Federal Government & Politics II

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by casper

What is interesting to observe about this is the reluctance of the leader of the opposition to obtain a security clearance so he can actually see the unredacted version of the report.

It's easier to spew innuendo like you were on an anonymous internet message board when you are in a position of power and people believe you because of that position, rather than be limited by the security clearance in what you are allowed to say publicly.

[Dartguard]

Originally Posted by casper

When the press asked the RCMP, they said:


The line from the government is the information was referred to the RCMP. It is up to the RCMP to determine if the evidence supports laying charges. These reports likely informed the decision making on who is in cabinet and who is not.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/no-a...ants-1.6919362

What is interesting to observe about this is the reluctance of the leader of the opposition to obtain a security clearance so he can actually see the unredacted version of the report.

The same RCMP that knew about the smuggling history and wife abuse of the N.S. shooter? That same killer that was visited by the RCMP 16 times over the years?

The RCMP will have to walk a very thin line as I would bet that most of the information pertaining to M.P.'s dabbling with foreign interference came from our five eyes partners. Methods and practices WILL NOT be exposed and if the RCMP know what M.P.'s are involved and some or most are in the governing party then what senior RCMP member in their right mind will flame this Government. This subject will just be another one to be ripped open after October 2025.

Its pretty pathetic for Liberals if their only defence is the leader of the Opposition won't play the Liberal game by getting a security clearance. Libs are the Government . Govern.

[casper]

Originally Posted by Dartguard

The same RCMP that knew about the smuggling history and wife abuse of the N.S. shooter? That same killer that was visited by the RCMP 16 times over the years?

The RCMP will have to walk a very thin line as I would bet that most of the information pertaining to M.P.'s dabbling with foreign interference came from our five eyes partners. Methods and practices WILL NOT be exposed and if the RCMP know what M.P.'s are involved and some or most are in the governing party then what senior RCMP member in their right mind will flame this Government. This subject will just be another one to be ripped open after October 2025.

So what would you rather have. Instead of the RCMP doing their job, the names are made public and the MPs are tried in the press.

Russia, India and China likely see the direction the wind is blowing. If they were trying to influence the liberals last election, they will likely switch their attention to the Conservatives in the next election.

Originally Posted by Dartguard

Its pretty pathetic for Liberals if their only defence is the leader of the Opposition won't play the Liberal game by getting a security clearance. Libs are the Government . Govern.

It looks like the Liberals are doing exactly that, govern. They have referred the matter to the RCMP. They are doing their job. It is not the job of the PM to hold an executive trial of MPs.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by casper

So what would you rather have. Instead of the RCMP doing their job, the names are made public and the MPs are tried in the press.

Russia, India and China likely see the direction the wind is blowing. If they were trying to influence the liberals last election, they will likely switch their attention to the Conservatives in the next election.



It looks like the Liberals are doing exactly that, govern. They have referred the matter to the RCMP. They are doing their job. It is not the job of the PM to hold an executive trial of MPs.

They should be investigated by a parliamentary committee and expelled from the House if the accusations are true, as Fred Rose was.

[Hecate]

Originally Posted by casper

So what would you rather have. Instead of the RCMP doing their job, the names are made public and the MPs are tried in the press.

Russia, India and China likely see the direction the wind is blowing. If they were trying to influence the liberals last election, they will likely switch their attention to the Conservatives in the next election.



It looks like the Liberals are doing exactly that, govern. They have referred the matter to the RCMP. They are doing their job. It is not the job of the PM to hold an executive trial of MPs.

People make public allegations all the time against people and they lose their jobs without a trial. In fact people like you support it. Johnny Depp and amber heard come to mind.

Do you seriously think the electorate doesn’t have a right to know what their MP, who is representing them, is up to?

[casper]

Originally Posted by acottawa

They should be investigated by a parliamentary committee and expelled from the House if the accusations are true, as Fred Rose was.

Well the Gouzenko affair was in the 1940s and focused on nuclear/military secrets. While it may have been effective, it is not a great example of Canadian justice. Holding people without access to lawyers.

Rose was tried and convicted by a commission, sentenced to jail, only then was he expelled from Parliament.

Originally Posted by Hecate

People make public allegations all the time against people and they lose their jobs without a trial. In fact people like you support it. Johnny Depp and amber heard come to mind.

Do you seriously think the electorate doesn’t have a right to know what their MP, who is representing them, is up to?

Yes, people make public allegations all the time. Those same people can be held to account for slander if the allegations are not true.

The government exercise great restraint on who it makes allegations about. Generally the government (law enforcement and prosecutors) prefers to have such information come out in legal fillings not press releases.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by acottawa

They should be investigated by a parliamentary committee and expelled from the House if the accusations are true, as Fred Rose was.

Rose was expelled from the House only after he had been charged and convicted of a criminal offence.

[ssiguy]

Canadians already hold our Parliamentarians in very low regard but finding out we have foreign operatives makes it exponentially worse. How are you suppose to vote for a local member when that member may be selling out our country to China or India or Iran?

I appreciate that the gov't doesn't want to release the names as it could hurt further investigations and it goes against our judicial system..............a person is innocent until proven guilty and, as far as I know, no one has actually been charged yet little alone convicted of a crime. If they are charged they should have to excuse themselves from any gov't work and being a local MP but maintain their salary until they have had their day in court and if found guilty all said remuneration should have to be returned and they should be thrown in prison for life after getting a good horse whipping.

This is what Trudeau is stating BUT he is doing so to save his own skin. Trudeau is being forced to release the names because he set the precedent. Remember this is the guy who, when floundering in the polls, stood up on the first day of Parliament and accused India of interfering with Canadian internal affairs in regards to the murder in Surrey. He has permanently damaged our relationship with an up and coming superpower and has yet to release a single piece of evidence.

He wouldn't be in the position of having to defend not releasing the names of the traitorous MPs if he wasn't such a hypocrite.

[Truenorth00]

It's a cute game the Liberals are playing here. They know the intelligence community and MPs with clearance will never release information about MPs without charges. And yet a ton of unethical conduct flies under the criminal standard. So there are a bunch of MPs who could be influence peddling for foreign governments who will never be charged and therefore never have their identities revealed.

Chance for the Tories to step up and offer to launch an independent investigation into foreign influence peddling by government.

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

It's easier to spew innuendo like you were on an anonymous internet message board when you are in a position of power and people believe you because of that position, rather than be limited by the security clearance in what you are allowed to say publicly.

Gotta say, there's an awful lot of innuendo being spewed by a lot of people here, and it's shameful that moderators just let it slide. This thread and others like it here are becoming breeding grounds for the far-right nonsense that's an absolute plague on our society.

[Dartguard]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

Gotta say, there's an awful lot of innuendo being spewed by a lot of people here, and it's shameful that moderators just let it slide. This thread and others like it here are becoming breeding grounds for the far-right nonsense that's an absolute plague on our society.

Far Right Nonsense?, when it smells it smells.

Good God man the Liberals have their Sheep.This Government has demonstrated for almost 9 years that they are a deeply unserious Government when it comes to security. They just don't get it. Even when they do they ignore, accuse ( see above "far right nonsense" ) and hope it all goes away.
Where oh where are the Adults.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

Gotta say, there's an awful lot of innuendo being spewed by a lot of people here, and it's shameful that moderators just let it slide. This thread and others like it here are becoming breeding grounds for the far-right nonsense that's an absolute plague on our society.

If you think this forum is “far-right”, your political scale is really poorly calibrated.

That said, I did address something, hopefully to your satisfaction.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by Black Star

Roughly ten years ago, Canada was a very different place. Our standard of living was higher by a factor of 10. We didn't have a low vibe low Eye Q activist taking this country into the gutter. We were regarded as a serious country on the world stage. And Canadians in general got along with one another because affluence and a sense of upward mobility naturally breed generosity and patience.

But since about 2015, everything began a slow and inexorable decline. Today the only thing this country manufactures are grievances. Climate, diversity, gender, that’s all that gets any political action or attention. Catering to ever tinier specialty interests while deriding the majority is a political sleight of hand that characterises the disingenuous Trudeau brand of politics. Divide the population so that no one pays attention to the self-dealing going on behind the curtain.
All coming from an inferior, unlikeable, un-trustable teen-man. He And this horrible liberal/ndp hard left crazy Govt deserve a Complete and utter political ending soon

Yet in Ontario under Doug Ford little has changed and a lot of the things that you mentioned that Trudeau gets associated with are still happening provincially. The Ford PCs have been in power for 6 years.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Rose was expelled from the House only after he had been charged and convicted of a criminal offence.

That should be an argument at the debate, it is the argument some republicans made in the George Santos expulsion.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by lio45

If you think this forum is “far-right”, your political scale is really poorly calibrated.

That said, I did address something, hopefully to your satisfaction.

Any criticism of the Dear Leader and the Sacred Socks is far right.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Any criticism of the Dear Leader and the Sacred Socks is far right.

You're right. But also it's kinda hard to take the criticism of people who never gave Trudeau or the LPC government a chance seriously. Liberal partisans that bitched right from day one about Harper were equally annoying. At least to me.....

An added problem with partisans too, is that they aren't interested in policy. Politics is just another chance to wear a jersey and cheer for a team. Ergo, most of them will not care to understand why this government failed and will be rabidly defensive when their team (inevitably) fucks up.

[CanSpice]

.

[theman23]

This forum isn’t far right, it just so happens we have a fairly terrible political party in power that markets itself as “progressive”. Things will go back to normal when we can bitch about the CPC.

[kool maudit]

Don't worry so much about meta issues. The tone and tenor. The Overton window. Normalization. This is to think like an administrator of the thing, which is a way to place yourself apart from the conversation. Say what you think is true and denounce what you think is false, and do so with vigor. That's the whole of it.

[shreddog]

Originally Posted by casper

On the environmental side. I know in the past we have had irresponsible governments that allowed the oil and mining sector to get away with unacceptable actions.

Can you provide examples?

Originally Posted by casper

However we have dramatically straightened our environment laws over the last 10 years.

Again, can you provide examples of how the government has straightened our laws?
If you're talking about S-5, I'd be really curious as to how who believe it has straightened things out.