Highways in Canada

[Loco101]

I've driven in every province and can definitely say that Ontario has the highest highway safety standards.

Notice that all of those bad interchanges mentioned will soon be replaced within the next few years. The MTO has done a great job with its priorities to replace and upgrade. There used to be a lot more cloverleaf interchanges. I remember the crazy ones on Hwy 400.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Loco101

I've driven in every province and can definitely say that Ontario has the highest highway safety standards.

Perhaps in highway design but ON highways lack animal fencing in a lot of areas, no?

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Actually, in Orillia, ON, the loop-ramp from Highway 12 West to Highway 11 South is also fairly short. Then there’s 400 @ Canal Road, a RIRO on a 6-lane freeway. It’s bad news for everyone in lane 3 (from the left) when an 18-wheeler tries to get in: Its wide turning angle means that it goes straight into lane 3 (instead of the acceleration lane) at ~ 5 kph.

I believe Canal Road is supposed to be closed this summer when the north canal bridge replacement work begins and never re-open.

Ontario has freeway design standards that exceed most interstates, and increasingly has fewer and fewer old legacy interchanges. Even some of the municipal freeways like the Gardiner are getting upgrades to remove substandard interchange designs in the next decade. By the time 2030 rolls around there will be very few substandard interchanges left in the province. The only ones without real plans for replacement I can think of are on the DVP.


Eastern Canada generally builds a relatively consistant freeway network in a generally similar scale to the US, even if it is to differing standards in each province. In a few years you will be able to drive from Windsor to Halifax on high quality freeways though which is not different than the US. Quebec's design standards aren't exactly excellent but there are lots of US states like that as well.

It's the western provinces which have generally lower standards (although much higher speed limits!). Far more at grade intersections, etc. BC and Manitoba are probably the worst culprits, but even in Alberta the QE still has several at grade intersections, and Highway 1 running out of Calgary eastbound is full of stoplights and intersections.

[sonysnob]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Perhaps in highway design but ON highways lack animal fencing in a lot of areas, no?

Animal fencing is becoming pretty common in Ontario. Most of the 407 extension is fenced, as are many northern sections of Highway 11 and 69.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by sonysnob

Animal fencing is becoming pretty common in Ontario. Most of the 407 extension is fenced, as are many northern sections of Highway 11 and 69.

That's good. Was always thrown off coming from NB where most highways are fenced to ON where nearly none are.

I'm fairly certain Route 1 in NB from Saint John to the Maine border is the most over-designed highway in Canada annnnd we can take a wild guess at who it was built for.

[Dengler Avenue]

In a few years you will be able to drive from Windsor to Halifax on high quality freeways though which is not different than the US. Quebec's design standards aren't exactly excellent but there are lots of US states like that as well.

I don’t know if we can really consider A85 to be of high quality with a 7% downhill slope on what was possibly a new build. The SB approach to the new bridge over Rivière Verte, which should be completed soon, seems pretty steep too.

https://goo.gl/maps/YND7H81B6JNfkKb39

https://www.transports.gouv.qc.ca/fr/pro...ute-85/Pages/carrousel-autoroute-85.aspx

In the document for A85, MTQ caps the ascending grade at 5% (which is what I use for my amateur highway proposals if keeping it at 3% means too deep of a rock cut) and descending grades at 7(!)%.
(I downloaded the document 3 years ago so I wouldn’t know if it’s still online.)

It's the western provinces which have generally lower standards (although much higher speed limits!).

I notice the same thing in the states too. Wild West indeed.

I'm fairly certain Route 1 in NB from Saint John to the Maine border is the most over-designed highway in Canada annnnd we can take a wild guess at who it was built for.

So who?

[le calmar]

^ That’s the thing with Quebec highways. The new ones generally look good, when you start paying attention there are a lot of things that make you realize they don’t quite reach Ontario standards.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by JHikka

I'm fairly certain Route 1 in NB from Saint John to the Maine border is the most over-designed highway in Canada annnnd we can take a wild guess at who it was built for.

I would agree with that. The highway is truly stunning in it's quality, fully divided and grade separated with wide medians, long sweeping curves and no significant grades, but it's terminus is a sleepy border town of about 8,000 people (Saint Stephen).

It is Irving's "road to prosperity", designed to enhance traffic flow between Saint John and New England. Unfortunately, it terminates just across the border at a traffic circle on US-1, just north of Calais ME, and the only way to get to the interstate system is a 90 mile drive along the undulating and heavily forested "airline route" leading to Bangor ME. The Airline Route (Maine 9) is one of the most unpopulated and remote roads in the eastern US.

NB-1 from Saint John to Saint Stephen was a colossal waste of money, but is a wonderful road to drive on.

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by JHikka

That's good. Was always thrown off coming from NB where most highways are fenced to ON where nearly none are.

I'm fairly certain Route 1 in NB from Saint John to the Maine border is the most over-designed highway in Canada annnnd we can take a wild guess at who it was built for.

I just don't think it's as necessary in most of Ontario compared to NB. Deer populations are pretty low in most of Southern Ontario, which is the main safety issue, especially compared to NB, where it seems like they are absolutely friggen everywhere.

Northern Ontario has a higher density population of large mammals so it makes sense to have fencing. There just aren't a lot of wild animals trying to cross the freeways in Niagara or London.

I mean don't get me wrong fencing is useful everywhere, but it's definitely a greater need in NB than it is in Ontario.

I drove NB 1 south from Saint John once over the christmas break in the early morning (5-6amish). I passed a single vehicle on the hour long drive to Saint Stephen. In both directions. The thing is ridiculously overbuilt, it's almost hilarious.

[le calmar]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I would agree with that. The highway is truly stunning in it's quality, fully divided and grade separated with wide medians, long sweeping curves and no significant grades, but it's terminus is a sleepy border town of about 8,000 people (Saint Stephen).

It is Irving's "road to prosperity", designed to enhance traffic flow between Saint John and New England. Unfortunately, it terminates just across the border at a traffic circle on US-1, just north of Calais ME, and the only way to get to the interstate system is a 90 mile drive along the undulating and heavily forested "airline route" leading to Bangor ME. The Airline Route (Maine 9) is one of the most unpopulated and remote roads in the eastern US.

NB-1 from Saint John to Saint Stephen was a colossal waste of money, but is a wonderful road to drive on.

I wonder why the Americans didn’t bring I-95 to Saint Stephen instead of Houlton. It looks like it was meant to be its natural course, but they decided to bring it as far north as possible instead.

[Innsertnamehere]

politics most likely - probably a key senator or congressman was from Holton.

The highway would have been shorter (cheaper) and offered more direct trips to the large population centres in the Maritimes if it had been built to Calais instead, but wouldn't have hit the small towns along US-2 going north of Bangor.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by le calmar

I wonder why the Americans didn’t bring I-95 to Saint Stephen instead of Houlton. It looks like it was meant to be its natural course, but they decided to bring it as far north as possible instead.

The US interstate system was built partly for military needs (as was the autobahn in Germany after which it was modelled). I-95 took that hook northward for the military protection of northern Maine. Loring AFB in Presque Isle would have been close to the northern terminus of I-95.

[Dengler Avenue]

Also apparently AADT on I-95 north of Bangor is only 3K...
I agree that an interstate freeway towards Calais would have been more logical though from an economic standpoint.
Ps: I just checked the map. Lol Loring A.F.B.’s actually closer to N.B.-2 if anything.
Ps: Is N.B.-2 the only Canadian freeway that runs along the border for a substantial distance? (No, the undivided-4-lane portion of Crowsnest Highway in B.C. doesn’t count as a freeway lol.)

[esquire]

So why did NB build such a high-end highway to connect with a minor Maine route? Was it anticipated that there would be a branch of I-95 built to connect at Saint Stephen? Or was Maine expected to build a significant state highway in that direction?

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by esquire

So why did NB build such a high-end highway to connect with a minor Maine route?

Irving.

Originally Posted by esquire

Was it anticipated that there would be a branch of I-95 built to connect at Saint Stephen? Or was Maine expected to build a significant state highway in that direction?

Presumably it was believed that Maine would complete their end of the deal and similarly connect Calais to I-95, but alas...honestly surprising at this point that Irving hasn't lobbied Maine hard enough for this to be completed.

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

I agree that an interstate freeway towards Calais would have been more logical though from an economic standpoint.

When the Maine Turnpike was being extended from Augusta in the 50s the target was Millinocket as it was a large-ish forestry town at the time. Extending it northwards towards Houlton was for military purposes, as MonctonRad pointed out.

[sonysnob]

Speaking of New Brunswick... Am I the only person that thinks that the routings of Highways 8 and 11 should be reversed between Miramichi and Bathurst?

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by sonysnob

Speaking of New Brunswick... Am I the only person that thinks that the routings of Highways 8 and 11 should be reversed between Miramichi and Bathurst?

It is confusing and nonsensical, yes.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by esquire

So why did NB build such a high-end highway to connect with a minor Maine route? Was it anticipated that there would be a branch of I-95 built to connect at Saint Stephen? Or was Maine expected to build a significant state highway in that direction?

The question in reverse is why did Maine build I-95 to jog north from Bangor rather than head due east close to the US-1 alignment toward Calais? This would have been many decades ago.

EDIT: just saw jhikka’s post a few above mine

[Innsertnamehere]

Maine is currently trying to build a 2 lane extension of I-395 in Bangor for just 8km in order to connect to the Airline and it's hitting huge environmental pushback on just that 8km, 2 lane road.. I don't think a 140km extension of I-395 as a full freeway would work politically.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Maine is currently trying to build a 2 lane extension of I-395 in Bangor for just 8km in order to connect to the Airline and it's hitting huge environmental pushback on just that 8km, 2 lane road.. I don't think a 140km extension of I-395 as a full freeway would work politically.

That's too bad. Even a direct connection between the Airline and I-395 would make a huge difference to truckers, and the 395 has a nice interchange with I-95 too.

The Airline Route is actually pretty well maintained by the state of Maine at present. It has been significantly upgraded since I was younger, and many of the curves along the route have been smoothed out. It is now a decent road to travel on, but still quite lonely.