NEW YORK | Hudson Yards; 40 msf of development - Page 45

citybooster · #**881** Posted **Jul 26, 2020, 3:37 PM**

From the older renderings, there's just one tower probably in the 1,000-1,100 ft area deemed for primarily office space preliminary dubbed West Tower or something like that? Then seven or eight residential towers between 500-900 ft or so...looks like they want to be more individually creative with these.. some affordable rentals (or I guess "affordable" in a Manhattan context... didn't see specific income ranges) though the vast majority is going to be market rate rental, if I'm not mistaken? Supposed to have schools and plenty of park land as well.

BK1985 · #**882** Posted **Jul 26, 2020, 3:52 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by dropdeaded209

lol wow who could have seen this coming? good luck with the giant soulless placemaking failure of hudson yards... who wants to make some bets on when Nordstrom goes under?

I don't find it to be a laughing matter, how insensitive.

mrnyc · #**883** Posted **Aug 3, 2020, 12:41 AM**

i always thought the mall would have a rough go even before corona. major retail will probably work better there eventually when the western yards are completed and there is much more built in residential.

Crawford · #**884** Posted **Aug 3, 2020, 12:49 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrnyc

i always thought the mall would have a rough go even before corona. major retail will probably work better there eventually when the western yards are completed and there is much more built in residential.

The mall has some of the highest rents for indoor space in Manhattan. It's extremely valuable space. Neiman Marcus went bankrupt due to skyrocketing debt issues preceding the pandemic.

Also, if the space wasn't valuable, Neiman Marcus would have kept the space. That's the whole point. They're trying to raise money to survive, so have been marketing their most valuable leases.

RobEss · #**885** Posted **Aug 5, 2020, 5:00 PM**

I am constantly baffled by anyone who still see's a future in the standard 20th century concept of a 'mall'

ardecila · #**886** Posted **Aug 5, 2020, 7:13 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobEss

I am constantly baffled by anyone who still see's a future in the standard 20th century concept of a 'mall'

Not sure why. In wealthy cities like New York, shopping is an activity that requires a physical venue, which makes it less likely to be substituted with online purchases. Retail is a broad category - some kinds of purchases/buyers are more likely to switch to online than others. A wealthy tourist in New York is far more likely to visit a physical store for a designer handbag (because shopping is just something that tourists do) whereas a middle-class family in Ohio shopping for blue jeans may switch to online. For that reason I don't see the Fifth Avenues and Rodeo Drives going anywhere - the insane rents and construction budgets may moderate, but I don't see the shopping districts going away.

As for malls, they are just aggregations of individual stores and their ongoing success/failure will depend on the factors I mentioned above. These are different than the factors of the past. The old adage is that "retail follows rooftops" but people are moving more and more of their day-to-day purchases online, so having residential nearby will matter less, even dense residential. Physical retail in the future may depend far more on being a destination for tourists and people from across the region, so having excellent transportation links and unique offerings are more important than ever. A mall at Hudson Yards may do just fine, given the tourist draw of the Vessel and the huge volumes of people at Penn Station/Port Authority nearby.

Crawford · #**887** Posted **Aug 5, 2020, 7:39 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobEss

I am constantly baffled by anyone who still see's a future in the standard 20th century concept of a 'mall'

I'm baffled that people believe that consumers will no longer want to consume in social environment.

"Malls" (aka clustered retail) have existed since the Roman era, possibly earlier. They're here to stay. Of course there will be radical evolutions, but in-person consumerism won't go extinct.

Busy Bee · #**888** Posted **Aug 5, 2020, 9:01 PM**

And everyone will work from home. You didn't hear?

RobEss · #**889** Posted **Aug 6, 2020, 4:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobEss

...in the standard 20th century concept of a 'mall'

Important context

NYguy · #**890** Posted **Aug 9, 2020, 8:37 PM**

https://www.6sqft.com/king-nyani-gor...la-abzug-park/

A giant gorilla sculpture is coming to Hudson Yards

AUGUST 6, 2020
BY DANA SCHULZ

Quote:

To raise awareness and funds for the critically endangered gorilla species, public artists Gillie and Marc Schattner have created a massive sculpture of the animal
that will be unveiled later this month in Hudson Yards’ Bella Abzug Park. Titled King Nyani, Swahili for gorilla, it’s the world’s largest bronze gorilla sculpture and
can fit two to three humans just in its hands.

Through a partnership with the Hudson Yards-Hell’s Kitchen Alliance, the sculpture will be on display in Bella Abzug Park as of August 24, 2020 and
will remain on view for 11 months.

https://lovethelast.com/pages/meeting-nyani

mrnyc · #**891** Posted **Aug 10, 2020, 3:21 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila

Not sure why. In wealthy cities like New York, shopping is an activity that requires a physical venue, which makes it less likely to be substituted with online purchases. Retail is a broad category - some kinds of purchases/buyers are more likely to switch to online than others. A wealthy tourist in New York is far more likely to visit a physical store for a designer handbag (because shopping is just something that tourists do) whereas a middle-class family in Ohio shopping for blue jeans may switch to online. For that reason I don't see the Fifth Avenues and Rodeo Drives going anywhere - the insane rents and construction budgets may moderate, but I don't see the shopping districts going away.

As for malls, they are just aggregations of individual stores and their ongoing success/failure will depend on the factors I mentioned above. These are different than the factors of the past. The old adage is that "retail follows rooftops" but people are moving more and more of their day-to-day purchases online, so having residential nearby will matter less, even dense residential. Physical retail in the future may depend far more on being a destination for tourists and people from across the region, so having excellent transportation links and unique offerings are more important than ever. A mall at Hudson Yards may do just fine, given the tourist draw of the Vessel and the huge volumes of people at Penn Station/Port Authority nearby.

i never really saw anybody in the hy mall in any numbers, and more gawkers than buyers, so i cant imagine it was doing well pre-covid. one of the problems was there was nothing unique about hudson yards shops, other than neiman marcus, which was unique for nyc at least and is now gone.

as it stands, the anchor site may not come back as retail at all, facebook was considering it. maybe the mall can adjust and try to be a new destination eventually, but the foreseeable reality is retail is in for an even rockier road ahead:

https://www.cpexecutive.com/post/amp...ovid-19-world/

NYguy · #**892** Posted **Aug 10, 2020, 2:37 PM**

^ That's funny, because everytime I went through there it was pretty full. Now, whether or not people were just "looky loos" (like me), I couldn't tell you, although there were people with obvious bags.

But this "mall" (I use quotes because it's not a typical mall) is really 5th Avenue in a box. Related delayed the opening once because the wanted to wait until some of the office towers were open. I still think it was an early opening, because the neighborhood isn't there yet, and hasn't been built. But that's ok. This thing is new, it's way to early to be talking about a failure or success. It's a place that still doesn't even exists in most people's minds, despite how much we here at the forum may have talked about it. New York is a very large city, with many competing places. And by the way, retail in general hasn't been at it's greatest everywhere. But people know 5th Avenue for what it is. They know Broadway for what it is. They know Grand Central. They know the Garden. Those places have been around, and are easily identifiable. When the Hudson Yards becomes more of a fabric of New York, and can really anchor a developed west side as its centerpiece (which could be a decade away), then we can come out and discuss where we are with it. But it's really way too early to even suggests a failure of anything here. As I've said, I've been through there a bit, and still couldn't really tell you what's in there. And I watched the place get built from the ground up. So there probably are more "looky loos" right now, trying to figure out the place. But that's good.

mrnyc · #**893** Posted **Aug 10, 2020, 7:21 PM**

^ exactly. as i said, the mall, if it works and doesn't become a glorified manhattan mall type disaster, at best will come into its own more when the area is more built out. we'll see.