WINSTON-SALEM | Development Guide

[westsalem18]

Originally Posted by DCMetroRaleigh

Omission speaks volumes. What major or significant East Coast city doesn’t have an Amtrak stop? For those of us to travel between Winston and DC/NYC often, it’s huge.

Maybe there are 10 of you in WS that fit that regular need? I go to DC/NYC several times a year and would always prefer to drive to DC (faster) and fly to NYC (affordable). The train from Raliegh to DC is 6 hrs, which means from Winston to DC is 7-8 hrs?

This is a novelty, but at least the City can now finally justify spending so much money to renovate the station that's been basically sitting empty since completion.

[Matthew]

I think it's more about just being connected nationally by several different types of transportation and having your city's name on a route. You have more than one option to go there. I can tell you that some businesses here in Atlanta have said they take rail transportation into consideration. Those trains stop at every crossroads with a shack or something along the tracks, which takes forever, but they don't stop in Winston-Salem. I would've taken Amtrak a few times, but it didn't go to Winston-Salem or my hometown of Asheville, so I never took the trains. It would be fun to take our son Noah on a train ride. It's usually a nice upper-end experience (at least it is on the Northeast Corridor) and it's relaxing, if you don't mind stopping at Concord, China Grove, Salisbury, Denton, Lexington, Thomasville, etc.,. One of my suggestions is to make the line between Winston-Salem and Charlotte, which passes through Iredell County, a non-stop route at higher speed. It could be a good way to travel to Uptown on business and to sports events, if it's non-stop. Though I'm sure stops at Clemmons, Mocksville, Statesville, Mooresville, Davidson, and Huntersville are part of the attraction of that line. And that is what makes it slow. Maybe they can offer a cheaper ticket that stops at every crossroads and charge a little extra for a non-stop train for those who don't want to wait at every stop along the way. It needs to be competitive and that starts with cutting stops to every small town along the way.

It is definitely a big subject a lot of people are talking about right now and I haven't seen this much effort toward rail in Winston-Salem since the late-1990s, when there was talk of a train between Winston-Salem and my hometown of Asheville, with an actual passenger train visiting Winston-Salem for a train tour. An Asheville-bound train was actually the last train to depart Union Station and it should be the service that is restored, in my opinion. I've followed the growing interest in rail since last summer and can tell you the Streetcar and North-South LRT are also still being discussed and I think they are raiding rails-to-trails money to help pay for part of that North-South line. I think I posted those drawings last year?

[DCMetroRaleigh]

Precisely, Matthew. And among a culturally important segment of the young, well-educated, young business persons, and cosmopolitan, there is major modern appeal to using Amtrak. If Winston ever wants to attract major tech employers (headquarters and regional hubs), employees, and entrepreneurs, it needs to stop thinking like 1989 and start seeking the amenities Gen Z creative and STEM/STEAM class value. Amtrak's ridership has increased dramatically in the last two decades — 55 percent since the late '90s, largely because Millennials and Gen Z are incredibly using rail for regional travel. Not having this basic service undermines attempts to market Winston as a major, relevant city.

[zalo]

Originally Posted by westsalem18

They are buying the large Reynolds America building at Whitaker Park. The one with the empty fountain. This includes the portion that Cook Medical backed out of a while ago.

As for the rail, I don't understand the meaningful impact beyond the novelty. It's not like a large number of people will travel by rail regularly. This will have limited economical impact, but at least Winston Salem can say we have the same thing all the other big cities in NC have.

Who is buying the Rey.Am. (fountain) bldg. in Whitaker Park? So has Cook Medical completely changed their mind about transferring operations to Whitaker Park. This is the first of heard of this.

Regarding rail service, it is way past time that Winston gets serious for not taking a no for an answer. There certainly can be made a case for the rails to be upgraded west of the city towards Asheville thereby connecting all of the major cities of the state with rail. It seems that throughout its existence that nothing has come easy to the Camel City. The fact that Winston developed into one of the dominant industrial centers of the South from the late 1800's through a large portion of the 20th Century without ever being on a "mainline" railroad is proof positive that Winston-Salem has always punched above its weight class when it comes to its urban development as a relevant city.

The latest renderings of the Depot hotel/residential project look promising. I will say it took me a moment or two to determine whether I liked the design or not, as I also took in the rendering as looking like the two buildings on top of each other aesthetic. I think that it will better as actually built than it does in renderings....I really wish that Front Street would get moving on this, with the FED at least momentarily forecasting a less certain chance of a short term recession, rates are not going to go appreciably lower.

[westsalem18]

Originally Posted by DCMetroRaleigh

Precisely, Matthew. And among a culturally important segment of the young, well-educated, young business persons, and cosmopolitan, there is major modern appeal to using Amtrak. If Winston ever wants to attract major tech employers (headquarters and regional hubs), employees, and entrepreneurs, it needs to stop thinking like 1989 and start seeking the amenities Gen Z creative and STEM/STEAM class value. Amtrak's ridership has increased dramatically in the last two decades — 55 percent since the late '90s, largely because Millennials and Gen Z are incredibly using rail for regional travel. Not having this basic service undermines attempts to market Winston as a major, relevant city.

This isn't the northeast or northwest...ridership is up in growing metro's that are closely connected, but that's not nc.

i'm a millennial and i have lots of gen z friends. not one, not a single one in the state of nc i know cares about rail. i love when old guys tell us what we like and value. tech friends dont list rail as an important factor...but quality restaurants, bars, concert venues, large dating/friend pool, easy places to fly out of and to, and meaningful sports teams come up constantly when talking with 20's and 30's freinds about what winston lacks.

i actually had a friend in april who decided to stay back while her husband took their kids home and she stayed with extended family in greensboro and took the train back to richmond. she said it took so long that she should have just rented a car.

there's a ton of other things that money could go to that would attract young talent to the area (meaningful concert venue to start with). i'm glad it's happening and i hope some people on this forum actually use it as much as they say they will.

[westsalem18]

Originally Posted by zalo

Who is buying the Rey.Am. (fountain) bldg. in Whitaker Park? So has Cook Medical completely changed their mind about transferring operations to Whitaker Park. This is the first of heard of this..

cook backed out a long time ago but no one wants to say it out loud as it's bad press for that park and vision of high-end jobs. that whole park is a mess. did they ever finish those weird apartments over there?

the rumor on the street is purple crow decided to buy it. i hear they've been looking everywhere for 500-700k sf. something about being bought out by capital investors that want to expand or something. my guess is they are waiting on incentives if the rumors are true.

[Matthew]

That building was too big for Cook. I seem to remember they wanted to sublease something like half of it? They should've talked with Front Street Capital and bought or leased one of their new tilt-up construction buildings in a more reasonable size. Do you know if Purple Crow will restore those fountains? That's a question many have had since the entire Whitaker Park development started. I'll look into the apartment building and see if I can find photographs or something to post on Sunday morning. Last I heard, it's still under construction.

I'm a Millennial (38 years old) and a rail fan who has taken vacations that involved riding a train. In other countries, national rail systems are competitive. When I say competitive, I'm talking about being an attractive option for trips that are too short to fly and so long (with traffic and parking issues, too) you don't really want to drive there. If the Amtrak route between Winston-Salem and Charlotte is non-stop, I think it could be competitive. I really think this should be part of the discussion, but politicians and others are likely to get involved and want their cities added.

[WSBornNBred]

Millennial here, as well. I've always loved the independence of a car. Nothing against rail and other public transportation, and I might catch an Amtrak to DC once for the experience, but it wouldn't be a daily (or even yearly) mode of transportation for me.

With that being said, it would be cool if we had an Amtrak connection here, but I don't think it really moves the needle either way. I also don't think rail is the future of transport - autonomous vehicles are. They may be 10-20 years away, but so is any type of rail transportation in Winston.

[Matthew]

I heard on NPR that autonomous trucks could be here by the end of the year?

If someone told me I could have any project from my Winston-Salem wish-list, it would be a "sizable" downtown amphitheatre. It doesn't have to be fancy. I really wish City Council, maybe a local developer, and the business community would push for that. The impact on hotels, downtown businesses, and more would be amazing. I've suggested this for maybe 15 years and even talked to a few people who could make it happen, but then... nothing.

[DCMetroRaleigh]

The Triangle is increasingly linked to the Northeast corridor, which relatively is just a stone’s throw away from corridor city Richmond. The dynamism of tech in the Triangle, plus domestic immigration, is only stenghtening those links, and rail is Part of that link. Thankfully, the government is committed to the Southeast High Speed Rail Corridor project, which will introduce faster rail service between North Carolina and Richmond and the big cities in the Northeast corridor. It is in Winston’s best longterm interest to be connected to this corridor.
I know there are some people here who exemplify the stereotypical small town Winston thinking. I am not one of them. Neither are Zalo and Matthew.
One thing I love about the Charlotte crew; they think not just big, but world-class city big, no matter how much others scoff or try to downsize their vision.
Finally, I am a millennial and many of my peers often use Amtrak to go back and forth between NC cities and DC/NYC. WestSalem
And I must operate in different social circles, demographics.

[zalo]

Originally Posted by westsalem18

cook backed out a long time ago but no one wants to say it out loud as it's bad press for that park and vision of high-end jobs. that whole park is a mess. did they ever finish those weird apartments over there?

the rumor on the street is purple crow decided to buy it. i hear they've been looking everywhere for 500-700k sf. something about being bought out by capital investors that want to expand or something. my guess is they are waiting on incentives if the rumors are true.

What exactly happened?? It seemed that Cook was very, very committed to relocating from their existing buildings on Hanes Mill Rd to a new site. I seemed to recall that there was some consideration on their part to select property in Stokes County & build a new complex before they committed to Whitaker Park. It appears to be very strange that the company went through what I assume to be a great deal of due diligence between the two future possibilities to end up doing nothing??

In regards to Whitaker Park, i wonder why ProKidney didn't consider a site there, where it even appears that they could have gone into some of the intended Cook space. Or even do new construction. I would think that since Whitaker Park is an Opportunity Economic Enterprise Zone, that the tax considerations should have been of some relevance, rather than purchasing property in a nondescript business park. If there is some type of business logic that makes sense, I'm not seeing it I thought it was reported that the original developer turned the apartment project over to another developer and they had commenced construction. For my part, I have always been opposed to this residential use being incorporated into Whitaker Park. My preference would to have be to develop all the properties within the park as commercial/light industrial. This due to the fact that there is such a shortage of such industrial properties within Forsyth County. We need more options than less regarding economic recruitment...

[WSBornNBred]

Speaking of small-town mindsets: If you are a Wake Forest fan (or just a fan of Winston-Salem in general), make sure you are supporting Wake Forest athletics. Go to games, buy merchandise, etc. There is a reckoning coming for smaller schools and smaller markets. Wake probably will not have a seat at the table in the new media-rights-driven college athletics environment (a downside to having one of the smallest alumni bases in Division 1), and it's crucially important that they continue to receive fan support from the larger W-S community.

[DCMetroRaleigh]

Originally Posted by WSBornNBred

Speaking of small-town mindsets: If you are a Wake Forest fan (or just a fan of Winston-Salem in general), make sure you are supporting Wake Forest athletics. Go to games, buy merchandise, etc. There is a reckoning coming for smaller schools and smaller markets. Wake probably will not have a seat at the table in the new media-rights-driven college athletics environment (a downside to having one of the smallest alumni bases in Division 1), and it's crucially important that they continue to receive fan support from the larger W-S community.

Applause!

[zalo]

Originally Posted by DCMetroRaleigh

Applause!

Proud to say that I've been a strong supporter of WFU athletics in the 24 years that I've lived in Winston. Sent my kids to the sports camps, football tailgating, sitting on the hill with our kids when they were younger, many a game attended at the Joel, soccer matches watching nationally ranked teams consistently...Caught a little baseball...

Doing this with mostly with people similar to myself, folks who have moved to Winston & embraced Wake Forest as their hometown local team. Alot of good times have been had...

[Matthew]

Projects & Construction:
I want to thank the photographers and local businesses, sharing updates on projects, who make this thread possible. Without you, these updates won't happen. If you can, please support any local businesses sharing photographs and thank them.

Distracted Matt? If this update had an official theme, it would be finding updates on projects we haven't seen in a while. Yes, I searched for projects that haven't appeared on our weekly/monthly updates in several months.

Yes, that is a new life science headquarters moving to downtown Winston-Salem!

• Video Link

Truliant Tower:
The TRULIANT letters are fully installed on both sides of the building. We are still waiting on the sunburst logo.

I think the photographer tried to remove the power lines? Sunday (7/30):

Credit: Bryan Lewis


Credit: Dale Briggs

The view from the new courthouse:

Credit: Wagner Appliance Sales, Inc.


Credit: Doug Rice

Soul Asylum Concert in Bailey Park with Truliant Sign turned-on:

Credit: Daphne McKinney

Dishwalla Concert in Bailey Park with the Truliant Sign turned-off:

Credit: suzyfielders

Kaleideum Science Museum:


Credit: kaleideum


Credit: _unfilteredlens

Saturday (8/5):

Credit: blumconstruction

New Life Science Headquarters:
Brinter will move their headquarters from Finland to downtown Winston-Salem. Brinter 3D-prints cartliage-based bioimplants and have clients in ten countries. They are currently known for their 3D-printed meniscus implants for knee surgery using material that gets regenerated by the patient’s cells. It could also have other applications in shoulder, hip, nose, and ear implants. Yes, regenerative medicine that Winston-Salem is internationally known for and the world leader in. They are working to create a regenerative-medicine-based bioimplant using their own bioprinters. CEO Tom Alapaattikoski is already in the process of moving to Winston-Salem and expects the company to double in size over the next 6-12 months, with all of those jobs in downtown Winston-Salem. Company CEO Tom Alapaattikoski said, “Eventually, 3D bioprinting and biomaterials will create replacement parts for all human parts, I believe."

Two Cities:


Credit: Landmark Builders, Inc.

Brouwerij DuBois:
This new craft beer brewery is preparing to install their signage. Sadly, they never have any construction photographs, which is why they rarely make an appearance on this thread. The focus is on signing-up people for something and not showing construction progress. This construction thread is good "free" business advertising, but only while something is under construction and only if photographs of the construction are available.

Forsyth County Courthouse:


Credit: DWSP

Körner’s Folly Visitor Center:
The site of this visitor center is now a brownfield. They found a UST at the site and petroleum in the soil at the site. This is not a public health issue and the project will be built.

Lofts @ Whitaker Park:

Drywall delievery at this apartment conversion project:

Credit: Timothy Williams

Facture @ BLDG 87:
So, I thought I would look into the other co-warehousing project, to see how it was coming along. And it is under construction, with completion set for this summer. Sorry I haven't checked into it before. We follow so many projects it can be overwhelming, but that is a good thing! It means Winston-Salem is booming. I call these co-warehousing, but they are also called ecommerce entrepreneurial spaces. Projects like this seek to build a vibrant ecommerce entrepreneurial community, with private offices, carrier pickups/logistics specialists, loading docks, conference rooms, and warehouse suites. This 1920 building is on a bicycle and pedestrian commuter path that also includes a future light rail line for rail transit.

The only photographs I could find are from February:

Credit: Facture


Credit: Facture

New Downtown Elementary School:
The old furniture factory complex and office headquarters (made Thomasville Furniture at one time) is now demolished and the school system is finishing the design.

Downtown's Industry Hill (formerly Produce District) is fast developing:

Credit: Brandon Ore

Truist Stadium Upgrades:
Construction will begin soon on $4 million in upgrades. I'm guessing they are waiting until after baseball season? This will be the first phase of work. Frank L. Blum is the General Contractor and Michael Graves Architects is the architect.

Metropolitan Mixed-use:

This image is several weeks old, but new to us:

Credit: MHAworks Architecture

Bellisima:
Remember this project from the old WSTB Forum? A renovation and expansion of a 1940s building into an upscale regional destination wedding dress store? These are the approved design changes for that project. This design is a little different from what we discussed several months ago. It is still a dramatic renovation of the old building. It's interesting since it's at the base of a tall cliff wall, with a street and houses above the retail building.


Credit: Bellissima

New Tenants/Leases:
Grubb Properties is in talks with a coffee shop to lease the retail space at Link 4th Street.

Do you remember in 2022 when I posted at WSTB on someone considering opening Hargro House at the O'Hanlon Building and using the mezzanine floor? That project is now happening. It will be great to see that space filled again. It took a year for construction to move forward, but as we have seen at WSTB... it can sometimes take a year from me breaking the news to construction starting.

The former Rominger Southern Furniture Building already has a potential tenant. Chris Leab is interested in leasing it for his Dream Center. It's not a done deal, but has a great chance of happening.

Gnarly Blends had a soft opening on Saturday (8/5):

Credit: gnarlyblends

African-American History Museum:
Our first rendering of this project and we now know the name of the architect. Glenn Fulk was the architect for Bookmarks, too, which is among my favorite designs downtown.


Credit: Preservation Forsyth

Interstate 74:


Credit: Fox 8

Novant Health Forsyth Medical Center Renovation:
The women's and children's center is now completed. Each new patient room is 20% larger than the old patient rooms and has a modern layout. They are designed to be as home-like as possible. Also included in this completed phase is an obstetrics emergency department. In addition, they renovated the hospital’s labor and delivery unit and added a new first floor waiting area. The next phase of work will expand the pre- and postoperative space and will add more natural light in the overall facility. Work is now starting on the Cancer Institute, in a three phase project. Renovations of existing buildings should be completed in 2027.

Artreaux Apartments:


Credit: DWSP


Credit: High Rock Land & Hardscapes


Credit: High Rock Land & Hardscapes

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Alternative Transportation:

Amtrak at Union Station:

• Video Link

New Hangars: Built!
Grand opening for new hangars and celebrating the start of construction on the terminal restoration. Since more hangars are about to start construction in April, this project will stay on our project list, but not the construction list.


Credit: flysmithreynolds


Credit: greaterwinstonsaleminc


Credit: flysmithreynolds

Your City

[yadkin]

After reading the comments about train service, I can only reiterate that W-S is deficient in ALL forms of transportation for a city its size. There is no airport with commercial service (all boards nationwide simply indicate Greensboro); there is no passenger train service (and whatever one thinks, it is a valid and essential marker for attracting people and businesses); and the highway system is barely adequate (only after 30 years finally building the beltway). By the way, we just spent a few days in W-S and the approach from Greensboro to W-S portrays Greensboro as a major transportation hub with junctions for numerous signed 2 & 3-digit Interstates (once again essential for attracting businesses - new I 685 will end in Greensboro, U.S. 421 west of W-S needs Interstate designation and by the way airport exit signs are PTI - GSO just to make sure one is aware that it is the Greensboro Airport).

By the way, thanks again Matt for your interest and postings - I really like the Truliant sign on the former Wachovia Tower. As I have commented a generic name such as Winston Tower indicates no one has a specific interest - now someone does and it seems viable again.

[sugar1]

Originally Posted by yadkin

After reading the comments about train service, I can only reiterate that W-S is deficient in ALL forms of transportation for a city its size. There is no airport with commercial service (all boards nationwide simply indicate Greensboro); there is no passenger train service (and whatever one thinks, it is a valid and essential marker for attracting people and businesses); and the highway system is barely adequate (only after 30 years finally building the beltway). By the way, we just spent a few days in W-S and the approach from Greensboro to W-S portrays Greensboro as a major transportation hub with junctions for numerous signed 2 & 3-digit Interstates (once again essential for attracting businesses - new I 685 will end in Greensboro, U.S. 421 west of W-S needs Interstate designation and by the way airport exit signs are PTI - GSO just to make sure one is aware that it is the Greensboro Airport).

By the way, thanks again Matt for your interest and postings - I really like the Truliant sign on the former Wachovia Tower. As I have commented a generic name such as Winston Tower indicates no one has a specific interest - now someone does and it seems viable again.

The validity of your points is depressing. Things are looking up though.

[4thandBroadSt]

Originally Posted by DCMetroRaleigh

The Triangle is increasingly linked to the Northeast corridor, which relatively is just a stone’s throw away from corridor city Richmond. The dynamism of tech in the Triangle, plus domestic immigration, is only stenghtening those links, and rail is Part of that link. Thankfully, the government is committed to the Southeast High Speed Rail Corridor project, which will introduce faster rail service between North Carolina and Richmond and the big cities in the Northeast corridor. It is in Winston’s best longterm interest to be connected to this corridor.
I know there are some people here who exemplify the stereotypical small town Winston thinking. I am not one of them. Neither are Zalo and Matthew.
One thing I love about the Charlotte crew; they think not just big, but world-class city big, no matter how much others scoff or try to downsize their vision.
Finally, I am a millennial and many of my peers often use Amtrak to go back and forth between NC cities and DC/NYC. WestSalem
And I must operate in different social circles, demographics.

I typed up a fairly long response to the rail "bashing" above but you seemed to have captured the points I wanted to convey precisely. (Millennial as well)

Couple of additional personal experiences: Friends from Charlotte and Raleigh don't visit as often precisely because we don't have rail service. Interstate 40,85, and 77 near each respective city are zoos and at gridlock between 4:30-6 almost every day (and worse on a Friday). 1 accident on either throws an automatic half hour delay.

Not so long ago with 85 construction to Charlotte it was faster to drive to High Point and hop on an Amtrak rather than to drive and sit on the highway.

Drove to Raleigh for a concert this weekend. It cost me 12 dollars to take an Amtrak from Raleigh to Greensboro to attend the Wyndham Open while my better half drove back to Winston Salem later. A very convenient alterative transportation method that can only get better.

[Robinhood]

Mark me down as another prospective millennial train user.

I've taken Amtrak from High Point or GSO to DC multiple times. The Crescent line and the Carolinian/Piedmont line diverge just after the Greensboro station, and the Crescent heads directly to DC, shaving 2.5 hours off the travel time and stopping at six stations in between Greensboro and DC instead of 12. The trip comes in at right around 6 hours to DC, and if I could hop on in Winston instead of Greensboro or High Point, it would definitely be my preferred method of travel. Flights are quicker, but considering the additional time and hassle of security checks, travel to and from airports, etc., it's not an unreasonable difference. And driving to DC is a huge pain if you're staying in the district. The last few places I've stayed in DC had daily parking rates between $55-60, all for a car I would have only used to arrive and depart.

And we do sometimes take the train to Raleigh, Cary, Durham, etc., mostly for fun, but I'd do it more if the train could get me all the way from Winston to those cities. Taking a bike on Amtrak has gotten easier and easier, and there are buses, Uber, those annoying scooters, etc. in most destinations.

[Gaz_Ebo]

I feel strongly enough on the topic that I actually registered just to reply about the train situation in Winston. As a millennial STEM worker I apparently fall into the category of people that Winston spends a lot of effort to attract, and our lack of any real train service is definitely something that comes up in conversation these days. It is becoming clear that not everyone wants (or can) swap to an electric car in the next decade, and I believe we are seeing other options (ebikes, trains, bicycles) become more desirable as they pick up the balance.

It is also good to remember that train service is an important option for everyone who can't get in their well-maintained car and drive to something several states away. Regular train service would be a huge positive for the poorest and oldest citizens in Winston.