PHILADELPHIA | W Hotel & Element by Westin | 617 FT | 51 FLOORS - Page 44

Cro Burnham · #**861** Posted **May 11, 2015, 4:11 PM**

The owners of this parcel and the Ritz (Craig Spencer) had, until a deal was finally worked out, been engaged in years of interminable litigation. They finally reached a compromise that limited the massing and height of the Lenfest site.

Blenfest could probably elaborate, though my impression from his prior posts is that he'd rather glovelessly clean out the anus of a diabetic Cameroonian mandrill than darken his mind further with thoughts of Spencer.

summersm343 · #**862** Posted **May 15, 2015, 1:31 AM**

Calm before the storm

1487 · #**863** Posted **May 15, 2015, 5:54 PM**

THey were doing a lot of work on the north side of the jersey barriers when I walked by. It seems like they were bracing them to the concrete so they cant move if hit. I guess that is to protect the trailers that are likely to be placed in that area. Losing that corner definitely makes the other corners at 15th and chestnut pretty congested.

philatonian · #**864** Posted **May 16, 2015, 4:36 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1487

Ive heard or read before that Philly area folks are generally not willing to park and walk 4-5 blocks to reach a destination which would be common in NYC. I think thats just a mentality thats developed because historically it was easy to find a garage or large lot within a short walk of any major destination in CC. Thats probably less true nowadays but its a change for people who come into CC but dont expect to walk more than 1-3 blocks to reach their destination.

I think it's a mentality that's dwindling. Both from the influx of new urban residents and just a matter of practicality. There was a time when the city was pushing for surface lots. I believe it was when Rendell was mayor and trying to get suburbanites to come downtown, he really pushed for Sansom to host parking for the restaurants on Walnut Street.

It's not unique to Philadelphia. DC used to be that way in the 90s and has/had way worse traffic. With the resurgence of Center City development, property will inevitably become too valuable for surface lots and people will just have to deal with it. But there will always be a bizarrely suburban mentality that makes someone willing to hop on an interstate, go through three jug handles, to walk across a parking lot for a grocery store that's right behind their house. People will walk across a Walmart parking lot, but for some reason can't grasp that two city is sometimes much, much shorter. People will always complain about parking. City planners just need to recognize that it's just white noise. The fact that this was a surface parking lot directly across from City Hall for about 20 years is mind boggling, even at Philly's worst.

1487 · #**865** Posted **May 18, 2015, 12:40 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by philatonian

I think it's a mentality that's dwindling. Both from the influx of new urban residents and just a matter of practicality. There was a time when the city was pushing for surface lots. I believe it was when Rendell was mayor and trying to get suburbanites to come downtown, he really pushed for Sansom to host parking for the restaurants on Walnut Street.

It's not unique to Philadelphia. DC used to be that way in the 90s and has/had way worse traffic. With the resurgence of Center City development, property will inevitably become too valuable for surface lots and people will just have to deal with it. But there will always be a bizarrely suburban mentality that makes someone willing to hop on an interstate, go through three jug handles, to walk across a parking lot for a grocery store that's right behind their house. People will walk across a Walmart parking lot, but for some reason can't grasp that two city is sometimes much, much shorter. People will always complain about parking. City planners just need to recognize that it's just white noise. The fact that this was a surface parking lot directly across from City Hall for about 20 years is mind boggling, even at Philly's worst.

unless you need to come into town for a late evening event the smart bet from the suburbs would be the train. Some people are just totally intimidated or opposed to using pubic transportation even when it makes far more sense than driving. Many of the people who complain about the cost or inconvenience of driving into the city couldve easily taken SEPTA and saved themselves a headache.

McBane · #**866** Posted **May 18, 2015, 2:01 PM**

I have to respectfully disagree.

SEPTA trains suck. They're super expensive and their headways are too infrequent - especially on off hours - to make them a practical way of getting downtown for an evening out. Not to mention they stop running fairly early.

Do the math: if you're coming down with your significant other and you buy your tix on the train (gasp! $2 surcharge!) and pay to park your car in the train lot, you can easily spend $20 or more. Which is roughly about what a garage charges. Thinking about taking your kids to a museum on a Saturday afternoon? No way is taking a family of 3 or 4 ever going to be cheaper than driving and parking in a garage.

Add in the convenience factor (when headways are once an hour) and the additional time and effort taking a train involves and you can see why people choose to drive.

Also, you have to remember that whereas the vast majority of CC's jobs are located within a couple blocks of the three major train stations, Philadelphia's restaurant and nightlife has expanded well beyond those boundaries. Taking a train is not the best option if you're dining out in South Philly, Old City, Fishtown, Fairmount, etc.

So while taking the train to and from a 9-5 job on Market Street is a no-brainer, I'd have to disagree that it's the best option for off peak travel into the city. Unless of course it's to a huge event, like 4th of July, Made in America festival, the Pope's visit, Championship parade, etc.

summersm343 · #**867** Posted **May 18, 2015, 5:04 PM**

This really has nothing to do with the W/Element construction anymore. Let's stay on topic.

philatonian · #**868** Posted **May 19, 2015, 1:02 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1487

unless you need to come into town for a late evening event the smart bet from the suburbs would be the train. Some people are just totally intimidated or opposed to using pubic transportation even when it makes far more sense than driving. Many of the people who complain about the cost or inconvenience of driving into the city couldve easily taken SEPTA and saved themselves a headache.

I definitely agree, although McBane makes a good point too. Depending on where you're coming from, it's sometimes faster to drive if it's off-peak hours. That doesn't change the fact that there is still plenty of parking, and if you know where to go, affordable parking. The Drexel garage at 15th and Vine charges $5 a day on the weekends.

I think part of the aversion to trains is completely unjust, but I've felt it myself. When you're driving, even if you're stuck in traffic or driving 30+ miles, you're engaged the whole time (or should be). When you're on a train you're sitting and waiting with no distraction but your desire to be anywhere else. It's psychological. And also simply that most Americans just really like knowing their car is nearby.

As it is regarding this thread though, this parking lot will not be missed by anyone. It was a placeholder to begin with. I love the W's design, but I don't think they ever should have torn down the buildings that were there. They could have definitely salvaged the big one.

Koernerstr32 · #**869** Posted **May 19, 2015, 2:27 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by philatonian

I definitely agree, although McBane makes a good point too. Depending on where you're coming from, it's sometimes faster to drive if it's off-peak hours. That doesn't change the fact that there is still plenty of parking, and if you know where to go, affordable parking. The Drexel garage at 15th and Vine charges $5 a day on the weekends.

I think part of the aversion to trains is completely unjust, but I've felt it myself. When you're driving, even if you're stuck in traffic or driving 30+ miles, you're engaged the whole time (or should be). When you're on a train you're sitting and waiting with no distraction but your desire to be anywhere else. It's psychological. And also simply that most Americans just really like knowing their car is nearby.

As it is regarding this thread though, this parking lot will not be missed by anyone. It was a placeholder to begin with. I love the W's design, but I don't think they ever should have torn down the buildings that were there. They could have definitely salvaged the big one.

That "empty lot" you describe came about because of the One Merdian Plaza high rise that burned in the early 90's...there was nothing to salvage but just a tragedy that occurred. The buildings were torn down because of that fire in the 90's...nothing was planned here.

philatonian · #**870** Posted **May 19, 2015, 2:56 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koernerstr32

That "empty lot" you describe came about because of the One Merdian Plaza high rise that burned in the early 90's...there was nothing to salvage but just a tragedy that occurred. The buildings were torn down because of that fire in the 90's...nothing was planned here.

One Meridian was where the Ritz is. The W lot was a collection of several buildings with smoke and water damage.

thisisforreal · #**871** Posted **May 19, 2015, 12:41 PM**

From 5 minutes ago. The bulldozer on the right is actively pushing dirt. Not much else happening.

thisisforreal · #**872** Posted **May 19, 2015, 12:43 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philly-Drew

ThisIsForReal, damn! What an absolute amazing vantage point. Not sure what kind camera you have but can you do a vertical pano (up and down) from that same vantage point? That would give a decent perspective of the northern views from the East side of this building. I've been very curios as to how much of this building will have a view of William Penn.

I'll take a good panoramic when the sky is crisp and clean so that visibility is better. Windows are already so dirty as it is, I'll take everything I can get.