SkyCity Centre Winnipeg | 45F | 575 Ft | 175.26 M | Cancelled

[Riverman]

That's not unusual. Lots of people do that. I'm looking at renting this one for an upcoming trip.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Riverman

That's not unusual. Lots of people do that. I'm looking at renting this one for an upcoming trip.

These Airbnb/VRBO rentals are a godsend especially for someone like me who prefers suites with separate bedrooms and kitchens vs. regular hotel rooms for family travel. In most places, I can typically get a well appointed condo for less than the cost of a standard issue hotel room, much like the room you linked to above. If that suite was in a Westin or some such, it would probably run north of $500 a night.

That said, I wouldn't be crazy about living next to one of these suites, and it's easy to see how things can get out of hand if you have a bunch of them in a building. But given that Winnipeg isn't exactly a tourist hub along the lines of Paris, I think the market for Airbnb/VRBO rentals is a bit limited... I don't think more than a small handful of SkyCity suites would end up on there.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by Roger Strong

he's renting them out as hotel suites on Airbnb.

Quite a bit of this happening in Glasshouse too. The reality of these buildings in today's market is that the bulk of the sales are not going to end users. That's not to say that none of them are, but the numbers are fewer and fewer. These are investments for people. And in places like Toronto, the condo boards are becoming more entangled in how to deal with this because, as you say, the end users aren't interested in living in a hotel.

There are properties in Toronto and Vancouver being marketed at the moment with entire floors being set aside for AirBnB investors and the end users are furious. Naturally, there's the whole issue of property liability when 70% of the users are transient in either the very short or medium term.

[bomberjet]

At the company i work for. We have a good number of folks in from all over the country, all the time. Usually around 15-20. We rent apartments, but also have people in hotels. Our office is very close to SkyCity, so would be a good opportunity for us to use some of those rooms.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

At the company i work for. We have a good number of folks in from all over the country, all the time. Usually around 15-20. We rent apartments, but also have people in hotels. Our office is very close to SkyCity, so would be a good opportunity for us to use some of those rooms.

Yeah, a lot of Glasshouse is there to address this issue.

I've heard from some owners in Glasshouse that the Alt is looking to send overflow guests into their units if they've planned on putting them on AirBnB or VRBO anyway. In exchange, they'll take a 30% management fee and send the maid to clean the place, change the sheets, etc...

[rypinion]

The condos on Waterfront have a lot of suites that are rented out through:

https://premieresuites.com/furnished...ents/winnipeg/

If you walk through the Sky parkade there's a large percentage of stalls that have a Premiere sign on them. It doesn't bother me though, I've happily lived there for 5.5 years.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by rypinion

The condos on Waterfront have a lot of suites that are rented out through:

https://premieresuites.com/furnished...ents/winnipeg/

If you walk through the Sky parkade there's a large percentage of stalls that have a Premiere sign on them. It doesn't bother me though, I've happily lived there for 5.5 years.

Lots and lots of people in the furnished rentals game these days. Good rents, generally reliable occupants (given their employer or insurance company is usually footing the bill), and the place is only occupied sporadically. Extended vacancies tend to come and stay, though.

[NK59]

So it's basically buying one suite of a hotel... I wonder how this translates as an investment. Only good for those who can pay cash? Carrying a mortgage on one of these seems risky. Is GlassHouse sold out?

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by Roger Strong

And then there's a case in Vancouver where one owner owns six out of sixty suites in a building. He's not renting them out as apartments; he's renting them out as hotel suites on Airbnb.

I had thought about that but didn't intend to do it. Airbnb makes it very easy for someone with the financial means and interest to grab a block of units of a new condo building like this. The developer likely has limited interest in banning those plans upfront as it could hurt unit sales. This then leaves it to the condo board to put rules in place and even if they tried the Airbnb operator has multiple votes based on a one unit-one vote system. I would also imagine that if a condo board did try to ban Airbnb after possession occurred the multi-unit owner would likely launch a legal challenge.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by NK59

So it's basically buying one suite of a hotel... I wonder how this translates as an investment. Only good for those who can pay cash? Carrying a mortgage on one of these seems risky. Is GlassHouse sold out?

Glasshouse isn't sold out; they're at 121 of 190 units sold, so about 64% sold.

But as an investment, it could be decent so long as you can keep the cash flowing. I don't have the time at the moment to do an actual breakdown, but if you're renting at $120/night and ALT is taking 30%, you're netting $84/night.If it's a smaller one bedroom, you're likely getting, what, $1300/mth? That means you need to be occupied just over 15 days a month to get a monthly rent. Of course, there's way more to this calculation than this back of the envelope version, but each are going to have their associated costs and so forth, so it's probably 6 of one half dozen of the other. Mortgage free, of course. And I don't know the difficulties of achieving a ~50% occupancy rate on a VRBO or AirBnB.

And, of course, competition amongst units will always be a factor.

[CoryB]

^^ First thing I would do is cut Alt out of the picture, if possible. The point of Airbnb is owners list and rent the units themselves.

The second thing I would do is figure out what I need to bring in on a monthly basis to cover my costs.

If you are renting night to night hotel style you would likely have additional costs you wouldn't run into on a monthly rental such as the usual hotel housekeeping costs. I would also suspect you would want some type of system to be quickly changing over the locks on the entrance doors to your units.

The next piece I would look at is market rates for short term rentals in the area. For example what are Alt, Radision and the Fairmont charging a night? My goal would be to try and undercut their rate and still remain above water. If I was looking for short term rentals it would be a lot harder sell if someone could spend $50 less a night at stay at a full service banner handing out points.

There is more that would go into my planning but that covers it in a nutshell. The biggest would be getting your covert operation established before the developer or condo board specific prohibited it in the building rules.

[Riverman]

The place I usually rent has a programmable combination lock. The owner just changes the lock combination to the arrival date.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by CoryB

^^ First thing I would do is cut Alt out of the picture, if possible. The point of Airbnb is owners list and rent the units themselves.

Believe me, you'd want them involved. For one, they'll probably put a keycard lock on your door for you, but more importantly, they're going to send you business you'd otherwise never have. Somebody planning to stay a night at the ALT will otherwise be shunted into your room. You're paying 30% of a room-night you'd otherwise never have and you don't need to bother with sending the maid or laundering the sheets.

The biggest would be getting your covert operation established before the developer or condo board specific prohibited it in the building rules.

This is unlikely to ever happen. In fact, in Manitoba, the new condo legislation has just made it more difficult for condo boards to be able to do this. Since you can't outright ban it, historically condo boards have just made the deposits so uncomfortably large nobody would ever consider it. That's been legislated out.

[Roger Strong]

Originally Posted by CoryB

There is more that would go into my planning but that covers it in a nutshell. The biggest would be getting your covert operation established before the developer or condo board specific prohibited it in the building rules.

For the other condo owners and condo boards, the plan would be to demand legislation making it easier to stop people from turning their buildings into hotels to the detriment of others living there.

Though that might not be needed. In the Vancouver case the building's strata rules says suites can't be operated for commercial purposes. If your plan is to "get your covert operation established before the developer or condo board specifically prohibited it in the building rules", then your claim is "but you're harming my established business model!"

There's also a city bylaw - which this guy is also violating - which states that the minimum stay for a suite rental is 30 days.

And so the Vancouver would-be hotel owner will lose. Eventually. After making a quick profit. But regulations will be tightened, and stopping such operations will become more routine, faster, and with less legal expenses. If your business model is for Airbnb in a yet-unbuilt condo tower, it may be too late.

Insurance companies will also adapt. Where condo developers or condo boards allow hotel suites, the other condo owners in the building will face higher insurance premiums.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by Simplicity

Let's not look at this as anything other than what it is which is that they've had 3 years to generate 75 sales, many of which will be push/assignment sales to come. There's still a tough road to hoe here.

row to hoe...hoeing a road is difficult and makes driving it on it after uncomfortable....

75 is great, if that's true, but I agree, we saw a similar optimistic start with glasshouse and it subsequently slowed to a crawl.

...but better than if the opening fell flat.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by trueviking

row to hoe...hoeing a road is difficult and makes driving it on it after uncomfortable....

75 is great, if that's true, but I agree, we saw a similar optimistic start with glasshouse and it subsequently slowed to a crawl.

...but better than if the opening fell flat.

You know, I even know that it's 'row' to hoe. I have no idea what I was thinking at the moment. I think sometimes I'm just typing between tasks and my mind is elsewhere.

Anyway, that's a lot of undecideds who are going to have to come to the table to move that many units. The question is whether they can sell ~3 units/week for the next year, and thereafter, sell another ~150. I'm dubious.

[buzzg]

My biggest question is actually whether they'd be willing to reduce the scale of the project if the sales don't go fast enough. Like let's say they're still decent but not quite high enough to build the 45 storey tower, (at what point) do they go "hey let's just cut out the middle 15 (or whatever) floors and get going on this." Like are they dead set on being the new tallest that they'd cancel all together if they can't sell enough?

[Tacheguy]

Originally Posted by buzzg

My biggest question is actually whether they'd be willing to reduce the scale of the project if the sales don't go fast enough. Like let's say they're still decent but not quite high enough to build the 45 storey tower, (at what point) do they go "hey let's just cut out the middle 15 (or whatever) floors and get going on this." Like are they dead set on being the new tallest that they'd cancel all together if they can't sell enough?

Fewer units would mean fewer overhead amenities. And the amenities are what people seem attracted to in this case.

[NK59]

Originally Posted by buzzg

My biggest question is actually whether they'd be willing to reduce the scale of the project if the sales don't go fast enough. Like let's say they're still decent but not quite high enough to build the 45 storey tower, (at what point) do they go "hey let's just cut out the middle 15 (or whatever) floors and get going on this." Like are they dead set on being the new tallest that they'd cancel all together if they can't sell enough?

Could they just axe floors without allowing buyers the opportunity to exit their purchase agreement?

[lilwayne]

I think that the amount of money they have spent on advertising, promotion etc it would be a complete disaster if this project gets cancelled, they are really banking on this project moving forward and will do everything in their power to make it happen. I think the only thing they might do is make some of the floors available as rental suites or something.. but they had a really strong start in terms of sales, and I bet theres tons of people on the fence right now... I think having a grocer officially signed on to anchor the project may help boost sales a bit...

their not even opening their sales to public til October 26th for some reason