LOS ANGELES | Downtown Project Rundown 4.0

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by inSaeculaSaeculorum

At what point do you stop accepting bad design simply because it fills in dead zones? Is there a certain point where you will say "Phew, that's all done now, LA is finally a 'complete' city so NOW I can start complaining about design flaws!"

insacecula, bad design is like design in general. It's all a matter of personal taste. So what you might like, I might hate, and what I might hate, you might like. now, of course, I'm talking about design that fits within reasonable boundaries, & not where some new proj is designed in such a bad way that even a blind person would cringe.

as for ppl with bad eyesight, even they'll notice the full context of dtla....& its glaring weak points....& therefore judge new things, or things in general, within those boundaries. so the average person won't drop by dt & say "yeech, that new bldg is too short & its design isn't slick enough!!...no wonder more ppl don't care for dtla!"

What is always the same though is that dead zones and surface lots make LA ugly. I mean, DUH that is obvious! So you can stop starting (literally) every single post saying the same thing. We don't need it mentioned on every page.

by the same token, we don't need it mentioned on every page that some new proj doesn't fit a forumer's idea of great design, or is disappointing in some other way to him or her. I don't think there has been even one proj....or very few projs....in all the yrs I've been posting to this forum where at least one or more ppl will not complain about some aspect of a new proposal or new devlpt.

I try to see dt through the eyes of the typical person...or ppl who've I've visited dt with through the yrs....& I suspect that most ppl don't judge the hood the way that, as you call them, hobbyists do. IOW, they're gonna notice what you say I criticize regularly way more than the things that bother the hobbyists....or what I might label the 'fanboys'....or 'fangirls'.

btw, I personally favor postings to this thread that are like what brudy just wrote about...regarding the new apt proj at 2nd & san pedro st.....over the very generalized posts about urban design concepts, which could easily slot into any of the dozens of city forums here at ssp.com.

[Just-In-Cali]

I must say, I am disappointed in the courthouse. It does seem like they went with the lowest common denominator. Sadly, its the Feds that control that design from what I heard. And they seem to wanna value engineer everything these days.

Personal note,
Discussion is good, critique is good. Even differing opinions are good. But when your posts literally turn into a copy and paste of every other post you have ever written, almost exclusively negative and complaining about the exact same issue over and over again, even though everyone knows where you stand, that's not discussion, that's trolling.
A number of posters are guilty of this, just read back through their posts to find the common theme. Be it parking lots, power lines, homeless, stucco, brown people, LA as a whole...etc. If you don't like something, fine, state it...then move on.
This constant hijacking of the thread is making it a miserable place.

[alki]

Originally Posted by Muji

Pictures by Kat Odell for Eater LA

Wow. Very nice. What bldg is it in?

[LAofAnaheim]

Originally Posted by HunterK

Done it all, many, MANY, times. But I've also been to other cities (which I'm not allowed to name).

I will admit Angels Flight is something other cities don't have, and I quite like it.

Right. So never say "never". To each city, is its own and LA has a ton going for it that no other cites have. The Entertainment Capital of the World (any other city would love that title) and the home of the largest car-free festival in the world with cicLAvia.

[Muji]

Originally Posted by alki

Wow. Very nice. What bldg is it in?

This one: http://www.you-are-here.com/downtown/spring_street.html

[Illithid Dude]

I gotta say though, DTLA has better retail and restaurants then most other major downtowns in the USA. Even if something like downtown Oklahoma City or Houston is getting some huge, glassy office building (which they are), DTLA is still an overall nicer, livelier place to be.

Oh, and don't forget that the Wilshire Grand is actually under construction. Supertalls don't grow on trees.

[Mojeda101]

Probably going to Downtown tomorrow for an update. A BIG one. I need a list of sites besides the obvious to visit:

Courtyard Marriott
8th and Hope
8th and Grand
9th and Olive
Broad/Parcel Tower
1340 Fig
Olympic/Hill
Ava
Jia

Any redevelopment sites that you want an update on?

[Quixote]

Originally Posted by Mojeda101

Probably going to Downtown tomorrow for an update. A BIG one. I need a list of sites besides the obvious to visit:

Courtyard Marriott
8th and Hope
8th and Grand
9th and Olive
Broad/Parcel Tower
1340 Fig
Olympic/Hill
Ava
Jia

Any redevelopment sites that you want an update on?

Off the top of my head:

One Santa Fe
Federal courthouse site
United Artists/Ace Hotel
Hotel Clark
Trinity Auditorium
Clifton's Cafeteria

[Quixote]

Nevermind on Clifton's. Here's what it looked like a little over 2 weeks ago (no significant progress):


http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

[Illithid Dude]

I'd say still do Cliftons. Two weeks is enough time for something to happen.

[Mojeda101]

Originally Posted by Quixote

Off the top of my head:

One Santa Fe
Federal courthouse site
United Artists/Ace Hotel
Hotel Clark
Trinity Auditorium
Clifton's Cafeteria

I'm not a fan of One Santa Fe, but I'll definitely do my best to do the others.

[Eightball]

Originally Posted by LAofAnaheim

More reason to go Metro and support continued expansion of Metro rail!

Carrots and sticks.

And yes, that's a beautiful restaurant.

[brudy]

The best chance to see any progress at the Hotel Clark is at night. They've got the interior lights on so you can see the lobby and some of the other street-level spaces. A lot of the lighting fixtures are pretty cool. There aren't a lot of other finishings yet, but they're edging closer. The exterior hasn't changed in weeks. I still can't think of what was the point of painting those bars.

I'd also say skip Cliftons. Not much has been happening recently. There is stuff to see at the 2nd St Little Tokyo project and the Broad and Related tower are looking great together.

In other news, they've started working on the Walgreens buildout on 5th St in the Chester Williams building. Let's hope they don't end up with an truck in there like the other two convenience stores on that corner.

In even smaller news, the new gelato place has opened up in Grand Central Market near the new coffee spot. GCM really needs later hours at this point.

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by Just-In-Cali

A number of posters are guilty of this, just read back through their posts to find the common theme. Be it parking lots, power lines, homeless, stucco, brown people, LA as a whole...etc. If you don't like something, fine, state it...then move on.

that's an interesting list of issues cuz some of them fall within the public domain, some of them don't. iow, some of them are under the watchful eye of local govt &, in turn, the ppl that you or I vote into office. So some of those issues can be affected by the opinions of ppl in a community, but some of them aren't. Or some of them, such as the issue of homelessness, is at the mercy of larger forces, beyond the control of even a vocal majority due to the influence of a vocal minority, or factors like LA's weather.

If many ppl like to be armchair architects, then their interests will have a similar level of influence if the city sets up a huge array of local design review boards. I know that the 2 apt bldgs that GH palmer wants to build on broadway fall under some of that, although I'm not sure how much power that ppl's personal tastes have on what he or similar devlprs will or will not do.

as for stucco, I was on broadway a few wks ago & the west facing wall of the new Jia apt bldg fronting Hill St looks rather cuz the gravely look of that material combined with the bldg's overly plain design....at least as seen on its west facing side....doesn't exactly look like it will win any awards. But the repainted Clark hotel is what really made me feel uneasy, since it currently looks like an overly plain, simple paint job. It made me think of what a low budget homeowner will do when they take a nice old clapboard house, resurface it with stucco, & then lay a quick layer of paint over it. Owners of properties like the clark hotel are what forumers should be really nervous about, far more than worrying about owners who are investing in new projs that might be too short, or lack retail on the first floor, or have too much enclosed parking, or what not.

I'm glad a newer pic of Clifton's has been posted, cuz I would have thought a bit more work would have been done on it by now. So if I had gone out of my way to see it recently, I would have felt quite .

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by Mojeda101

Any redevelopment sites that you want an update on?

just know that I appreciate the effort that you & a few other forumers put into visually tracking the changes to dtla. This is something possible only cuz of the invention of the internet....I remember being totally in the dark about various changes to the hood before the age of the personal computer.

[SimonLA]

Originally Posted by Mojeda101

Probably going to Downtown tomorrow for an update. A BIG one. I need a list of sites besides the obvious to visit:

Courtyard Marriott
8th and Hope
8th and Grand
9th and Olive
Broad/Parcel Tower
1340 Fig
Olympic/Hill
Ava
Jia

Any redevelopment sites that you want an update on?

Don't forget Avant (Fig/Flower development)!

[ziggy331]

Originally Posted by SimonLA

Don't forget Avant (Fig/Flower development)!

That's 1340 Fig- he's got it covered!

Here is a quick snap of the Courtyard this morning:

[Wilcal]

Originally Posted by ThreeHundred

I'm still miffed at what were're getting...


http://ad009cdnb.archdaily.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/1355334158-lacourthouse4.jpeg

...as opposed to what we could've had.


http://cdn.cstatic.net/images/gridfs/50d2707df92ea14d00026ce6/LA-Courthouse_for-press-3.jpg

DTLA never gets anything nice. Crying shame.

My understanding was that the GAO chose the lesser design so as not to antagonize a very conservative politician from the central valley who sits on an important government committee and is very budget minded. Of course the final decision could have been made because of typical government "bureaucratic blandness." Either way, I'm with you and your disappointment. I'm hoping that the facade of the SOM design my be the building's salvation. From the renderings it looks like it will be square cube, about 220 feet in height, and a facade with a pale whitish/blue transparent glass that is in an articulated pattern. On a clear spring day with intense sunlight--it could be stunning.

[202_Cyclist]

Wilcal:

My understanding was that the GAO chose the lesser design so as not to antagonize a very conservative politician from the central valley who sits on an important government committee and is very budget minded. Of course the final decision could have been made because of typical government "bureaucratic blandness." Either way, I'm with you and your disappointment. I'm hoping that the facade of the SOM design my be the building's salvation. From the renderings it looks like it will be square cube, about 220 feet in height, and a facade with a pale whitish/blue transparent glass that is in an articulated pattern. On a clear spring day with intense sunlight--it could be stunning.

This is sort of correct. The Government Accountability Office (GAO) audits government programs and agencies and offers advice and recommendations but it is the General Service Administration (GSA) that makes decisions about govt properties.

Jeff Denham is the conservative Republican that you are referring to. He is on the House Transportation & Infrastructure Committee. He also wants to make significant cuts to Amtrak funding and he is also the #1 enemy of CA high speed rail.

House vote threatens new L.A. federal courthouse operations

"Still, the vote signaled Central Valley Republican Rep. Jeff Denham's determination to scuttle a $400-million project he considers unnecessary.

Denham, of Turlock, has sought to sell the vacant courthouse site to help reduce the federal budget deficit.

"This country is $15 trillion in debt, and [the General Services Administration] continues to waste millions of dollars on a project no one needs," he said..."

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/may/10/nation/la-na-new-downtown-courthouse-20120510

[Mojeda101]

Update delayed until tomorrow. Sorry everyone. Tomorrow for sure!