-story building?

[TBone7281]

Originally Posted by themaguffin

I wish that the PNC building were taller, but it's hardly mediocre.

I think the worst part of it is, that many of the tallest buildings in cities are bank buildings and now PNC is in the top tier of banks. It's one of the biggest and likely the best chance for something truly major and that's not going to happen now.

I was only referring to the height as being mediocre (and in reference to what could have been done). The building itself is beautiful and the tech they are applying to it is pretty sweet too.

[BrianTH]

Some Marcellus/Utica news:

http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburg....html?page=all

If it turns out that companies can profitably drill both Marcellus and Utica from the same pads in Western Pa, that will likely lead to both more production and fewer pads in any given period (which is a good combination).

[themaguffin]

I was only referring to the height as being mediocre (and in reference to what could have been done). The building itself is beautiful and the tech they are applying to it is pretty sweet too.

I understand what you saying. I'm just saying that while I wish it were taller, I think it's above mediocre height. As other mentioned, this would stand out in many peer cities. It would stand out in Ohio's 3Cs, Indy, St Louis, Sacramento, Baltimore, Tampa, San Diego, Portland...

What is nice at least is that it helps fill in the gap of the centralish part of the triangle.

[DKNewYork]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

That's certainly what I have heard from some bankers I know. In fact some of them think it is pretty gutsy for PNC to be building a "lavish" (their word) new HQ at all in the current environment.

And here is an article from earlier this year I happened to recall on this very subject:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-0...ce-towers.html

When the project was announced, PNC specifically addressed the expense of the Tower with analysts that follow the bank. I guess that is to be expected and actually should be encouraged. I don't remember pushback or skepticism from the analysts. Will be curious to learn if the building's running expenses turn out to be half what a conventional office building would incur, as promoted... Also, the original cost for PNC was put at about $400M, which doesn't sound excessive for a 33 story building. I am more surprised that the cost of Millcraft's Gardens project has climbed to $106M.

Since that Bloomberg article, TD Bank has agreed to be the lead tenant in a proposed tower near Grand Central. But the thrust of the article remains on target---the financial industry here in Manhattan is not going to be the source of new commercial construction in the near future.

That said, I am already wondering if there will could eventually be development/construction benefits down the road due to FNB's relocation of its HQ to Pittsburgh from Hermitage. The bank is growing fast and, per their press release, needs Pittsburgh to attract the personnel it needs so it might well outgrow One North Shore Center.

Separately, I think your food trucks idea at Mellon Square is brilliant. I really like the park, including its rigid formality, and used it frequently when I worked downtown, but I always thought it would be better to have food available nearby rather than have to remember to bring it to the park.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by DKNewYork

I don't remember pushback or skepticism from the analysts.

To be clear, this was just casual chatter among people who work in banking. I was citing it more for it being evidence about the general sentiment in the industry, rather than a specific critique of PNC's decision.

Separately, I think your food trucks idea at Mellon Square is brilliant. I really like the park, including its rigid formality, and used it frequently when I worked downtown, but I always thought it would be better to have food available nearby rather than have to remember to bring it to the park.

Let's make it so!

Interestingly, I was inspired in part by a visit to Dayton, where we ate lunch in Courthouse Square. It is a broadly similar sort of plaza among some of their taller buildings (although less broken up internally than Mellon Square):





Anyway, at lunch time they set up food trucks, and sometimes have live music and such:

http://www.downtowndayton.org/index....sk=view&id=250





Unless perhaps they can remove (lower?) the bollards, you couldn't pull up food trucks into Mellon Square quite like that. But with William Penn and (particularly) Oliver being so lightly used, I think those are suitable alternatives.

[Evergrey]

McNasty's sounds awesome.

[Private Dick]

If it would or would not be a stand out in other "peer" cities is irrelevant.

Who cares if it would be a skyline standout in Sacramento or Cleveland or Baltimore because of their larger geographic footprints and/or lower numbers of taller buildings? It certainly signals some disappointment.

[Evergrey]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

If it would or would not be a stand out in other "peer" cities is irrelevant.

Who cares if it would be a skyline standout in Sacramento or Cleveland or Baltimore because of their larger geographic footprints and/or lower numbers of taller buildings? It certainly signals some disappointment.

I don't think Baltimore would be disappointed in getting a new tallest. But here in Pittsburgh... 550 ft PNC is only our 7th tallest... so everybody's whining. It's really a testament to how great Pittsburgh's downtown/skyline is when we can complain about a 500-footer being too short.

[themaguffin]

If it would or would not be a stand out in other "peer" cities is irrelevant.

It's not the main point. It's a secondary point. The main point is that the size isn't mediocre. That doesn't mean we here are not disappointed that it's not taller, but it's hardly small either.