Canadian Foreign Policy & Affairs II - Page 45

Acajack · #**881** Posted **Dec 12, 2023, 7:04 PM**

Change in policy?

CANZOZ(?) now calling for a cease-fire.

https://www.pm.gc.ca/en/news/stateme...nd-new-zealand

YOWetal · #**882** Posted **Dec 12, 2023, 7:30 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Change in policy?

CANZOZ(?) now calling for a cease-fire.

https://www.pm.gc.ca/en/news/stateme...nd-new-zealand

It doesn't seem to really call for a cease fire and is still pretty balanced. Of course depending on where you think the balance is. The white boomers seem to have lost touch with where the Canadian public is on this. Trudeau govt is certainly more in tune with it.

Acajack · #**883** Posted **Dec 12, 2023, 7:37 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by YOWetal

It doesn't seem to really call for a cease fire and is still pretty balanced. Of course depending on where you think the balance is. The white boomers seem to have lost touch with where the Canadian public is on this. Trudeau govt is certainly more in tune with it.

Are you saying I am a white boomer?

someone123 · #**884** Posted **Dec 12, 2023, 7:39 PM**

There's nothing wrong with calling for a ceasefire that has a Hamas surrender and hostage release as part of it. The horrible one-sided tankie type take is that anything Israel does is bad, they deserve whatever they get, they're in a commanding oppressor position, and so they have to just "take the hit", whatever the hit is. This view seems to come from a blend of Islamism/Antisemitism, anti-Westernism, and extreme ignorance about the world and resources available.

I think maybe the worst component impact-wise is the Fukyama-esque ambient sense that the USA and other related countries can basically do whatever at this point and the world will remain functional, so it's all about developing baroque morally upstanding positions. Meanwhile in the real world there are 2 major deterrence failures and there isn't really any coherent plan for Ukraine. It's a cousin to our Canadian affliction of debating plastic straw bans while people can't afford housing and our government finances are in shambles.

Justanothermember · #**885** Posted **Dec 12, 2023, 7:41 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by YOWetal

It doesn't seem to really call for a cease fire and is still pretty balanced. Of course depending on where you think the balance is. The white boomers seem to have lost touch with where the Canadian public is on this. Trudeau govt is certainly more in tune with it.

I feel like this is a pretty racist and ageist comment to make, labelling people based on their race and age.

kwoldtimer · #**886** Posted **Dec 12, 2023, 9:09 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Change in policy?

CANZOZ(?) now calling for a cease-fire.

https://www.pm.gc.ca/en/news/stateme...nd-new-zealand

Change in vote, more than a change in policy, istm.
Nice to see the old Can/Aus/NZ trio stepping up at the UN.

YOWetal · #**887** Posted **Dec 12, 2023, 9:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justanothermember

I feel like this is a pretty racist and ageist comment to make, labelling people based on their race and age.

Nah. We are allowed to note that people of different races and ages have different political views and anyway white people are fair game for any generalization. Didn't you get the memo?

savevp · #**888** Posted **Dec 12, 2023, 9:36 PM**

The statement calls for a ceasefire and says that Hamas cannot govern Gaza. So its balanced, but also rather useless; Hamas won't be stepping down voluntarily.

Still, good for Canada to show some solidarity with our closest 'brother' nations.

shreddog · #**889** Posted **Dec 12, 2023, 9:42 PM**

Yeah too bad those damn "white boomers" just can't get it and be more on trend!

link

Acajack · #**890** Posted **Dec 13, 2023, 12:13 AM**

Reactions seem to agree with me that this represents a policy shift on Canada's part.

Plus what Biden said.

When it starts.
To fall apart.
Man, it really falls apart.

Acajack · #**891** Posted **Dec 13, 2023, 12:57 AM**

'We'll see how that flies haha"

acottawa · #**892** Posted **Dec 13, 2023, 2:46 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by shreddog

Yeah too bad those damn "white boomers" just can't get it and be more on trend!

link

I wonder if they are unaware what Hamas does to LGBT people.

casper · #**893** Posted **Dec 13, 2023, 2:53 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by savevp

The statement calls for a ceasefire and says that Hamas cannot govern Gaza. So its balanced, but also rather useless; Hamas won't be stepping down voluntarily.

Still, good for Canada to show some solidarity with our closest 'brother' nations.

Absolutely. Very balanced statement. Good to see Canada (with Australia and NZ) showing international leadership based on our shared principles and values.

The US and UK can chose to come along or not. From Biden's comments the US is clearly noticing and I think it is very likely in the coming days we see a shift from them.

O-tacular · #**894** Posted **Dec 13, 2023, 3:12 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by acottawa

I wonder if they are unaware what Hamas does to LGBT people.

Maybe he understands that innocent children and civilians are also Palestinian and deserve freedom and not to be carpet bombed out of existence.

Why is it so easy for some to see the suffering of Ukrainians but not Palestinians.

YOWetal · #**895** Posted **Dec 13, 2023, 4:11 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by O-tacular

Maybe he understands that innocent children and civilians are also Palestinian and deserve freedom and not to be carpet bombed out of existence.

Why is it so easy for some to see the suffering of Ukrainians but not Palestinians.

Think you missed the point. There aren't any gays for Russia groups for precisely the same reason. Nor are there any Russian Orthodox zealots for Ukraine protestors I suppose. There is certainly a lot of suffering in the world but weird woke intersectionality aside it's turkeys voting for Christmas.

O-tacular · #**896** Posted **Dec 13, 2023, 6:01 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Think you missed the point. There aren't any gays for Russia groups for precisely the same reason. Nor are there any Russian Orthodox zealots for Ukraine protestors I suppose. There is certainly a lot of suffering in the world but weird woke intersectionality aside it's turkeys voting for Christmas.

I think you missed the point. Hamas is not Palestine. Just like Benjamin Netanyahu is not Israel.

Docere · #**897** Posted **Dec 13, 2023, 6:02 PM**

Not surprising to see Mendicino (Eglinton-Lawrence) and Housefather (Mount Royal) making their objections to the UN vote known.

savevp · #**898** Posted **Dec 13, 2023, 7:10 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by O-tacular

I think you missed the point. Hamas is not Palestine. Just like Benjamin Netanyahu is not Israel.

In all likelihood, the only scenario where gay/trans people have rights in a post-Hamas Gaza is an Israeli military occupation. Ironic.

whatnext · #**899** Posted **Dec 13, 2023, 7:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by acottawa

I wonder if they are unaware what Hamas does to LGBT people.

Yeah exactly. Incredibly naive.

...LGBTQ people face such dire threats to their safety in Gaza and the West Bank that hundreds have fled to Israel as refugees. When interviewed by the United Nations, escapees have recounted harrowing torture and death threats from both family members and Palestinian security forces. Yet even abroad, these people are not safe. Last year, Ahmad Abu Marhia, a 25-year-old gay man living under asylum in Israel, was kidnapped and then beheaded in the West Bank just two months before he was scheduled to immigrate to Canada....

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/don...ass-homophobia

someone123 · #**900** Posted **Dec 13, 2023, 7:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by O-tacular

Maybe he understands that innocent children and civilians are also Palestinian and deserve freedom and not to be carpet bombed out of existence.

Why is it so easy for some to see the suffering of Ukrainians but not Palestinians.

Well, Russia chose to start the war with Ukraine while this latest conflict began with Hamas, not Israel.

I don't actually think the objection that Hamas throws gay people off of rooftops is that relevant but the Palestinian protest movement seems to have a lot of problems and pretty low informational content. You have the "river to the sea" people, the general disregard for suffering on the Israeli side, and too much credulity around people accepting whatever comes from Hamas. For example the death numbers in Gaza come from Hamas and they have an incentive to exaggerate. We don't really know what is happening there.

The narrative around genocide of Palestinians also doesn't fit in with their rapidly growing population. It would be valid to blame Israel for not working hard enough to avoid civilian casualties in Gaza but so many people just say Israel shouldn't be allowed to retaliate at all and needs to live with Hamas next door working on destroying them. The October attacks proved beyond all doubt how untenable that is.

I think the anti-Semitism and low information bandwagon effect behind these protests probably encourages Israel. They know that most of these people complaining about Israel either hate them no matter what or will be onto the next issue of the day soon, and anyway these people mostly don't offer any useful alternatives. Hate-on for Israel aside, what do we expect them to do? I am not sure leaving Hamas alone is even best for Gaza as eventually they will run Gaza into the ground more and more while provoking Israel into greater and greater responses.