[Moncton] Northwest/Magnetic Hill Developments - Page 44

JHikka · #**861** Posted **Oct 15, 2016, 3:41 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmmatt

I wish density like that could go up on Assumption Blvd instead but I suppose "downtown living" isn't high on the priority list for the prospective clientele.

Indeed, four ten-storey residential developments would be a lot better Downtown than out by the TCH, seniors complex or not.

NBNYer · #**862** Posted **Oct 15, 2016, 11:26 AM**

These buildings would have been great on those empty lots along the eastern end of Main street. But it's not like downtown isn't experiencing its own share of development as of late. I'll take it

Monctoncore · #**863** Posted **Oct 15, 2016, 1:39 PM**

The bigger question before we all get excited is when do they plan on breaks by ground?

MonctonRad · #**864** Posted **Oct 15, 2016, 4:08 PM**

Opinion:

- Is Moncton developing an "Uptown" to go along with it's Downtown??

With recent announcements such as this:

and this:

It's becoming pretty obvious that the Mapleton Road district has become the principle development nexus in the city outside (or even including) the downtown core. Not only is the city growing "out" in the Mapleton area, it is also growing "up" with a number of buildings already developed or proposed that will give this area an actual skyline.

- the Shannex Parkland Moncton development will have at least four 10 storey residential buildings (and a 5 storey building too)
- hotels in the area include (or will include) the Hampton Inn (6 stories), Holiday Inn & Suites (6 stories) and the Four Points by Sheraton (4 stories).
- the 585 Mapleton medical complex is a large 4 storey building.

There are several major shopping centres along Mapleton between Trinity and the TCH, including Wheeler Park, the Mapleton Centre and Mapleton Crossing, including a number of unique destination retailers like Cabela's. Mapleton Road also seems to be becoming the "go to area" for major chain restaurants setting up in the city.

As density in the area increases, and as adjacent areas of the "vision lands" get incorporated into the development area, I personally think that it is inevitable that this area will become Moncton's de fact Uptown area. This will be especially true if city council enforces development guidelines promoting high density land use.

This is a golden opportunity for the city. This area of the city has the potential to be one of the best urban areas in the entire Atlantic region if developed in a thoughtful manner. We shouldn't bollocks this up. We need to do this right. Lets make sure that LJR Blvd is the focus of high density development with both height and intensity, especially along it's western edge intersecting Mapleton Road........

MonctonRad · #**865** Posted **Oct 15, 2016, 4:22 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monctoncore

The bigger question before we all get excited is when do they plan on breaks by ground?

Good question.

The good news is that we are dealing with Shannex here. Shannex is a major national company and I have no doubt that they are dead serious on this development. The site plan seems thoughtfully prepared and I think a lot of effort has gone into this already. I have little doubt that this project will happen.

As we all know however, there is often considerable lag between the time when a project is announced and when shovels get in the ground, sometimes several years or so. Shannex however did get started on their UdeM project on Morton within a year of the announcement.

The UdeM project however does include a second phase (the two 5 storey buildings on the left side of this render that NBNYer found. It could be that Shannex will do phase two of the UdeM project before beginning the Parkland Moncton development. We'll just have to wait and see.

In any event, if the Shannex Parkland Moncton doesn't begin in 2017, I would be pretty confident that it will start in 2018. I'm hopeful that it would be completed by 2020 (except perhaps for the Lifestyle Buildings #5-8, which strike me as being a "phase 2 thing").

JHikka · #**866** Posted **Oct 15, 2016, 6:43 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

This is a golden opportunity for the city. This area of the city has the potential to be one of the best urban areas in the entire Atlantic region if developed in a thoughtful manner. We shouldn't bollocks this up. We need to do this right. Lets make sure that LJR Blvd is the focus of high density development with both height and intensity, especially along it's western edge intersecting Mapleton Road........

Power centres, seniors complexes, and standalone hotels all surrounded by surface parking don't scream urban to me. They're suburban developments with moderately added height.

Moncton should be focusing its density in its Downtown core and each and every one of these 4-6-10 storey developments is taking away from potential density which could have been added to that core. What you're left with is moderately increased density sprawled over a larger area than before.

MonctonRad · #**867** Posted **Oct 15, 2016, 10:35 PM**

Oh I'm not suggesting that the Mapleton Road district should be competing with the downtown core, but a lot of urban areas have suburban developmental nexi in addition to the core where a cluster of at least moderate (if not high) density development occurs. Just think of North York vs the downtown core of Toronto.

The reason why I'm bringing this up is that with these new 10 storey buildings (and with other recents developments), there will be a cluster of buildings along Mapleton Road substantial enough to create an actual skyline appreciable (for example) to traffic passing by on the TCH. This could be important for the image of the city because the actual downtown core is far enough from the TCH that a driver passing through along the highway would never see it (unless he craned his head far enough to have a major accident).

By my count, there will be nine (and possibly thirteen) buildings large enough to be visible above the tree canopy to passing traffic. This will give the impression of urbanity at least. If over the next 10-15 years we get another half dozen or so similarly large buildings along Mapleton or LJR, then I think that would be enough to characterize this area as a secondary node in the greater Moncton area.

josh_cat_eyes · #**868** Posted **Oct 16, 2016, 1:57 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Oh I'm not suggesting that the Mapleton Road district should be competing with the downtown core, but a lot of urban areas have suburban developmental nexi in addition to the core where a cluster of at least moderate (if not high) density development occurs. Just think of North York vs the downtown core of Toronto.

The reason why I'm bringing this up is that with these new 10 storey buildings (and with other recents developments), there will be a cluster of buildings along Mapleton Road substantial enough to create an actual skyline appreciable (for example) to traffic passing by on the TCH. This could be important for the image of the city because the actual downtown core is far enough from the TCH that a driver passing through along the highway would never see it (unless he craned his head far enough to have a major accident).

By my count, there will be nine (and possibly thirteen) buildings large enough to be visible above the tree canopy to passing traffic. This will give the impression of urbanity at least. If over the next 10-15 years we get another half dozen or so similarly large buildings along Mapleton or LJR, then I think that would be enough to characterize this area as a secondary node in the greater Moncton area.

I agree, reminds me of Bedford a little bit. Still would be nice to see the growth occur downtown, something is better than nothing.

Feneant · #**869** Posted **Oct 16, 2016, 2:54 PM**

My personally, I absolutely think this area should compete with the downtown core but it's really not even a competition because our downtown is nothing. Every large city has their separate areas... downtown, old town, china town, the gay district, little Italy, etc. etc. whereas Moncton has 'Downtown Moncton' which is dead after 5Pm. When I was in my early 20s and we wanted to go out, we'd drive to Halifax probably as often as we hung out in Moncton.

It's 2016, Downtown Moncton has had 100 years of chances and they couldn't deliver, so let's move the action uptown, as you call it, and give people somewhere to come to with shopping, fine restaurants, entertainment, etc.

JHikka · #**870** Posted **Oct 16, 2016, 7:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feneant

My personally, I absolutely think this area should compete with the downtown core but it's really not even a competition because our downtown is nothing. Every large city has their separate areas... downtown, old town, china town, the gay district, little Italy, etc. etc. whereas Moncton has 'Downtown Moncton' which is dead after 5Pm. When I was in my early 20s and we wanted to go out, we'd drive to Halifax probably as often as we hung out in Moncton.

It's 2016, Downtown Moncton has had 100 years of chances and they couldn't deliver, so let's move the action uptown, as you call it, and give people somewhere to come to with shopping, fine restaurants, entertainment, etc.

I don't even know where to begin with this one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

That's fair enough I suppose. If you can get some density and height seen from the TCH you might give the impression to the odd person traveling through that Moncton is perhaps more dense than it would seem from the highway. Right now that impression is mostly power centres and gas stations.

OliverD · #**871** Posted **Oct 16, 2016, 8:53 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

In any event, if the Shannex Parkland Moncton doesn't begin in 2017, I would be pretty confident that it will start in 2018. I'm hopeful that it would be completed by 2020 (except perhaps for the Lifestyle Buildings #5-8, which strike me as being a "phase 2 thing").

That seems super optimistic. The Shannex Parkland in Fredericton has five buildings and it took about six or seven years to build out.

MonctonRad · #**872** Posted **Oct 16, 2016, 9:18 PM**

Where is the Shannex development in Freddy? How tall are the buildings?

OliverD · #**873** Posted **Oct 16, 2016, 9:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Where is the Shannex development in Freddy? How tall are the buildings?

It's located at Prospect and Patience Lane. The buildings are 2-5 storeys. I'm not sure if they are planning on building any additional buildings.

MonctonRad · #**874** Posted **Oct 16, 2016, 9:41 PM**

Thanks. I was basing my timeline on how quickly they have been working on their UdeM retirement home project where they built half the project in the first year.

The Shannex Parkland Moncton will be at least a two phase project, but I could see how it might be three phase. I'm willing to concede that the buildout may take longer, say 2022 or so.

Taeolas · #**875** Posted **Oct 16, 2016, 10:54 PM**

Google is 3 years out of date

The area they are in is basically west of the city, away from most other developments, so there isn't much need for 10 story buildings. Plus that big would be really out of place in that area.

MonctonRad · #**876** Posted **Oct 16, 2016, 11:06 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feneant

My personally, I absolutely think this area should compete with the downtown core but it's really not even a competition because our downtown is nothing. Every large city has their separate areas... downtown, old town, china town, the gay district, little Italy, etc. etc. whereas Moncton has 'Downtown Moncton' which is dead after 5Pm. When I was in my early 20s and we wanted to go out, we'd drive to Halifax probably as often as we hung out in Moncton.

It's 2016, Downtown Moncton has had 100 years of chances and they couldn't deliver, so let's move the action uptown, as you call it, and give people somewhere to come to with shopping, fine restaurants, entertainment, etc.

Even if the Mapleton/LJR/TCH area develops as a secondary node, that's no reason to give up on the downtown.

I've always felt and will continue to believe that downtown Moncton has tremendous potential, especially the area south of Main between Assumption in the east and Vaughan Harvey in the west. Others may see acres of surface parking, but I see land that is easily developable, and suitable for projects of varying sizes and uses.

The downtown has already taken major strides. The entire riverfront park area is a gem. The new RCMP Memorial was very well done and I love how this juxtaposes with the new law courts (and how it will juxtapose with the new police HQ building when it is built in the next 2-3 years). The events centre will transform the west end of the downtown core, and this kickstart is already visible with the Junction Urban Village (already under construction) and the Sobeys Extra & NBLC redevelopment. In the east end, the Downing Street redevelopment has oodles of potential (I love the new street lighting) and FiveFive Queen will be a major boost to the area around city hall. There will be a craft beer district around city hall with the Pumphouse, Tide & Boar and the Gahan House (when built).

This is just the beginning. We won't really know the impact of the events centre on the downtown until several years after it is built, but I'm confident we will see new residential (like on the old Highfield Square parking lot) and a redevelopment of the Aquilini Block. Downtown isn't going to die and it will gradually become the true center of the metropolitan area, not just in name but also in spirit. I remain very optimistic.

I'm also optimistic that the Mapleton Road district will continue to grow and build out. It will have (as Josh pointed out) the same relationship to metro Moncton as Bedford does to Halifax.

Other nodes will develop too. Certainly downtown Dieppe has lots of potential now, and this year I think has pushed DT Dieppe over the threshold of continuous growth. DT Dieppe will be "our" downtown Dartmouth. As for "uptown" Dieppe, I'm not so sure what the future holds. A few years ago, it seemed to have a lot of promise, but things seem to have stalled somewhat. uptown Dieppe might end up with the same type of future as downtown Riverview, as a neighbourhood commercial district - but that's OK. Every metropolitan area needs multiple commercial nodes..........

josh_cat_eyes · #**877** Posted **Oct 17, 2016, 1:29 AM**

I wonder if Costco waited until the new development got going if it could build their store on the new land that gets opened up, perhaps on Lady Ada. Then where Costco currently is, combined with the piece of land next to Dr McManaman, they could develop that into more residential.

MonctonRad · #**878** Posted **Oct 17, 2016, 2:42 AM**

I see that the first reading of a zoning amendment allowing for the Shannex Moncton Parkland project is coming before city council this week. That's even before the presentation to the PAC.

That's quick...........

Scarface · #**879** Posted **Oct 17, 2016, 3:21 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by josh_cat_eyes

I wonder if Costco waited until the new development got going if it could build their store on the new land that gets opened up, perhaps on Lady Ada. Then where Costco currently is, combined with the piece of land next to Dr McManaman, they could develop that into more residential.

I don't think the city would allow for a zoning change within a Power Centre. If that's what you mean. I do think a use could be found for the Costco site if they do move to a new location. Not certain how quickly that would happen it would all depend on the Commercial market.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I see that the first reading of a zoning amendment allowing for the Shannex Moncton Parkland project is coming before city council this week. That's even before the presentation to the PAC.

That's quick...........

We have a new record I guess. I wonder why the city council would be doing a first reading so quickly.

It's a positive thing I guess. I'm wondering if this is not the city trying to push forth City expansion given this first reading being done so quick, the land transfer deal in the works, and the city trying to help find new tenants for the old CBC/Radio Canada building. I think Moncton might be turning doing a 180, and going full speed ahead instead of what seemed to be taking 2 steps forward, and 5 steps back.

mmmatt · #**880** Posted **Oct 17, 2016, 3:46 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feneant

It's 2016, Downtown Moncton has had 100 years of chances and they couldn't deliver, so let's move the action uptown, as you call it, and give people somewhere to come to with shopping, fine restaurants, entertainment, etc.

There is room for both...and many other districts in this city. I'm curious if you have actually driven down main St recently as I do every day and can honestly say it's the fullest and busiest I've ever seen it. I may be on the younger side (29) but I remember when main St was full of vacancy and it wasn't that long ago...now there are tons of restaurants and bars all along there. The one thing lacking is a nightclub scene as it was in the past but I'm pretty sure night clubs aren't as big a "thing" anymore...they seem to be declining in most markets. The event centre is what we need to add some more life to the post 1700 time zone