Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 5

[bob rulz]

Originally Posted by Marvland

I have issues with the URI as much as anybody, and I love to daydream about walkable cities and density etc, but our urban fairytale took a huge hit this year. There is a massive outflow from coastal cities already. Density/crowding, civil unrest, homelessness will be a trigger for a huge chunk of the population for years/decades. You think our homelessness problem is bad now? Wait a year. Cities blow right now guys. Culture, food, beverage art, all the things we live in the city for have collapsed. Not "are struggling" but have already collapsed. SLC will fair better than most, but this whole urbanism project just got a gut punch. Office and retail and social culture (the main reasons to live in a city) will take years of not decades to recover.

And all of this value judgement about SFR vs multifamily or dense living is just silly. I choose to live in a SFR near the core. I like to weld, work wood and need a place to out my trailer and boat. I would rather die than live in an apartment or condo. Up until about six months ago, I would also rather die than live more than 30 minutes away from our urban core. To say that has shifted in my mind is an understatement.

I think you are vastly overstating this.

The social aspect of urban living won't bounce back immediately, but to say that it could take decades to recover is absurd. And do you have any reasoning to say that it's "already collapsed"? I think most people are just waiting it out and hoping to come back when they can. Unfortunately yes, some places will not make it - and some have already not made it through. But we have yet to see a massive wave of bars and restaurants closing like people feared, and with the vaccine starting to roll out, I don't think we will.

For me personally I can't wait to be able to enjoy downtown living again, and I have absolutely zero desire to move away from downtown. I don't think this is going to trigger anything close to the urban decay of the 1960s which is what you're implying. I disagree that cities blow right now. They are less interesting right now, for sure, but they will come back. It's not like the suburbs have suddenly become more interesting in exchange.

[delts145]

Great updates DCRes, and some new angles! Thanks, much appreciated.

[RC14]

Thanks for the update DCRes.

[allh]

Yeah cities will bounce back very, very soon. It's kinda absurd to use recency bias and think the entire world wants to only live in the suburbs from now on. Young people still want to go out and meet people

[msbutah]

The 2nd south crane is to move utility equipment off the roof of the building on the SE corner (Lunt Capital).

[Atlas]

I really like the curved glass on 95 State. Cool to see the CCH finally go vertical too! Thanks for the photos.

[meman]

LIBERTY SKY UPDATE:


The tower crane is being raised today at Liberty SKY!!

[New_Future_Mayor]

Great photo updates thanks for those.

I know the majority of the RL proposal is just that a proposal, do we know if anything solid has actually been proposed, like the residential on the W. Temple side of the block.

Speaking of those blocks, has their been any announcement of when the Patrinely Groups west building is going to start construction?

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by allh

Yeah cities will bounce back very, very soon. It's kinda absurd to use recency bias and think the entire world wants to only live in the suburbs from now on. Young people still want to go out and meet people

Once the majority of people have the vaccine, you're going to see bars, restaurants and other public venues packed like you've never seen before. And it'll be quick.

[StevenF]

Originally Posted by Stenar

Once the majority of people have the vaccine, you're going to see bars, restaurants and other public venues packed like you've never seen before. And it'll be quick.

Intermountain just opened up 20,000 vaccines to all employees today. It will not be long before it goes out to the general population.

[SLCLvr]

Originally Posted by Stenar

Once the majority of people have the vaccine, you're going to see bars, restaurants and other public venues packed like you've never seen before. And it'll be quick.

I agree. You obviously have people who have been unemployed and barely hanging on the past year, but you also have people who have saved a ton of money working from home, not traveling, not eating out as much, who refinanced to a low low rate on their mortgage, etc. who can't wait to get out of the house and spend some cash on dining and entertainment. Probably dining first since you want to get together with friends and family. Sitting together with a couple hundred strangers in a movie theater may take a bit longer.

[airhero]

Originally Posted by Stenar

Once the majority of people have the vaccine, you're going to see bars, restaurants and other public venues packed like you've never seen before. And it'll be quick.

I've never consistently gone to bars in the first place but now I can't wait to go back.

Originally Posted by Marvland

I have issues with the URI as much as anybody, and I love to daydream about walkable cities and density etc, but our urban fairytale took a huge hit this year. There is a massive outflow from coastal cities already. Density/crowding, civil unrest, homelessness will be a trigger for a huge chunk of the population for years/decades. You think our homelessness problem is bad now? Wait a year. Cities blow right now guys. Culture, food, beverage art, all the things we live in the city for have collapsed. Not "are struggling" but have already collapsed. SLC will fair better than most, but this whole urbanism project just got a gut punch. Office and retail and social culture (the main reasons to live in a city) will take years of not decades to recover.

And all of this value judgement about SFR vs multifamily or dense living is just silly. I choose to live in a SFR near the core. I like to weld, work wood and need a place to out my trailer and boat. I would rather die than live in an apartment or condo. Up until about six months ago, I would also rather die than live more than 30 minutes away from our urban core. To say that has shifted in my mind is an understatement.

Sounds like you've already been a single family guy though.

I don't get the support for the idea that covid has made urban living less desirable. I would have been far more depressed and isolated living in the suburbs through all this than in the middle of sugar house in close proximity to a bunch of people. Suburban living has proven to be just as infectious as urban living. In fact I was perfectly happy where I was. Still walking to the grocery store with plenty of takeout options at my front door as well. It was easy.

I do, however, think demand for office space will take a hit. I work in an industry where working from home was unheard of, taboo really. Industry as a whole has responded very well to it and now my company wants some form of it instituted permanently so they can reduce the amount of office space they need.

Protests always happen in cities. Recent protests were more polarizing than normal. My direct personal experiences with the protests were overwhelmingly positive but that feeling definitely isn't universal and perceptions are important. Not sure if it will have a significant effect on the future of cities though.

Homelessness? I dunno. If it hadn't bothered you yet it probably won't bother you in the future.

That being said I am moving to the suburbs soon. But that was in motion before Covid. Not too far out. It's just too expensive to buy in the city guys and I want some financial freedom. You absolutely don't make up for the difference in cost in transportation savings. I don't know why that argument keeps getting pounded into us. You don't save 1000+ dollars per month in transportation costs moving to an urban area, even if you take the expenses of owning a car into account (most people I know living in SLC still own a car anyway).

[Boz]

People like to have space.

Front yard, back yard... a driveway.

Freedom from prying eyes.

Cities don't offer much of these things.

[New_Future_Mayor]

Originally Posted by Boz

People like to have space.

Front yard, back yard... a driveway.

Freedom from prying eyes.

Cities don't offer much of these things.

Some people like those things.

Some like restaurants, coffee shops, grocery stores, shopping, entertainment, parks, plazas and other things right out their front door.

[Orlando]

There was a YouTube video just posted today by someone driving around the latest developments. I think it was by WalkInSLC.

[wrendog]

Originally Posted by Orlando

There was a YouTube video just posted today by someone driving around the latest developments. I think it was by WalkInSLC.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3h0qqFuGds


Many, downtown so empty and quiet

[bob rulz]

Originally Posted by Boz

People like to have space.

Front yard, back yard... a driveway.

Freedom from prying eyes.

Cities don't offer much of these things.

I have plenty of freedom from prying eyes inside my apartment.

Maybe one day I will want a yard and a driveway, but I have no desire for those things yet. And even then, single-family homes do exist and will continue to exist in urbanized areas, although whether I'll ever actually be able to afford one is a different story.

[jedikermit]

Originally Posted by Boz

People like to have space.

Front yard, back yard... a driveway.

Freedom from prying eyes.

Cities don't offer much of these things.

Had all of those things for twenty years, was incredibly glad to leave behind the work and money involved in maintaining yards etc for a condo. My next move will be into downtown proper; I can't wait.

[Marvland]

Originally Posted by bob rulz

I think you are vastly overstating this.

The social aspect of urban living won't bounce back immediately, but to say that it could take decades to recover is absurd. And do you have any reasoning to say that it's "already collapsed"? I think most people are just waiting it out and hoping to come back when they can. Unfortunately yes, some places will not make it - and some have already not made it through. But we have yet to see a massive wave of bars and restaurants closing like people feared, and with the vaccine starting to roll out, I don't think we will.

Love your optimism. I hope you're right. But you're not. Coming from a very civically active a restaurant and bar owner who is really sick of press zoom interviews about the "challenges facing our industry". In Utah, $2.8 billion in lost revenue in an industry than runs on razor thin margins. 500 restaurants and bars in Utah gone forever thus far. 500 more on the brink. Almost all rural restaurants outside of heavy tourist zones effectively wiped out, nationally (read that again). Anybody still alive is living on the fumes of the April stimulus. All supporting F&B downtown (U of U, office, cultural events, theater, concerts) is gone. We are in the middle of that massive wave of closings right now. Some of them are my friends and my family. My enterprises have survived thus far but that could change in an instant. The weird thing is that we here in SLC are exceedingly lucky. We are open. Sorry to be frank, I love this forum, but some of you are straight up myopic. Cities will come back. They always do. But cities do blow right now. Good chunk of my family is in LA and San Fran. It blows. IMHO there are two types of urbanism: Urbanism from before March 2020 and Urbanism from after March 2020. We need to start really thinking about the 2nd one. Because reading some of this pablum is like reading arguments from a thousand years ago.

[Sight-Seer]

Many, downtown so empty and quiet

Good video, no shaking. Very professional looking. It's kind of spooky because there are no people in it.