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  #861  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2013, 9:32 PM
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Moncton Council ponders closing Main Street in summer
City will consult the public before making a decision about closing Main Street from Canada Day to Labour Day
Allan Dearing
Sep 4, 2013 04:39:55 PM

MONCTON, NB – Moncton City Council has agreed to consult residents and downtown businesses before deciding to shutdown Main Street to pedestrians only during the summer.

The idea was originally brought forward by Councillor Daniel Bourgeois last year and city staff have done some research.

Mayor George LeBlanc says closing portions of Main Street for events is one thing but for two months in the summer is another.

“One of the things people love about Moncton… downtown Moncton… is when we have events downtown. When there are thousands of people downtown and Main Street is closed and it is vibrant …and it is busy and bustling,” notes LeBlanc.

City council can gather public feedback in a variety of ways, including using an online survey, but has not yet decided how to proceed.


Personal note: NOOOOOOOO! For the few events it gets shut down, that is great but not all summer. Although it would require some work and planning, I would be OK with turning Main street into a one way for a portion of it (Assumption/Lewis to Lutz). As long as it's planned properly. Maybe even have the one way with only one lane (and turning lanes) in order to increase the street patio size. The one way would make it easier for pedestrians. Make it a little safer than the status quo.
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  #862  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2013, 1:03 AM
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Baaaaaad idea. The thought came up too to close Queen Street in Fredericton during the summer. Not a good idea.
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  #863  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2013, 2:22 AM
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Originally Posted by C_Boy View Post
[B][SIZE="5"]Personal note: NOOOOOOOO! For the few events it gets shut down, that is great but not all summer. Although it would require some work and planning, I would be OK with turning Main street into a one way for a portion of it (Assumption/Lewis to Lutz). As long as it's planned properly. Maybe even have the one way with only one lane (and turning lanes) in order to increase the street patio size. The one way would make it easier for pedestrians. Make it a little safer than the status quo.
Let me reiterate for emphasis.....

Nooooooo!!!!!

I have reluctantly become a believer in downtown parking on Main Street. It is at least not the unmitigated disaster that I was expecting (of course I am never downtown at the height of rush hour, so I am unsure how much chaos is ensuing).

I will never support turning Main Street into a pedestrian mall though. As Knoxfordguy said, it would be a baaaaad idea!!!

Main Street is after all Main Street. It is not some side street that nobody really cares about. It is the only direct route through the downtown core. It is a vital piece of transportation infrastructure that nourishes the business community in the core. Cut off Main Street and all the businesses located on Main Street (especially restaurants and hotels) would suffer immensely.

This is the analysis that city staff has come up with regarding the advisability of a pedestrian mall on Main Street.

"City staff 's research found certain conditions must be in place to create a successful pedestrian mall and Moncton lacks a number of them.

To be successful a pedestrian mall must have a varied mix of uses, a large population of captive users including a strong resident base, heavily programmed activities, incorporation of efficient public transit and a location on a side street as opposed to a main thoroughfare.

Strong anchors on each end of the mall that serve both as pedestrian generators and help to enclose the space are also key, while centralized or co-ordinated retail management and well planned and extensive parking adjacent to the pedestrian mall are also important.

The area should already have a high amount of tourism and location in a college town or near a college neighbourhood is critical.

'Creating pedestrian malls does not create pedestrians,' Sébastien Arcand of the City of Moncton's urban planning department told council. Rather, they tend to succeed in larger centres in places where they can build on already considerable amounts of pedestrian traffic.

More than 200 North American cities have experimented with pedestrian malls since Kalamazoo, Mich., was the first to try one in 1959. Only about 15 per cent of those remain today.

Staff also found a recent survey of 72 communities that constructed pedestrian malls showed 56 of those communities have completely or partially reopened theirs to vehicle traffic and an additional 10 per cent are considering such an action.

When pedestrian malls have not been successful communities have experienced issues with vandalism, litter, safety and reduced business activity.

Many cities have also been challenged by the ongoing costs involved in programming events to draw people to the pedestrian spaces.


I personally think this analysis is spot on, but the idea of a pedestrian mall on Main Street remains a pet project of Councillor Bourgeois and he is like a dog with a bone on this. For some reason, Mayor LeBlanc is acting as an enabler for Councillor Bourgeois on this issue. I find this perplexing as I usually have the greatest respect for the mayor.

This harebrained idea needs to be nipped in the bud. A vital Main Street needs unfettered two way traffic to succeed. If Main Street were blocked off, the downtown would die of asphyxiation and any thoughts of a downtown events centre would evaporate. Why would you build a 10,000 seat arena if there is no way for you to get there. It's reductio ad absurdum!!!

If you want a downtown pedestrian mall, put it on some little used side street. For the life of all things holy, don't put it on Main Street.

Jeez!!!!
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  #864  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2013, 2:48 AM
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We've seen how well that works with Oak Park and Robinson Park. If there isn't a steady flow of people and constant activity, the place will stagnate and become a place to avoid, rather than an attraction.
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  #865  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2013, 2:53 AM
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Don't worry, there were only 2 councilors who voted yes to it, the rest thought it was a bad idea, I watched the meeting on Rogers tv. Nobody needs to worry.
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  #866  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2013, 6:50 PM
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Anyone go or drive by today? Did it open?
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I don't think StarBucks will open tomorrow, I drove by today and there is still alot to do in the store it appears.
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  #867  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2013, 8:06 PM
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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
Main Street is after all Main Street. It is not some side street that nobody really cares about.
I would venture a guess that this was the point. Why would you try to make a street that "nobody really cares about" into a vibrant pedestrian area? The point is that it's already quite walkable, and is one of the only commercial areas in Moncton (THE only?) that is. I would guess that the councilor visited Montreal, saw St. Catherine St. during the summer, thought "it would be fantastic if Moncton had something like this", and identified Main St. as the only street in Moncton really resembling St. Catherine in any way.

In theory it could work - how hard would it actually be to shift traffic onto a parallel route, say St. George St, or Gordon/Queen?

However I think it's a misguided idea at the moment, because people would likely have to drive and park downtown just to enjoy the pedestrian-only street, which kind of defeats the purpose. If people could walk there, it would be different. It would also make a bit more sense if there were more stuff to walk to in the area surrounding Main, especially to the south. It might be interesting to close a few blocks of the street to traffic for a weekend (or even a week) during the summer, but I don't really see the point of closing it for the whole summer.

In many parts of the country the attitude of "Streets aren't 'for cars', they're 'for people'" is seeing a big resurgence. Just out of curiosity, do any of you agree with this statement?
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  #868  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2013, 9:35 PM
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I just spent last weekend in Halifax and was struck by how many pedestrians were walking up and down Spring Garden Rd and how they filled all of the little shops. I kept thinking "Why can't Downtown Moncton be like this?". Traffic was heavy but didn't stop anyone from enjoying a stroll.

The problem is almost NO ONE lives in Downtown Moncton. "Build it and they will come" (or "shut down main and they will walk") does not apply here. Our "Downtown" supposedly consists of everything between St George & Main (& Assumption), but not much exists between the them. Maybe if Queen St would fill itself with several 8 story apartment buildings instead of parking lots and old, small, multi-unit housing, we'd have the foot traffic to justify closing a main street. The other issue is, Mountain, St George, Assumption & Main all converge in the same area. If Queen continued to it's own Dieppe entrance, it would be a different story. Instead, it ends just before all of the aforementioned streets line up. That is one bottleneck that won't improve by blocking the most direct route out of it.
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  #869  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2013, 9:49 PM
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I just spent last weekend in Halifax and was struck by how many pedestrians were walking up and down Spring Garden Rd and how they filled all of the little shops. I kept thinking "Why can't Downtown Moncton be like this?". Traffic was heavy but didn't stop anyone from enjoying a stroll.

Sorry. Moncton's not allowed to have a healthy downtown. The city's tax revenues are for developing the suburbs as far out as possible.
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  #870  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2013, 9:57 PM
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Sorry. Moncton's not allowed to have a healthy downtown. The city's tax revenues are for developing the suburbs as far out as possible.
I can't wait for the areas way out by Royal Oaks to boom once the new HS is built.
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  #871  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2013, 10:54 PM
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I can't wait for the areas way out by Royal Oaks to boom once the new HS is built.
Every damn lot in and around Royal Oaks could develop. The tax revenues still wouldn't make the subdivision's services sustainable, let alone contribute to paying for the high operating costs of the displaced Moncton High.

Absolutely. Fucking. Pathetic.
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  #872  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2013, 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Hali87 View Post
I would venture a guess that this was the point. Why would you try to make a street that "nobody really cares about" into a vibrant pedestrian area? The point is that it's already quite walkable, and is one of the only commercial areas in Moncton (THE only?) that is. I would guess that the councilor visited Montreal, saw St. Catherine St. during the summer, thought "it would be fantastic if Moncton had something like this", and identified Main St. as the only street in Moncton really resembling St. Catherine in any way.

In theory it could work - how hard would it actually be to shift traffic onto a parallel route, say St. George St, or Gordon/Queen?

However I think it's a misguided idea at the moment, because people would likely have to drive and park downtown just to enjoy the pedestrian-only street, which kind of defeats the purpose. If people could walk there, it would be different. It would also make a bit more sense if there were more stuff to walk to in the area surrounding Main, especially to the south. It might be interesting to close a few blocks of the street to traffic for a weekend (or even a week) during the summer, but I don't really see the point of closing it for the whole summer.

In many parts of the country the attitude of "Streets aren't 'for cars', they're 'for people'" is seeing a big resurgence. Just out of curiosity, do any of you agree with this statement?
I have nothing against the concept of pedestrianizing the downtown. It just has to be done in a smart way. As Sebastien Arcand of the city planning department said - "creating pedestrian malls does not create pedestrians".

One thing I know for sure is that the axis of Moncton is east/west and not north/south. Most traffic passes through downtown in an east/west direction. This traffic flow is serviced by Mountain Rd, St George St, Main St and Assomption Blvd. Of these four arteries, the only one that passes completely through the core from Moncton West to Dieppe is Main Street. Main Street is therefore the most important street in downtown Moncton for getting into and out of the core. It would be shear lunacy to barricade this street and convert it to pedestrian use only. The only thing this would accomplish would be to throw up yet another obstacle to casual visitors from the suburbs actually visiting the downtown. Instead the suburbanites would just hop onto Wheeler Blvd and head to Champlain Place instead. Heck, the parking is even free and plentiful at Champlain too!! Why the fuck go to downtown anyway?

To have a pedestrianized space in the core, it needs to be accessible which means that car loving Monctonians would have to be able to drive down there and find readily available non-bootable parking. The pedestrian space would need to have attractions to draw people in from the burbs. Throwing up a few concrete barriers on either end of Main Street and hoping for the best is not a solution - it is a recipe for a disaster.......

What I would prefer would be to do everything possible to encourage development and densification south of Main Street, down to and including Assomption Blvd and incorporating the Riverfront Park into a grand vision of a healthy, urban and vital downtown core. This area should include condos and apartments (to encourage pedestrian traffic) as well as a mix of commercial and retail space as well as hotels and restaurants. It would be nice to see a cluster of 8-12 storey mixed use buildings in this area - buildings with a street presence and interesting storefronts and street level cafes and bistros. Since this area is currently a wasteland, it would be easy to plan a grand new downtown community from the ground up and include appropriate pedestrian spaces here. This is where the city should concentrate it's efforts in making the downtown more pedestrian friendly, not in throwing up temporary concrete barriers on Main Street.

The T&T had an editorial in the paper today complaining that the city staffers were getting "uppity" and should learn their place, and that decision making should be left in the hands of city council. This may be true, but in this case, city council had better listen carefully to what the planning department had to say. Pedestrianizing Main Street is a bad, BAD, BAD idea!!!!
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  #873  
Old Posted Sep 6, 2013, 2:34 PM
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StarBucks Open

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I don't think StarBucks will open tomorrow, I drove by today and there is still alot to do in the store it appears.
apparently I was mistaken, The StarBucks downtown is NOW OPEN.
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  #874  
Old Posted Sep 6, 2013, 6:38 PM
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Completely closing Main st during the summer months is not going to happen. The downtown merchants cried to have parking on Main streets and now that it's been proven popular, there's no way the merchants are going to approve to have that taken away.

There is one option that may satisfy everyone. Close Main street between Church and Alma.

This piece of Main street is perfect for an outdoor pedestrian mall. Old Triangles and Timothy's could expand their terraces onto the street level, musicians and buskers can set up shop throughout the area, lunch time & evening food carts, local arts & crafts vendors, etc.

You'll notice I placed flashing neon signs on top of the parking garage. I'm sure half of Moncton city residents don't even know we have one.

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  #875  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2013, 5:49 AM
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Why does it have to be Main St? The city could use a nice North-South axis downtown. Why not turn Church St into that? It's already seen some redevelopment with Starbucks and the Peace Centre. Fill in a couple of those lots with more mixed-use developments etc...
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  #876  
Old Posted Sep 11, 2013, 5:12 PM
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I noticed this morning they are clearing land behind the Rogers building. I'm going to assume they are creating more room for.. wait for it.. more parking!
Once again, today there is some heavy equipment working on the small piece of land between the former Oulton's buiding, Assomption Blvd, and the Rogers lot. Yet again, looks like another area to park. Instead of development, parking just seems to be expanding. It certainly doesn't compliment the area very well with your mix of paved, mud, and gravel covered lots.
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  #877  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2013, 8:58 PM
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Editorial from today's T&T:

Excellent proposal for old school site
Thursday, September 12, 2013
Times & Transcript

A proposal from an unnamed consortium to repurpose Moncton High School seems more realistic - and therefore more promising - than some others that have been floated of late. An earlier proposal for a public swimming pool seems unnecessary and expensive to us, and with the proximity of Theatre l'Escaouette just across Mountain Road a performing arts centre does not seem promising even though the school already contains a stage.

But a mixed-use residential, commercial, office and food and beverage complex as described by consortium consultants Bill Whalen of prominent communications firm Hawk and landscape architect Jim Scott of Trace Planning and Design looks to us like a pragmatic but still exciting concept. For example MHS's famous 'quad' is promising as a courtyard-style setting for such attractions as restaurants, which thanks to the large but well-protected space enclosed by the high, facing exterior walls of the school would indeed be able to offer outdoor dining deeper into the fall season than its counterparts elsewhere in the downtown.

We're not sure about the likely success of attempting to attract community organizations as tenants since several already occupy the Peace Centre further west, but the site to our mind would be attractive to commercial firms, especially if housing development also unfolds as proposed. We particularly like the concept presented by Mr. Whalen of linking the building to the immediate neighbourhood and also to the rest of the downtown.

Although the site is some distance from a proposed downtown events centre at the former Highfield Square mall, it might yet be close enough to take advantage of pedestrian traffic emanating from there on 'game nights' and other events. And the venerable old building seems an ideal neighbour for such cultural attractions as the Aberdeen Cultural Centre and the beautiful new Transportation Discovery Centre now rising from the rubble of the old Moncton Museum just a stone's throw away.

personal note - for those who are unaware, some unnamed "consortium" is floating the concept of a mixed use complex for the old MHS site. This is all highly unofficial so far, but obviously the T&T knows more about this than they are letting on. I agree with the T&T's analysis and their support for this unofficial proposal but with one exception. I do think it is important to have a cultural space in the new complex. Specifically, the MHS auditorium needs to be preserved. It is architecturally distinctive and one of the best performance spaces in the city. The fact that Theatre l'Escaouette is just across the street is irrelevant. The English community in the city needs a venue of their own to promote live theatre and community arts productions. This is the obvious place to do it. The MHS auditorium already exists and just needs a little refurbishment to survive well into the future. Besides, I am aware of a desire to continue to have MHS graduations and special events (ie school plays and musicals) still staged in the old auditorium even after they move to the nether regions of the city. The MHS auditorium has to be preserved........
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  #878  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2013, 1:34 PM
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Further to the above, the province has re-issued the RFP for the old MHS site, and has sweetened the pot a bit by requesting 17,000 sq ft of government leasable office space as well as space for three non profit organizations looking to move into the complex.

This should bring a few more developers out of the woodwork......

Here is the CBC link to the article on this, which included the actual RFP itself:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/story/2013/09/12/nb-moncton-high-rfp-williams-225.html
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  #879  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2013, 8:56 PM
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from today's T&T:

Moncton's Resurgo Place taking shape
Friday, September 13, 2013
Times & Transcript
By: Brent Mazerolle

The great cowcatcher skylight, which seems destined to become one of Moncton's most distinctive architectural features thanks to its design recalling a cowcatcher on the locomotives of old, is now being installed on Moncton's Transportation Discovery Centre/ Moncton Museum.

Nothing impressive is ever easy, of course. The glass structure is by far the most complex glass structure in the Atlantic region and could be one of the most complicated in the country, according to local businessman Ryan Blackbeard, the owner of Glass Structures Inc.

Blackbeard's company won the contract to provide the glass and panel structure over an intricate steel skeleton installed under Phase 1 of the museum project.

There were unexpected challenges that needed to be resolved in order for the massive undertaking of fitting the glass and panel covering over the structure to move forward. There was some delay in getting started but the installation is well underway.

In fact, it was largely because of the iconic structural element that the discovery centre's opening has been delayed from later this month to December.

Ben Champoux, the city's director of tourism and culture says the City of Moncton has only one shot at a first impression with the opening of its museum complex, Place Resurgo Place, featuring the $10-million Transportation Discovery Centre.

'This is 13 years in the making,' he said. 'It's highly important for us to make sure we do it right.' Copper-coloured panels will be installed between the glass sections when they arrive at a later date.

full article:
http://22864.vws.magma.ca/index.php?&article_id=11872
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  #880  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2013, 5:57 PM
Lrdevlop Lrdevlop is offline
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A number of factors make me question the feasibility of this development becoming successful:

- a number of condos are still for sale on Dominion St (and are of better value)

- planned second building of Dominion St condos
Bad paperwork, bad planning is the reason why none have sold. Don't get me wrong - lots of people tried to buy a unit apparently. No one currently lives in a condo in this building.

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- the building at St George/Archibald has been undergoing a transformation into condos for years (originally slated to be ready 2-3 years ago) and they're still pre-selling units (they might've even run out of funds -- I haven't seen any activity there in months)
That's a whole other story. It's impossible to compare this project to FiveFive - as you've seen, construction stopped and stalled on this project since a while. Bad planning too.

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How many people are really willing to pay $300k to $700k to live in downtown Moncton?
Many. You would be surprised of the number of people with strong interest in either renting or purchasing a unit.

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