Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[dleung]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

The other groups didn't found the country though. They are mere immigrants who came later and had to assimilate into Franco or Anglo Canada.

Anyone who deserved credit for founding the country is long dead. It's not exactly something that gets passed down genetically like male pattern baldness

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by dleung

Anyone who deserved credit for founding the country is long dead. It's not exactly something that gets passed down genetically like male pattern baldness

Well if you get passed down the blame you can claim credit. I guess even if your family immigrated well after said events you take on both.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by dleung

Anyone who deserved credit for founding the country is long dead. It's not exactly something that gets passed down genetically like male pattern baldness

Perhaps not. "Credit" is not the right term but certainly people descended from those who created the country and society and are still living in it should have a legitimate say in its present and future direction, as opposed to being shoved aside and treated like annoying shitheads.

Though I suppose this clashes with one contemporary school of thought that considers all 8 billion people on the planet are potential "pre-Canadians" who already have quasi citizens' rights here.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Perhaps not. "Credit" is not the right term but certainly people descended from those who created the country and society and are still living in it should have a legitimate say in its present and future direction, as opposed to being shoved aside and treated like annoying shitheads.

Though I suppose this clashes with one contemporary school of thought that considers all 8 billion people on the planet are potential "pre-Canadians" who already have quasi citizens' rights here.

At the end of the day we are a democracy. Indigenous people get special rights but everyone else gets one vote. If we let in enough immigrants that they decide to re-shape the country in a different dirrection barring facism the old stock Canadians won't be able to stop that. In Quebec you know what you are afraid of losing which is mostly language. The rest of the country doesn't really know or agree so we won't know what we've lost until it's gone. The most insular and traditional folks in English Canada already feel like they've lost the country they grew up in. That is likely to spread and manifest itself in unpredictable ways.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Perhaps not. "Credit" is not the right term but certainly people descended from those who created the country and society and are still living in it should have a legitimate say in its present and future direction, as opposed to being shoved aside and treated like annoying shitheads.

Though I suppose this clashes with one contemporary school of thought that considers all 8 billion people on the planet are potential "pre-Canadians" who already have quasi citizens' rights here.

That seems like a false choice in a democratic society that espouses equality. Perhaps by "credit", some actually mean "privilege".

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

That seems like a false choice in a democratic society that espouses equality. Perhaps by "credit", some actually mean "privilege".

I ain't the one who used the word "credit".

That said, you do raise a good question about who gets afforded the democratic privilege, and how public policy affects the balances thereof.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I ain't the one who used the word "credit".

That said, you do raise a good question about who gets afforded the democratic privilege, and how public policy affects the balances thereof.

What does democratic privilege mean? Is there anyone floating anything besides citizenship being the determinant?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

What does democratic priveledge mean? Is there anyone floating anything besides citizenship being the determinant?

Well, citizenship and the associated right to vote is what I had in mind, as well as of course the significant increase in people entering the country and who will acquire that privilege in the coming years.

Though now that you mention it there is even a trend in western countries that is pushing for extending the right to vote to non-citizens.

So stay tuned, I guess.

[P'tit Renard]

Looks like QS has pissed off RN:

Deux députés solidaires appuient le NFP malgré les accusations d’ingérence
https://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/polit...p-malgre-les-accusations-d-ingerence.php

[hipster duck]

Am I reading this right? There is a candidate for "North America" for a metropolitan French coalition of left wing political parties?

So this person would sit in French parliament as the member for a continent-wide constituency of overseas French citizens?

I'm not saying they're better or worse, but the French and American electoral systems seem very byzantine and require very deep knowledge that the Westminster or other systems generally don't.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

Am I reading this right? There is a candidate for "North America" for a metropolitan French coalition of left wing political parties?

So this person would sit in French parliament as the member for a continent-wide constituency of overseas French citizens?

I'm not saying they're better or worse, but the French and American electoral systems seem very byzantine and require very deep knowledge that the Westminster or other systems generally don't.

Correct. There are a number seats reserved for French citizens living abroad, based on geographic regions.

There is also a cabinet position: Ministre pour les Français à l'étranger.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

Looks like QS has pissed off RN:

Deux députés solidaires appuient le NFP malgré les accusations d’ingérence
https://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/polit...p-malgre-les-accusations-d-ingerence.php

Whether or not this constitutes true foreign interference (ingérence) can be debated I suppose, but what I find noteworthy is that Sol Zanetti doesn't really seem to care if it is or not. His view is that the end justifies the means. Which I guess is par for the course in today's politics: all you have to do is call it a case of political force majeure and all of a sudden you don't need to follow the rules anymore.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

Am I reading this right? There is a candidate for "North America" for a metropolitan French coalition of left wing political parties?

So this person would sit in French parliament as the member for a continent-wide constituency of overseas French citizens?

Italy has a similar system as well for overseas constituencies.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

At the end of the day we are a democracy. Indigenous people get special rights but everyone else gets one vote. If we let in enough immigrants that they decide to re-shape the country in a different dirrection barring facism the old stock Canadians won't be able to stop that.

Québec secedes long before that scenario takes place.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

Looks like QS has pissed off RN:

Deux députés solidaires appuient le NFP malgré les accusations d’ingérence
https://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/polit...p-malgre-les-accusations-d-ingerence.php

Not surprising. These two (QS and NFP) are like Siamese twins. Of course the big difference is QS in Québec is just an innocuous party restricted mostly to the Montréal area, whereas NFP in France is much more dangerous, attracting much more people from all across France, and NFP is also much more violent than QS, with absolutely antisemite leaders as well as authoritarians ("I am the Republic!!" shouted its leader at a policeman who had come to search their headquarters in a criminal case) and violent people. Québec's society would NEVER tolerate the level of verbal and physical violence of the NFP.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Correct. There are a number seats reserved for French citizens living abroad, based on geographic regions.

There is also a cabinet position: Ministre pour les Français à l'étranger.

Plus a Québec embassy in Paris (and also a French embassy in Québec I presume?).

That's their embassy in Paris (no Canadian flag as you can notice) :

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Plus a Québec embassy in Paris (and also a French embassy in Québec I presume?).

Quebec has a pseudo-embassy called a Délégation Générale in Paris.

France's diplomacy has consulates at least in Montreal and Quebec City, though I am not familiar enough with them to say if they are a bigger deal than consulates France probably also has in Chicago or Monterrey, Mexico.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Quebec has a pseudo-embassy called a Délégation Générale in Paris.

The Délégations Générales du Québec network is quite big if I recall correctly, includes NYC, LA, London, Munich, Brussels, Mexico City and Tokyo.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Québec secedes long before that scenario takes place.

It's a dangerous assumption on the part of some that the populations currently in place will be totally powerless to alter any course of change of this type.

(And funny since it's framed with principles of "democracy"!)

French Canadians are still around 80+% of Quebec's population and even if that share drops they will remain the largest cohesive and united group in the province for many decades still.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

The Délégations Générales du Québec network is quite big if I recall correctly, includes NYC, LA, London, Munich, Brussels, Mexico City and Tokyo.

Correct, though I think they were scaled back in recent years (by the Charest or Couillard Liberals? ) and so they many not still have them in all these cities?

EDIT: current list

Bruxelles
Dakar
Londres
Los Angeles
Mexico
Munich
New York
Paris
Tokyo