Salt Lake Transit News Thread

[Paniolo Man]

UTA is moving forward with the previously discussed purchase of five BiLevel coaches from NCTD.

I feel bad for Coaster, having expansion plans scrapped and having to sell their equipment for pennies. At least we'll get some new rides on Frontrunner.

[Jbash]

I just wanted to talk about the RGP for a minute. This is a good talk don't worry haha. But anyways.....I've been seeing it everywhere. I'm seeing mention of it on Reddit, in the comments section of the Salt Lake Tribune and under Instagram posts from local influencers/personalities. I think some of the guys were on the Citycast Podcast. The fact that both Mendenhall and Cox are aware of the plan and its contents and seem to be in support of the idea at the very least. It's becoming common nomenclature in the local grapevines. With the possibility of receiving funding for a study in the near future, it's got me thinking. Have we ever seen a citizen led, developed and designed transit project of this scale anywhere before? Not just in Utah but America? I'm sure there's loads of examples of smaller scale improvements in towns across the country, but this isn't a small local improvement. The RGP will have not just a local but a regional impact on transit infrastructure, and each day that passes, it only gains legitimacy. Again, just got me wondering if there's other examples of something like this (by this I mean a community imagined project) in America?

[downtownslcresident]

Originally Posted by Makid

I agree. I have heard that there is a desire for another FrontLines project push. There are however a couple of things that are delaying this. The first is the announcement regarding the 2030/2034 Winter Olympics. The second is the Rio Grande Plan study.

The hope is that the Feds may step up and pay for the Rio Grande Plan or at least 80% of the plan with an Olympics announcement. This would then allow local funds to go for expansions/extensions.

Makid, this is massive news if it’s true. I’m wondering if you can provide any additional insight as to where you might be hearing these rumors or anything that might help lend some credence to what you’re saying? Not that I don’t believe you, I just want even more reason to get my hopes up!

[Makid]

Originally Posted by downtownslcresident

Makid, this is massive news if it’s true. I’m wondering if you can provide any additional insight as to where you might be hearing these rumors or anything that might help lend some credence to what you’re saying? Not that I don’t believe you, I just want even more reason to get my hopes up!

There are a few people in the State Legislature that I talk with on occasion regarding transit plans. I also have some contacts at UTA, and the WFRC.

I am not fully connected but I do know some people that are and they share some information, nearly always high level so as not to cause any issues if they overshare.

[Hatman]

Originally Posted by Makid

There are a few people in the State Legislature that I talk with on occasion regarding transit plans. I also have some contacts at UTA, and the WFRC.

I am not fully connected but I do know some people that are and they share some information, nearly always high level so as not to cause any issues if they overshare.

That is awesome!

The timing is weird, because the feasibility study won't be complete until nearly a year after the Olympics are announced. Hopefully that pause in progress won't kill the enthusiasm that has been building. But overall I agree, getting the federal government to pay for or even loan the money to Salt Lake City/State of Utah to get the Rio Grande Plan done is probably the quickest and easiest way the Rio Grande Plan moves forward. Obviously it isn't the only way, and if that doesn't work out, there are always other things we can do, like ballot measures.

[Hatman]

Originally Posted by Jbash

I just wanted to talk about the RGP for a minute. This is a good talk don't worry haha. But anyways.....I've been seeing it everywhere. I'm seeing mention of it on Reddit, in the comments section of the Salt Lake Tribune and under Instagram posts from local influencers/personalities. I think some of the guys were on the Citycast Podcast. The fact that both Mendenhall and Cox are aware of the plan and its contents and seem to be in support of the idea at the very least. It's becoming common nomenclature in the local grapevines. With the possibility of receiving funding for a study in the near future, it's got me thinking. Have we ever seen a citizen led, developed and designed transit project of this scale anywhere before? Not just in Utah but America? I'm sure there's loads of examples of smaller scale improvements in towns across the country, but this isn't a small local improvement. The RGP will have not just a local but a regional impact on transit infrastructure, and each day that passes, it only gains legitimacy. Again, just got me wondering if there's other examples of something like this (by this I mean a community imagined project) in America?

Just to be clear - the city did receive $1.97 million to conduct a high level study of how to best connect the east and west sides of the city. Not only was the Rio Grande Plan referenced in the grant application (I was invited to write a letter of support that was included in the application), but the award itself mentioned a 'Train Box' as a potential solution.
'Train Box' is a term that Cameron Blakey and I came up with to help sell the RGP to the general public, I don't believe that phrase has been used anywhere else. So the money is definitely going to be used to study the feasibility of the Rio Grande Plan.

As for other proposals lead by citizens - while I want to say we are unique, we are probably just the most visible activists in SLC at this moment. Things like the Roosevelt Subway line in Philadelphia start as citizens asking for something, then the agency comes in with a study of their own, and then the project enters the regular planning process. Barring some quick-fix like federal Olympic money, I think that is probably how things will go for the RGP - the study will suggest it is worth further study, at which point it will enter some long range plans and have more funding scheduled for it some years down the line. The regular steps will be taken, and eventually something will happen.

I am very happy you like the plan - and the more you and I and everyone else talks about it, the more people will know about it, and some of those will support it too. We're getting closer to building a critical mass of support where people who have expressed interest privately will be able to make more public statements about it. These are exciting times - a lot to look forward to, but also a great need for patience as the right pieces fall in place.

[Hatman]

I've been fixated on the Amtrak Long-Distance Fleet Replacement process for the last couple days, since it came out that Amtrak is looking to change ADA requirements in order to continue to use bilevel equipment on their routes.
Amtrak's Superliner cars are getting old and in low supply (too many derailments!), and the time has come for new ones. Most observers had thought that Amtrak would get a bunch of Venture cars for their long-distance trains, which are single level. The logic here is that ADA requirements would mean that the entire train would need to be accessible to persons in wheelchairs, so the stairs of the bilevel superliners wouldn't be allowed.
But now Amtrak is asking the FRA to change their definitions from requiring the entire train to be ADA accessible to making only certain cars accessible. That whole discussion can be found here:
https://accessibilityfeedback-amtrak.com/#form
Basically, Amtrak's proposal is to have an elevator in one car (a lounge car, probably?) and then have the middle section of the train semi-permanently coupled together so that wider ADA gangways could be used. That way, persons in wheel chairs could go between cars, such as from their seat or their bedroom over to the dining car. Bilevel dining cars are awesome. So many people can eat dinner at once, what with the kitchen entirely on the first level and all the food sent up and down via the little dumbwaiter elevators. Bilevel cars in general are just such an efficient way to move people, and an icon of American railroading over the last 40 years. We have such a generous loading gauge, why not use it? I'm very happy Amtrak is seeking these changes, and I wish them the best of luck.

This relates to Salt Lake City in 2 ways:

1) For the Rio Grande Plan, I really like the idea of having the Amtrak/intercity platform use two levels. The south end would ramp down like the FrontRunner platforms currently do to 8" above TOR so that any visiting train could stop at the depot, including bilevel cars. The north half would remain a high platform (51" above TOR) so that regional trains could have level boarding (assuming something like the Brightline or VIA Venture+Charger trainsets are used).
2)I think Stadler may be in a good position to build some of these cars. They already built Gold Leaf Cars for the Canadian Rocky Mountaineer, which are some of the tallest bilevel cars in the world, and can be run at up to 110 mph. Plus they have plenty of experience with semi permanent couplings and gangways with their KISS vehicles. It would be amazing if we had the new national standard long-distance cars being built here in Salt Lake City, where - when we wanted to build out our own state-funded rail service - we could just order some more of our own!

[Jbash]

No news, but I rode the S line for the first time today! Been on my bucket list for awhile so it was good to check it off haha

[Hatman]

The S-Line is pretty great for what it is. I wish it extended into downtown like a real TRAX line (to eliminate the forced transfer at Central Pointe), but at least it will be running every 15 minutes on Saturdays now.

[Hatman]

I usually wouldn't bother everyone with one of my amateur videos, but this is my first travel review, and I thought it might prompt an interesting discussion here:
• Video Link

Spoiler: I like trains 👍

[Paniolo Man]

For those of us sentimentally attached to the comets: 13 have made it safely to Kansas for storage. They will likely be restored by their new owner American Heritage Railways.

Yesterday I made a very familiar trek over to my very familiar 2nd hometown on a very unfamiliar mission. I had gotten word that the Abilene & Smoky Valley contracted to store 13 passenger cars for the Utah Transit Authority (UTA). And those cars were to be delivered by the BNSF earlier in the morning.

Indeed, they were. Running later than I had intended, I made it over to Abilene just after 10 AM. And a special A&SV train was already on its way over to Enterprise with 6 of the 13 HRMX passenger cars. They would be stashed just east of Enterprise’s main drag: Factory Street (aka KS hwy 43). I got into position and intercepted the train at the Jeep Rd crossing. It was then like a normal excursion chase over to Enterprise. The image below is my very first shot of the day. I’ll have a more ‘in depth’ report later on...

1. A&SV 4 is hauling 6 HRMX cars belonging to the Utah Transit Authority, approaching the Jeep Rd crossing. Providing an interesting contrast, the irrigation system and the Abilene, KS ‘skyline’ sure do clash with 6 modern commuter coaches.
Photo date: September 4, 2023.

Thanks for the heads-up!
Lance Garrels
santafe199

These cars aren't being stored for the Utah Transit Authority. UTA sold these cars at auction late last year. These cars were purchased by American Heritage Railways, parent company of the Durango and Silverton, and also the primary contractor of the Polar Express franchise.

I won't subvert the Trainorders.com paywall to show the picture, but it sure is wild to see our dear Comet Cars so far from home.

[Atlas]

Has there been any movement on the short S-Line extension to Highland? Wasn't there some money allocated to that by the legislature awhile back?

[rockies]

TikTok my friend sent me of completely full red line trax trains - looks like rush hour in Seoul lol

https://www.tiktok.com/@hotcheetoblu...81507396848939

[Paniolo Man]

I've been bored and UTA has been making progress on the proposed 2024 budget and dropping some hints along the way.

As has been mentioned here before UTA, has received a federal grant to the tune of $60 Million to replace half of their original SD Unit fleet. In their 2024 budget UTA is proposing $10 Million to the same SD Unit replacement.



Given the calculated cost of $3 Million per LRV the feds have calculated, the total amount of units initially funded for replacement is 23 (with UTA's $10mil). It's a pretty specific number. There are two generations of SD units in UTA's fleet: SD100 and SD160. Between the two there are 40 units: 23 SD100 and 17 SD160 units. The SD100s are between 3 and 5 years older, it makes sense that UTA is initially securing funding to replace them specifically. I'd bet they ask the legislature or apply for a grant to replace the remaining SD160 units before they take delivery of any new units. I'd hope that by the time an order is placed UTA orders additional units to support an Airport to UofU line.

I'm sure plenty of the people who view this thread already know the difference between an SD100 and SD160, but in case anyone here doesn't here is a photo comparison:

SD100: Has folding doors, some units have been repainted to match newer S70 units.



SD160: Pop out sliding doors, newer AC traction system.


These units still have plenty of life left in them, I wonder if they will be sold to Denver or Sacramento.

Other little notes from the budget:

UTA is planning to have Siemens repair 2 accident-damaged S70s. One of which was involved in a serious derailment in 2018 pictured below. (Photo: KSL)

Side note: To my knowledge the worst LRV repair UTA has had to have Siemens do at their factory was the vehicle involved in the 2016 North Temple derailment, that unit was remanufactured and put back in service on the S-line.

UTA is continuing the Frontrunner locomotive midlife overhaul. Once complete UTA locomotives will meet EPA Tier 1 or Tier 2 emissions standards. UTA's MP36 locomotives may only be 11-16 years old, but several components like the trucks and engine blocks are refurbished from much older locomotives.

UTA is anticipating delivery of the used Coaster BiLevel cars this year which will enable them to begin a midlife overhaul of their own BiLevel cars.

The UTA customer service center located in the old Rio Grande freight hub building at SL Central (not to be confused with the Passenger Depot, subject of the Rio Grande Plan) will be closing on October 2nd. Customer Service will now be located at UTA Meadowbrook. This is the last use of the building, Greyhound has already vacated and water has been shut off. The historic building will likely be torn down in the very immediate future.

[Paniolo Man]

Business must be booming for Stadler, They seem to be storing Caltrain carbodies several miles from their factory at Mountain Crane on 2300 West. I'm anxiously awaiting news from them on their expansion. IIRC the deadline for their expansion is 2029 and they need to almost triple their footprint to keep their cushy tax break. Of course that may have changed in the last few years, but I haven't heard anything. Furthermore, the piece of LDS Church owned land immediately north of their factory has a big for sale sign on it, I was under the impression UIPA was going to help Stadler purchase that lot for a much needed test track.



To keep this more relevant to the Salt Lake aspect of this thread I'll also add that several Stadler employees I talked to at their open house hinted that they plan to make a real effort to win the UTA SD unit replacement contract. Siemens will give them a run for their money considering every new LRV UTA has every bought came from them.

[Hatman]

Thanks Paniolo Man! Both are very interesting posts! I hope UTA keeps a few old SD LRT vehicles. A few heavy rail systems keep a few 'museum trainsets' to run during Christmas and other special occasions. The sounds and smells of the old SD units are so unique, and can unlock a lot of memories....

A Stadler competitor to the S70 would be intriguing! No better place to debut in North America than here in Stadler's home town!

And here's to hoping that Frontrunner will get Stadler Multiple Units someday to replace the old diesels!
https://twitter.com/devinzander/stat...c8bltkStw&s=19

[Paniolo Man]

UTA agenda item for a board meeting later this month:

On December 21, 2022 the Board of Trustees approved the 2023-27 Capital Plan and the 2023 Capital Budget. UTA staff are proposing the addition of one new project to the 2023 Capital Budget (as also presented in Resolution AR2023-09-01 supporting the amendment to the 2023-27 Capital Plan). This budget amendment would add appropriation authority and the new project in 2023 for the project described below.

UTA and Kennecott Land entered an Interlocal Agreement (ILA) on May 13, 2008. This agreement facilitated the construction of the Mid-Jordan Light Rail Line. The agreement granted UTA an easement to build and operate the Mid-Jordan Light Rail Line through Kennecott Land at Daybreak. The ILA contemplated a future third station in Daybreak at approximately 11000 South without assigning responsibility to either party for the design or construction of the station. With the recent plans to construct the new stadium, Larry H Miller Real Estate (LHMRE) has now committed to assume the financial responsibility and will reimburse UTA for the costs of design and construction of the station.

The Authority is seeking an amendment to the 2023 Capital Budget to accommodate this proposed new capital project. Board of Trustee Policy Number 2.1 Financial Management, allows the Board of Trustees to amend or supplement the budget at any time after its adoption and we are seeking the Local Advisory Councils advice on the proposed Budget Amendment.

[Paniolo Man]

Reddit people beat me to it.





















I'll always be opposed to new Frontrunner infill stations, including "tHe PoInT".

[Hatman]

This Friday, October 20th, I will be presenting the Rio Grande Plan to the High Speed Rail Alliance via their regular webinar series!
You are welcome to watch here:
https://www.hsrail.org/events/the-ri...-improvements/

[Paniolo Man]

They believe Increased frequency will offset the need to return to 4 car trains.

Thank you for reaching out to the UTA Board of Trustees with your inquiry on FrontRunner vehicles and platform adjustments. Our plans for FrontRunner have changed in the time since the Comet cars were retired. UTA is currently working with the Utah Department of Transportation (UDOT) on the FrontRunner Forward program. Upgrades from this program include adding double track on the FrontRunner alignment so trains can run more often. New trains purchased with the FrontRunner Forward program will be used to provide 15-minute service during peak hours. Travel demand will be managed through the increased frequency and UTA will not need to raise platforms or add longer trains.



We appreciate your interest in our future service plans and thank you for your support of public transportation.