YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[casper]

Originally Posted by moosejaw

Got delayed on Alaska airlines flight from Mia to Sea
Lady had a seizure on the plane
Had to stop off at Jax (Jacksonville)
Alaska had no maintainence crew at Jax to clear for takeoff o they had to hire American Airlines to clear them for takeoff. Well American Airlines maintainence crew found a lot of things that they wanted fixed. All of sudden a one-two hour delay turned into four five hours
Then eight hours passed. I'm doing the math in my head. I know Mia-Sea is a six hour flight
I know pilots can only fly a limited amount of hours. So I figured were not going home tonight (Xmas eve btw)

Anyways they break the news to the flight and Alaska Airlines (keep in mind they are not that big of an airline) offers to put us up for the night and pays for dinner at the local Bennigans outside the hotel. We were on our way the next day and they had representatives put us on connecting flights. Usually I'm picked up in Seattle but managed to score a connecting flight to YVR

What Alaska did is pretty common with all the legacy airlines.

In the case of Air Canada, this is the procedure they follow:
-https://www.aircanada.com/en/agents_na/reference/documents/Irregular_Operations.pdf

The one thing that should be fixed in Canada is the fact Air Canada and WestJet do not interline. Virtually every legacy airlines interlines with every other. That makes it much easier to deal with these types of problems.

[Johnny Aussie]

Who was saying they wanted more transcon 777 action?

Next week certain days from YVR-YYZ and vv have plenty of 777 and 787 flights.

Friday for example YYZ-YVR has 5 77Ws, 2 77Ls and 2 788s scheduled. Also 3 321s for those who prefer single aisles 😁

[deasine]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Who was saying they wanted more transcon 777 action?

Next week certain days from YVR-YYZ and vv have plenty of 777 and 787 flights.

Friday for example YYZ-YVR has 5 77Ws, 2 77Ls and 2 788s scheduled. Also 3 321s for those who prefer single aisles 😁

Soon enough our YVR-YYZs will be consistency like the SYD-PER transcontinental flights, international hard product on a domestic route

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Who was saying they wanted more transcon 777 action?

Next week certain days from YVR-YYZ and vv have plenty of 777 and 787 flights.

Friday for example YYZ-YVR has 5 77Ws, 2 77Ls and 2 788s scheduled. Also 3 321s for those who prefer single aisles 😁

Its funny we've gone from the recession having AC doing A319 transcons (maybe even the E90 at one point?) to this, good to see!

[Klazu]

I think I was asking this already earlier, but are there many other trans-continental routes with many wide bodies? I suppose between New York and west coast there are many flights, but I think a vast majority is still narrow-body 737s etc.

[Black Box]

Originally Posted by Hot Rod

SEA already is a 2ndary Overseas gateway. Also, the airline numbers (per Alliance) in the chart for SeaTac are incorrect.

Also of interest is when you look at Intercontinental per destination:

SEA:

Asia
Beijing (Delta, Hainan)
Dubai (Eremites)*
Hong Kong (Delta)
Seoul (Asiana*, Delta, Korean)
Shanghai (Delta, Hainan)
Taipei (EVA)
Tokyo-Narita (ANA, Delta)


Europe
Amsterdam (Delta)
Frankfurt (Condor, Lufthansa)
London (British, Delta)
Paris (Delta)
Reykjavik (Iceland)

VANCOUVER:

Asia
Beijing (Air Canada, Air China**)
Chengdu (Sichuan**)**
Chongqing (Tianjin Airlines**)**
Guangzhou (China Southern**)**
Hong Kong (Air Canada, Cathay Pacific**)
Huangzhou (Beijing Capital Airlines**)**
Kunming (China Eastern**)**
Manila (Philippine**)**
Osaka (Air Canada)**
Qingdao (Beijing Capital Airlines**)**
Seoul (Air Canada, Korean)
Shanghai (Air Canada, China Eastern**)
Shenyang (Sichuan**)**
Taipei (China Airlines**, EVA)
Tianjin (Hainan, Tianjin**)**
Tokyo (-Haneda [ANA]**, -Narita [Air Canada, Japan Airlines**])
Xiamen (Xiamen Airlines**)**


Australasia
Auckland (Air New Zealand**)**
Brisbane (Air Canada)**
Sydney (Air Canada, Qantas**)**

Europe
Amsterdam (KLM**)
Dublin (Air Canada)**
Frankfurt (Condor, Lufthansa, )
Glasgow (Air Transat**)**
London (-Gatwick [Air Transat**, WestJet]**, -Heathrow [Air Canada, British Airways])
Manchester (Air Transat**)**
Munich (Lufthansa)**
Paris (Air France**, Air Transat**)
Reykjavik (Iceland)
Rome (Air Transat**)**
Zurich (Edelweiss**)**

Exclusives:

SEATTLE (CITY* 1-Dubai) [AIRLINE* 2-Asiana, Emirates]

VANCOUVER (CITY** [ASIA/PAC 14], [EU 6] ) (AIRLINE** [ASIA/PAC 11], [EU 4]) (AIRPORT** 2-Haneda, Gatwick)

Seattle-Tacoma serves one city (Dubai) that Vancouver doesn't and has two airlines (Asiana, Emirates) that Vancouver doesn't [although, I think Asiana is coming].

Vancouver serves 14 Asia Pacific cities and 6 EU cities, and 2 airports (Haneda, Gatwick) that Seattle doesn't. Vancouver has 11 Asia Pacific airlines and 4 EU airlines that Seattle doesn't.

Clearly, Vancouver is the largest Intercontinental Market in the Pacific Northwest, by far. I didn't include Mexico City in my analysis because it is on North America continent; but if you did count then Vancouver would win with one city served on two airlines.

Now let's look at TRUE International: Seattle serves Toronto, Calgary, Edmonton, Vancouver (all cities which Vancouver serves). Vancouver serves (LA, SF, LAS, SAN, IAD, ORD, DFW, IAH, SBF**, JFK**, EWR**, HNL, Maui, SLC, ATL, DTW, MSP, PHX, PDX, ANC, MEX**). Although Seattle serves many MORE cities within the US Domestic, Vancouver is the bigger Transborder route airport (including many cities** Seattle does not serve) and therefore when you consider all International - Vancouver is by far the biggest.

Very interesting - now if YVR had a hub and a mini-hub with Domestic routing like SEA does with Alaska and Delta, then YVR's true impact could be seen. YVR DOES have a hub in Air Canada and a mini-hub in WestJet, but Canada Domestic just doesn't have as many routes as US Domestic; even considering SEA's relative low level service Domestic (mostly on AS and mostly on West Coast). This can be seen by the Vancouver Domestic 10M vs SEA Domestic of 30M+ for 2015. Even if you consider both cities likely double count at least half of the Domestic (due to connections), SEA would still be ahead with around 10-15M O/D and YVR around 6M O/D. Vancouver can't change its Domestic Canada so it is probably stuck under 15M pax per year even with growth from WJ. But Vancouver can add more Intercontinental (Asia, Pacific, ME, and SA) to perhaps double that figure to around 10M and Transborder/North America to 10M, giving YVR around 35M pax per year as a ceiling.

Another interesting point is Vancouver's Europe offering. I always assumed Seattle was bigger or the same size, I had no idea YVR leaves SEA in the dust there too. YVR isn't just Asia and Pacific, it is EU as well (and I hope it continues to grow - Copenhagen, Oslo, Barcelona, Lisbon, Prague, Istambul, Moscow, maybe Warsaw - all come to mind).

True true that YVR blows Seattle away with international flights, but we're not doing too bad down here. Cheers!

[Klazu]

Why does Asiana not fly in Vancouver? I am sure Seoul as one of the largest megacities on Earth can support three airlines like Tokyo does. They are supposed to be a great 5* airline and it would be wonderful to have the option to fly with them.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Black Box

True true that YVR blows Seattle away with international flights, but we're not doing too bad down here. Cheers!

Seattles US domestic coverage does tend to be in the west, as noted, but all major cities are served nonstop. And you have Emirates, which was not allowed, or did not want, YVR.
(Rather a messy deal, as I recall.)

[Alpine]

Does anyone know why YVR-MENASA fares are getting so pricey these days? I'll copy part of the post I made on Flyertalk about this:

The YVR-DEL corridor (I personally call it the "Indo-Canadian Corridor") used to be served by many different airlines; chief among them was CX, LH and the *A route (AC854 to LHR and AI116 to DEL). MU, CZ, CA, CI, BA and JL have also competed on this route, based on anecdotes I've heard from other people about how many Indians are flying on CA992, CI31 and JL17. As well as EK230 back when the loonie was strong.

However, as of now (March 2016), using the ITA matrix as a source, I've noticed that China Southern has far and away the lowest fares to India. CX fares to DEL are $1600 as well. In fact, CZ fares are $400 cheaper than the other carriers! I know that CX838 and CX889 don't match up well with CX695, but something tells me CX no longer wants to compete with CZ on YVR-DEL traffic. However,

As for Vancouver-Dubai fares, various permutations of *A and interline flights (usually connecting through YYZ or LHR; including AC or BA for the first leg and AC, BA or EK for the second) are just under $1000, with LH fares around $1100. However, some airlines which had cheap fares now have exorbitant ones! For example, BA fares to DXB are now $1500-1600, when they used to be $950, an almost 60% increase!

I tried various dates in the low season (June-September) and high season (November-January) for both destinations, with no real change in overall prices.

What's up with YVR fares to MENASA? Why are they so pricey? YVR-ADD is $1800, YVR-ISB is $1500...I know they're very long flights, but something tells me that this shouldn't be, especially with oil not at $100/bbl anymore.

Also, re: EK's service in SEA. I've been told on Airliners.net that if EK was in YVR, it would cannibalize the rich variety of routes that it currently has. My guess is, not only would AC be at risk (although that is probably a reason why there's no EK flights to YVR), but such a route would also eat through BA and Lufthansa's TATL hub traffic, not to mention KLM and Air France!

Also on A.net, I've heard that EK's current current 2x daily 77W SEA-DXB service cost Sea-Tac a few airlines and routes. The weakening loonie and AC's new YYZ-DEL/YYZ-DXB routes suddenly means EK isn't getting as much YVR-MENASA traffic as in 2013-2014. DXB doesn't have good connections to western/northern Europe and east Asia, YVR's strong spots, and it really only shines for MENASA traffic, which China Southern and BA have already locked down at YVR (and I suspect LH as well). If the Canada-Turkey trade agreement is a go and we get YVR-IST via Turkish Airlines, we may not even need service to DXB.

One more thing about EK in SEA: They only use 2x daily 77Ws because Sea-Tac doesn't have the capacity to support A380s...while YVR does. And BA84/85 will be upgauged to a 388 in the summer, along with AC's second daily (a 789), and the inaugural 747-8i service to ICN via KE71/72. Checkmate, Seattle.

PS: Please recommend me a source for inexpensive YVR-MENASA fares. I should not have to pay $1600 to fly to India just so I can avoid the zoo that is CAN.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Alpine

Does anyone know why YVR-MENASA fares are getting so pricey these days? I'll copy part of the post I made on Flyertalk about this:



Also, re: EK's service in SEA. I've been told on Airliners.net that if EK was in YVR, it would cannibalize the rich variety of routes that it currently has. My guess is, not only would AC be at risk (although that is probably a reason why there's no EK flights to YVR), but such a route would also eat through BA and Lufthansa's TATL hub traffic, not to mention KLM and Air France!

Also on A.net, I've heard that EK's current current 2x daily 77W SEA-DXB service cost Sea-Tac a few airlines and routes. The weakening loonie and AC's new YYZ-DEL/YYZ-DXB routes suddenly means EK isn't getting as much YVR-MENASA traffic as in 2013-2014. DXB doesn't have good connections to western/northern Europe and east Asia, YVR's strong spots, and it really only shines for MENASA traffic, which China Southern and BA have already locked down at YVR (and I suspect LH as well). If the Canada-Turkey trade agreement is a go and we get YVR-IST via Turkish Airlines, we may not even need service to DXB.

One more thing about EK in SEA: They only use 2x daily 77Ws because Sea-Tac doesn't have the capacity to support A380s...while YVR does. And BA84/85 will be upgauged to a 388 in the summer, along with AC's second daily (a 789), and the inaugural 747-8i service to ICN via KE71/72. Checkmate, Seattle.

PS: Please recommend me a source for inexpensive YVR-MENASA fares. I should not have to pay $1600 to fly to India just so I can avoid the zoo that is CAN.

I think IST would be a great destination for YVR. Better than DBX, which is at the exact opposite longitude as YVR! Anything to India or Pakistan is shorter over the Pacific.

OK .... can anyone help this gentleman with his second question? ... Step right up, please ...

[casper]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

I think IST would be a great destination for YVR. Better than DBX, which is at the exact opposite longitude as YVR! Anything to India or Pakistan is shorter over the Pacific.

OK .... can anyone help this gentleman with his second question? ... Step right up, please ...

There is no specific airline or route that has the beast rate. They all price based on how many seats are currently available and what the airlines software thinks it will be able to sell in the future as it gets closer to departure date.

The following tool will search all published rates: https://matrix.itasoftware.com/

You can try to get the ita routines and fare base by trial and error on websites or take the code for the flight to a travel agent who will ticket.

There are also some travel agents that specialise in working with consolidators that have access to un published fares.

One last game to play if buy a ticket from Vancouver to somewhere else (Like London) then another ticket from their. I would plan on stating over a night as your not protected from missed connections if billed on separate tickets.

[Vagabond]

I'm seeing many YVR-DEL flights (at different times of the year) on Google Flights in the $1000-$1200 CAD range. And not all of those flights are on Chinese carriers. YVR-BOM is always a bit more, if you don't want to fly on Ar China or Air India, but I haven't noticed a huge jump in prices on that route either (recently).

The advantages of a direct YVR-DXB flight would go beyond simply what is the most direct flight path to South Asia, as flying through DXB would offer a lot more flexibility on routing and scheduling to South Asia and the Middle East. You miss your connecting flight to Mumbai or Delhi - no worries - there will be another one in a couple of hours (not so via LHR or PEK, etc.)!

Also, flying to DEL and BOM trans pacific isn't nearly as direct as gcmap.com makes it look like, as commercial airlines don't fly over the highest peaks of the Himalaya, resulting in extended flight times between Northeast Asia and India/Nepal. Seoul-Mumbai is nearly as long a flight as London-Mumbai, despite being over 1000 miles shorter (in a straight line). In gate-to-gate timings, flying through Asia is approx. the same as going through Europe, you just usually spend more time in the air, as opposed to slightly shorter flights and longer layovers via Europe.

Originally Posted by trofirhen

I think IST would be a great destination for YVR. Better than DBX, which is at the exact opposite longitude as YVR! Anything to India or Pakistan is shorter over the Pacific.

OK .... can anyone help this gentleman with his second question? ... Step right up, please ...

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Vagabond

I'm seeing many YVR-DEL flights (at different times of the year) on Google Flights in the $1000-$1200 CAD range. And not all of those flights are on Chinese carriers. YVR-BOM is always a bit more, if you don't want to fly on Ar China or Air India, but I haven't noticed a huge jump in prices on that route either (recently).

The advantages of a direct YVR-DXB flight would go beyond simply what is the most direct flight path to South Asia, as flying through DXB would offer a lot more flexibility on routing and scheduling to South Asia and the Middle East. You miss your connecting flight to Mumbai or Delhi - no worries - there will be another one in a couple of hours (not so via LHR or PEK, etc.)!

Also, flying to DEL and BOM trans pacific isn't nearly as direct as gcmap.com makes it look like, as commercial airlines don't fly over the highest peaks of the Himalaya, resulting in extended flight times between Northeast Asia and India/Nepal. Seoul-Mumbai is nearly as long a flight as London-Mumbai, despite being over 1000 miles shorter (in a straight line). In gate-to-gate timings, flying through Asia is approx. the same as going through Europe, you just usually spend more time in the air, as opposed to slightly shorter flights and longer layovers via Europe.

Your point is well made. My problem is EK itself, and their policy of treating the entire world as if on a "global open skies" premise. They want access to all routes, anywhere, then "CHOMP"
I would much prefer QATAR Airways if we're going for a South Asia route. QATAR is a member of OneWorld, and as such are more likely to stick to playing by the rules, I think.

[nname]

So I was wondering why reservation haven't opened for Xiamen Airlines when the route is scheduled to start in about 4 months. Apparently they haven't obtain the license to operate in Canada yet:

https://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/2016-a-35

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by nname

So I was wondering why reservation haven't opened for Xiamen Airlines when the route is scheduled to start in about 4 months. Apparently they haven't obtain the license to operate in Canada yet:

https://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/2016-a-35

I check out the following link from time to time... https://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/decisions

Gives some good insight as to possible upcoming routes... makes for great speculation though

Lucky for Xiamen.

The CTA appears to be reasonable in its decision to grant an exemption to allow Xiamen Airlines to start selling the flights Subjec to Gov't Approval.

They are cutting it pretty close though. Although this probably isn't as rare as we think.

I suppose this may also be the case for Tianjin and Beijing Capital Airlines.

[nname]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

I check out the following link from time to time... https://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/decisions

Yes I've been monitoring that page

It seems lately Air Canada is expanding all over the world by codesharing... The latest codeshare destinations are Singapore, Grenada, Bolivia, and Kenya...

[Hot Rod]

Originally Posted by Alpine

Does anyone know why YVR-MENASA fares are getting so pricey these days? I'll copy part of the post I made on Flyertalk about this:



Also, re: EK's service in SEA. I've been told on Airliners.net that if EK was in YVR, it would cannibalize the rich variety of routes that it currently has. My guess is, not only would AC be at risk (although that is probably a reason why there's no EK flights to YVR), but such a route would also eat through BA and Lufthansa's TATL hub traffic, not to mention KLM and Air France!

Also on A.net, I've heard that EK's current current 2x daily 77W SEA-DXB service cost Sea-Tac a few airlines and routes. The weakening loonie and AC's new YYZ-DEL/YYZ-DXB routes suddenly means EK isn't getting as much YVR-MENASA traffic as in 2013-2014. DXB doesn't have good connections to western/northern Europe and east Asia, YVR's strong spots, and it really only shines for MENASA traffic, which China Southern and BA have already locked down at YVR (and I suspect LH as well). If the Canada-Turkey trade agreement is a go and we get YVR-IST via Turkish Airlines, we may not even need service to DXB.

One more thing about EK in SEA: They only use 2x daily 77Ws because Sea-Tac doesn't have the capacity to support A380s...while YVR does. And BA84/85 will be upgauged to a 388 in the summer, along with AC's second daily (a 789), and the inaugural 747-8i service to ICN via KE71/72. Checkmate, Seattle.

PS: Please recommend me a source for inexpensive YVR-MENASA fares. I should not have to pay $1600 to fly to India just so I can avoid the zoo that is CAN.

Isn't Lufthansa supposed to be flying 747-8i into YVR from Frankfurt as well?

[Klazu]

Only speculated, never confirmed.

[Johnny Aussie]

http://yvr.ca/en/flight-information/late...in_Canada_for_the_First_Time_at_YVR.aspx

[excel]

Crazy to think YVR will have more Chinese carriers than LAX, LHR, AMS, FRA, SFO and JFK.