Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 5

[stayinginformed]

Originally Posted by Orlando

It's interesting to hear these two different but very real perspectives about the impact from covid. The hospitality industry is suffering big time, yet housing prices are skyrocketing. Why is it that housing prices are still soaring? Is it because the boom in the tech industry there? Is it because we are seeing an influx of people moving from more expensive larger cities to Utah, and thus driving up home prices and demand? Do we have stats that can explain al of this? I know that Texas and Idaho are having large influxes of people from California that are driving up house prices in those two states. A friend of mine moved from Seattle in 2016 and was able to buy a simlar home in SLC in cash. He & his wife bought his house in Seattle in 2011 for 400k, and sold it for about 1 million in 2016, and then paid 400k in cash for a similar size and style house in SLC. Similarly, my sister and brother-in-law moved from San Diego to Utah in 2006 and bout a condo in cash just on the appreciated value of their condo that they had for about 4 years in San Diego.

I think it is people moving into the state, but there is also already a 50,000 housing unit gap. 50,000 fewer housing units than households in the state. Even with the current building boom we are barely biting at the edges of that 50,000 gap. Here is an article from the summer about the gap: https://www.sltrib.com/news/2020/07/...g-shortage-is/

[Orlando]

One thing I do think needs to happen, regardless of the current situation, is smart development for a variety of housing options. Some people say that density is no longer needed because you can remote in to work. That trend might be valid to some extent, but we still need to develop responsibly and develop close to existing infrastructure that is well-connected to a mix of uses and public transportation, etc. In other words, we still need to curb sprawl. You guys have heard my arguments before. It's environmentally unsustainable, requires greater irresponsible & pricier infrastructure per capita, destroys vibrancy of urban cores, an unhealthier population, creates greater isolation and disconnection, creates more pollution. The trend in Utah even before Covid was horendously developing in an un-smart & sprawlish fashion. We need to convince guys like Ryan from Qualtrix to develop smarter.

[ThePusherMan]

I hope he buys RSL and moves some operations to the city now that he has several interests here. Wouldn’t mind him bringing a Football, baseball, or hockey team here either. I’ve long thought the west side of the Gateway would be a great stadium location for a baseball or football stadium. Gateway could develop into a true entertainment district sandwiched between stadiums with Jazz on the east. Throw in Hatman’s proposal for Rio Grande, the West Quarter project, and the convention center hotel and west downtown would really be cooking with gas!

[Wasatch Wasteland]

Originally Posted by Marvland

If you think society, cities, urbanism etc aren't changed fundentaly and, in many ways, permanently, you've been watching a different movie than me. You sound like a guy whose only substantive change was that now you do your work in your pajamas with a beer in your hand.

1: Ok... so I never said that. 2: I’m just stating that patterns, human self actualization, and urban evolution are extraordinarily fluid 3: please don’t result to insults 4: I literally work on the ground in community, urban, and environmental planning 5: there is LITERALLY no such thing as a “permanent” change to a society or a city.

Adapt and evolve, don’t tear it all down just rebuild to the current whims and trends. Let’s discuss near term practical solutions while also considering long term implications and effects. These changes are not permanent, but that definitely doesn’t mean it’s going to go back to the way it was before. I’m so sick of people thinking so short term. It’s mind boggling how some people are incapable of looking beyond the next few years.

I understand you’re viewing this from a business perspective, which makes sense why you have a very darker view on this, but there are so many more facets and elements that constitute a community and what makes up urban planning, beyond the continual universal success of a certain industry or business model. It just isn’t the whole picture, it’s a fraction of it.

If you’re gonna dish it out then please, go to your bunker in the woods behind the last suburban Walmart while we try to adapt and evolve our existing cities and infrastructure to create a better, sustainable, and brighter future, thanks!

[scottharding]

Did you all learn nothing from 2020?

Nobody knows anything about the future. Not a clue.

The only thing we can reasonably predict is that 255 State Street will remain a hole for a couple more years until it's eventually developed into a single-story Walgreens.

[ThePusherMan]

Hey Wasatch Wasteland mind private messaging me your name so we can 86 you from all the surviving bars and restaurants in Salt Lake. Marv and I are talking about the decimation of our industry. How our friends have lost their livelihoods, and houses and all you can reply is why can’t people look beyond the next five years??? Disrespectfully, Go fuck yourself bud.

[Utah_Dave]

I think what’s driving the housing prices are low interest rates, high demand and less then usual inventory, relatively stable economy vs some larger states, definitely some out of state people but I really don’t know how much of an influx, and maybe a little bit of panic buying? By panic buying I mean people snapping things up thinking prices won’t come down. I definitely feel that tendency at the moment. I’m hoping for a soft landing as far as housing prices go. Maybe as things settle down and people are more comfortable listing their homes the increased inventory will help.

I do hope we are seeing a large influx of out of state folks. We could use that to some extent

I sure hope your industries come back soon if you have taken it on the chin recently. It’s too bad the money from the feds couldn’t have been used a little more effectively. I’m not a huge fan of giving away taxpayers money but solid businesses that have been established for a while are worth saving. Most folks don’t need the 2nd round of payments from the feds. A much more targeted approach could have really helped but I don’t want to open that can of worms. Anyway, I do feel for those who have been hammered both health wise and economically. Truly was a shit year. I would love to patron/support your businesses moving forward.

[Orlando]

Originally Posted by ThePusherMan

Hey Wasatch Wasteland mind private messaging me your name so we can 86 you from all the surviving bars and restaurants in Salt Lake. Marv and I are talking about the decimation of our industry. How our friends have lost their livelihoods, and houses and all you can reply is why can’t people look beyond the next five years??? Disrespectfully, Go fuck yourself bud.

Hey guys, obviously, this is very personal. Some of you have been hit very hard by this and have a much more negative outlook on the impacts of the pandemic. It's interesting hearing from your perspectives. I'm not in the industries that have been hit hardest from the pandemic, but I can relate because I was hit hard in the real estate downfall in the Great Recession of 2008. Regardless, let's not let this get into an ugly argument on here. Perhaps this should be moved to a separate thread.

[Atlas]

Looks like a certain former SLC mayor left a comment on the Rio Grande Plan BSL article:

Originally Posted by Ralph Becker

Exciting concept. Getting this area to function as part of downtown and connecting to neighborhoods has been a problem only exacerbated by the way Gateway developed. Some rethinking and rebuilding to put the rest of the pieces of downtown together and integrated in its transportation infrastructure would be a great boon for those living and doing business in the area. Good Luck!

Pretty cool!

[Marvland]

Originally Posted by thepusherman

i hope he buys rsl and moves some operations to the city now that he has several interests here. Wouldn’t mind him bringing a football, baseball, or hockey team here either. I’ve long thought the west side of the gateway would be a great stadium location for a baseball or football stadium. Gateway could develop into a true entertainment district sandwiched between stadiums with jazz on the east. Throw in hatman’s proposal for rio grande, the west quarter project, and the convention center hotel and west downtown would really be cooking with gas!

A baseball team at the Fairpark! Come on Ryan let's do this no whammies! I think Future had a park listed on the White ballfield on the south side of North Temple. I think that side would be an amazing mixed use site with structured parking on brownfields sites. Here is my oh so great Paint.net of Smiths ballpark (forensically accurate to the molecule) duct taped to the north parking lot at the Fairpark. Prefect. The pattern for ballparks lately has been MUCH smaller. Some of the new and proposed MLB parks are 25-35k instead of 60k.



Jazz ownership group is flush with cash. IPO for SAB's Quatrics wil be targeting $13 billion. Smith is not even the most wealthy person on the investment team. LET'S DO THIS! With the Fairpark public market plus the permanent retail aspects of that plan, plus the White Ballfield redevelopment possibilities, my heart is full of love. Fairpark's intent is to move all animal issues/aspects to around the rodeo arena, freeing up those stellar brick barns for some really amazing possibilities. Now if we could only delete that terrible industrial condo on the SE corner of that picture.

[Utah_Dave]

My concern with the fair park would be access and Traffic. Maybe the concern is unfounded, light rail nearby definitely helps.

[Utah_Dave]

Otherwise it is a perfect opportunity

[SLCLvr]

My oldest son lives in Grand Rapids, MI which I don't think of as a real estate hot spot but they are trying to buy a house, have bid over asking on two houses so far and have been outbid 30-40K each time. Just one isolated anecdote but I'm guessing these super low interest rates are distorting real estate prices across the county.

Also a little funny, not sure if that is the right word, if the people living in all these new apartment complexes that everyone hates, end up helping save a portion of the SLC food and beverage industry.

[Wasatch Wasteland]

Originally Posted by ThePusherMan

Hey Wasatch Wasteland mind private messaging me your name so we can 86 you from all the surviving bars and restaurants in Salt Lake. Marv and I are talking about the decimation of our industry. How our friends have lost their livelihoods, and houses and all you can reply is why can’t people look beyond the next five years??? Disrespectfully, Go fuck yourself bud.

Respectfully, I’d rather not.

No disrespect towards you or your industry, I recognize it’s been incredibly difficult.

I will repeat yet again, I am talking about urban theory as a whole, not a specific industry. All I’m saying is people are letting the collapse of a certain industry perpetuate the thought that this means the collapse of urban centers as we know it. People are letting extreme pessimism from that industry or a personal scenario dictate their perception on the long term sustainability and livability of cities. Again there’s just so many parts that make up this picture, restaurants are just one of them, and their collapse in the short term does not mean the end of the world for the city in the long term. Again, No disrespect towards you or your industry.

If you can’t understand what I’m trying to say in the past few posts, then that’s on me for not being clear. Regardless, I’m not trying to argue... I’m just saying that while it looks like the end for some people and industries right now, it’s absolutely not the end for cities. That’s all.

[bob rulz]

I don't think anybody is denying that this has been an incredibly difficult time for the hospitality industry and that it has taken an immeasurable toll. But I think Marvland's insistence that this is going to wreak long-term devastation on cities is simply false. It may not be later this year that urban living goes back to normal, but it also won't take anywhere close to decades. I'm also quite skeptical that this work from home revolution will stick around permanently. Yes, some people will keep working from home, but I think a lot of people will come back to work when they get the option. Not everybody wants to work from home, and most companies don't want people to work from home all the time.

I don't think anybody is trying to diminish the current real-time impact on your guys' industry. Every business that has gone under and will go under in the future because of Covid was an avoidable loss (avoidable because our government could have done so so so much more). But for the ones that can weather the storm, I think they'll see things get back to more or less normal much sooner than you guys think. Of course things might hurt overall because there are some good places that won't make it through (and already haven't), but that's a far cry from urban living being changed forever and taking decades to recover. Just because I think urban living will go back to normal in a couple of years doesn't mean that they won't take a massive hit in the process. But none of this is anywhere close to enough for me to want to actually leave the city for some soulless suburban area. I can't wait to get back to bars, to go to concerts and festivals and basketball games, to eat in at crowded local restaurants. People who liked to do those things before Covid will likely want to continue to do them after, and people who didn't get the chance, either because they came of age in 2020, or didn't have the income to go out before but might have it later, will jump at the chance to finally experience that life. Conventions and festivals will come back. Office workers will come back. Bands will start touring again. Theaters and orchestras will start performing again. More and more people will live downtown (at least in Salt Lake), and it's not going to take 10+ years for that to happen.

To be clear, I do not work from home. I in fact work in the heart of downtown in an industry where I can't work from home (but not hospitality). I don't really have much extra income to spend to patronize local businesses, but that was sadly also true before Covid.

This all could have been avoided if our government had done their job and actually paid people money consistently and helped out our local businesses during this time, but alas, our government doesn't give two fucks about the average working class person.

[Boz]

Originally Posted by ThePusherMan

Hey Wasatch Wasteland mind private messaging me your name so we can 86 you from all the surviving bars and restaurants in Salt Lake. Marv and I are talking about the decimation of our industry. How our friends have lost their livelihoods, and houses and all you can reply is why can’t people look beyond the next five years??? Disrespectfully, Go fuck yourself bud.

LMAO



What a shit post that is!

[Wasatch Wasteland]

Originally Posted by scottharding

Did you all learn nothing from 2020?

Nobody knows anything about the future. Not a clue.

The only thing we can reasonably predict is that 255 State Street will remain a hole for a couple more years until it's eventually developed into a single-story Walgreens.

The truest thing said on this forum in years.

[Orlando]

Do any of you have access to Bloomberg news? There is an article about 2nd tier cities on the rise. Let me know if any of you can access this.Thanks. https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/ar...the-superstars

[SLC PopPunk]

Originally Posted by Orlando

Do any of you have access to Bloomberg news? There is an article about 2nd tier cities on the rise. Let me know if any of you can access this.Thanks. https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/ar...the-superstars

I could only read the first little bit of the article before it asked me to login/sign up.

[Orlando]

Originally Posted by SLC PopPunk

I could only read the first little bit of the article before it asked me to login/sign up.

That's ok. I-215 sent me the article. It doesn't mention SLC in it. So, it's not exactly on-topic for this thread. Interesting read, though.