Quote:
Originally Posted by rgolch
Except it’s not just African Americans leaving. It’s also suburban whites and other ethnicities.
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Actually, no. The bolded is just not true at all if talking about the major racial groups. Literally the only major groups to lose population between suburbs, city, and total MSA were suburban whites (outside of the city) and blacks in the city. The population of black people outside of the city limits inside of the MSA increased.
This is all from the American Community Survey 1 year, comparing 2010 ACS to 2016 ACS (which is what you're supposed to do - the Census states that you shouldn't compare ACS to official Census, but you know...nobody listens because they don't actually know what they're doing with the data).
City
Hispanic (of any race): +39,508 people (+5.2%)
White, Non-Hispanic Alone: +28,444 people (+3.33%)
2 or More Races: +27,357 people (+58.2%)
Asian alone: +22,401 people (+14.9%)
Other race alone: +3670 people (+1.1%)
Hispanic Non-White Alone: +14,542 people (+4%)
Black alone: -103,342 people (-11.4%)
Only group to lose people in the city was Black alone population.
Suburbs (i.e. the area of the MSA outside of the city of Chicago)
Hispanic (of any race): +92,025 people (+7.6%)
Asian alone: +57,917 people (+15%)
Black alone: +39,697 people (+5.4%)
Hispanic, Non-White alone: +38,799 people (+7.3%)
2 or More Races: +38,027 people (+27.5%)
Other race alone: +26,114 people (+5.5%)
White Non-Hispanic Alone: -180,992 people (-4.2%)
Only group to lose people in the suburbs was white non-hispanic people. Not even the Black alone population lost population.
Total Metro Area
Hispanic (of any race): +131,533 people (+6.7%)
Asian alone: +80,318 people (+15%)
2 or More Races: +65,384 people (+35.3%)
Hispanic Non-White alone: +53,341 people (+6%)
Other race alone: +29,784 people (+3.7%)
Black alone: -63,645 people (-3.9%)
White Non-Hispanic alone: -152,548 people (-2.9%)
Only populations to lose people were Black alone (see above - suburbs gained in population for this) and white-non-hispanic population (only the suburbs lost population for this). What you say is inaccurate. Literally the only groups losing population in the entire area are blacks (just in the city) and suburban white non-hispanic (only in the suburbs). Everyone else has increased in numbers since 2010.
Quote:
Originally Posted by glowrock
As compared with where, exactly? Seriously, I know of very, very few cities even remotely close to Chicago's caliber with respect to overall amenities with much lower overall tax rates. Chicago has no additional city income tax over the Illinois state income tax (which is pretty much middle of the road, honestly), and while property taxes certainly aren't low by any standard, they're not any higher than most other major cities I know of. Quite a bit lower in terms of percentage of assessed value than many, honestly.
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Well, the fact is that most people have no idea what they're talking about even if they do end up moving and can't actually calculate the full or close to the full picture monetarily. Now, not everyone needs a type of city that Chicago is. I work with a few people who grew up in Chicago or lived there for a long time and moved to Dallas recently. They don't seem to mind, but they soon find out that the property tax still sucks. But they could still make out better if they don't need a dynamic walkable city with everything a Chicago needs IF they own a car. If they don't own the car and require loan or lease payments, then it could end up pretty much being a wash between both areas.
Now with that being said, the people who complain about taxes but move to places like NYC, SF, LA, etc are pretty much ridiculous. They are attracted to the bigger paychecks without realizing the increase of income tax and housing. Not only is the COL more, but so too are the taxes such as income. When I moved from Chicago to NYC, my income tax went up by around 2.75X. With the new raise in Illinois tax, it's something like 2.1X. Still over double. My lifestyle is not that much different between both cities - actually I was more active in Chicago in everyday life and I think I enjoyed my life more just because the city was cleaner and I had access to a large, nice body of water everyday. Put it this way - my salary could be $35K lower in Chicago than here in NYC, and due to COL and income tax alone, I could still end up paying at least $500 per month in rent lower for a luxury apartment downtown in Chicago. My rent went up $1000/month after moving to Manhattan (compared to Chicago - I had a nice luxury unit with an amazing view downtown with a gym, doorman, etc) and I have no amenities other than an elevator and a few laundry machines in a dingy basement area. I would end up probably saving around the same amount of money per month but live in a nicer set up - and of course save even more per year. Put it this way - the difference of COL and income taxes are so great that if I made my New York salary in Chicago and lived in my previous apartment paying similar rent, I'd end up saving over $20,000 per year more in my pocket in Chicago than NYC.
It really depends on the situation, but the income tax in Illinois is moderate (not too high, but not too low), sales tax is high but most people overcompensate for how much it matters. If you are a $75K household, then 1.5% difference in income taxes is $1125 difference. If you spend $10,000 per year (i.e. 13% of your GROSS income) on things taxed at the highest rate, then 3% difference in sales tax is only $300 per year. Some people are literally so bad with money that they think that 3% extra in sales tax is actually worse off for them than the 1.5% difference of income tax, even though in this case the 1.5% income tax difference will save them 3.75X the amount that the 3% difference of sales tax would (probably more because $10K in this case is rather high).
With that being said, I think the real thing that is driving away some solidly middle class people is that the property tax is probably too high. Illinois is second highest in the nation (and first place New Jersey isn't that far above) - of course, even with rental housing, we don't feel it as much as other places. Places like NYC are much, much more expensive for housing even though the property taxes are much lower.