Phoenix Development News (3)

[PHXFlyer11]

Originally Posted by dtnphx

The southern convention center building was renovated? When? It certainly hasn't been renovated outside and looks it. Again, they can incorporate meeting space with the new arena. Also, the surrounding infrastructure and amenities got their start with AWA. To lose an arena like it's a ho-hum, no big deal thing is not realistic. I'm not opposed to State Fair site, per se, but it's not ideal. Having a fair for three weeks a year compared with 80 game days (Suns and Coyotes) and possiblymore and all that traffic surrounded by such low density housing--not so ideal.

Would the fair site benefit, of course. Any area of town would benefit, but at the expense of downtown. I don't think downtown PHX is at a level yet where the Suns could leave and the restaurants and retail would survive. I think it would be a grave mistake.

[gymratmanaz]

I agree. The Suns would be better served, as would the other businesses, for the new Arena to be close to where it is now, within 7 blocks-ish.

[azsunsurfer]

Other than the old civic plaza block, where else downtown could you possibly fit a new arena? I think that's it. Everywhere else you run into landownership issues and potential lawsuits.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by azsunsurfer

Other than the old civic plaza block, where else downtown could you possibly fit a new arena? I think that's it. Everywhere else you run into landownership issues and potential lawsuits.

Or a remodel/tear down of Talking Stick have the Suns play at jobbing or Wells Fargo for a year

[dtnphx]

Originally Posted by Obadno

Or a remodel/tear down of Talking Stick have the Suns play at jobbing or Wells Fargo for a year

That could be doable except for the fact is that I don't think they could get it built in just one year.

[biggus diggus]

Originally Posted by dtnphx

That could be doable except for the fact is that I don't think they could get it built in just one year.

To be fair though the suns wont make the playoffs any time soon so the off-season is a bit longer than normal.

[Obadno]

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/n...to-become.html

Hey more great news that BMO chose a central location instead of relocating out to the 101 corridor or far north valley

[PHXFlyer11]

Originally Posted by Obadno

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/n...to-become.html

Hey more great news that BMO chose a central location instead of relocating out to the 101 corridor or far north valley

Great news! Nice win for Midtown. Not only do they stay in midtown, but it looks like they are moving forward with turning the BMO building into residential!

[combusean]

Originally Posted by dtnphx

The southern convention center building was renovated? When? It certainly hasn't been renovated outside and looks it. Again, they can incorporate meeting space with the new arena. Also, the surrounding infrastructure and amenities got their start with AWA. To lose an arena like it's a ho-hum, no big deal thing is not realistic. I'm not opposed to State Fair site, per se, but it's not ideal. Having a fair for three weeks a year compared with 80 game days (Suns and Coyotes) and possiblymore and all that traffic surrounded by such low density housing--not so ideal.

Convention centers don't matter to anyone how they look on the outside--it's the space inside that counts. To that end, it has been renovated on the inside to match the look and feel of the newer buildings. This renovation has been done within the last 10 years.

The South Building is not functionally obsolete at all--it meshes well with the current space and there's been practically no thought of demolishing or doing anything with it until now other than the fact that the North Building was constructed with a false south wall in its underground cavernous exhibition space that may someday connect with a potential South Building replacement.

On its surface, it's totally asinine to look at a building like that for the land value alone when the replacement costs of its space would be so high. Maybe, if they could somehow increase the rentable square feet of the convention center with an arena on the South Building I could be in favor of it, but I find that unlikely.

And I was suggesting the Fairgrounds site only because putting it there would be better than demolishing the south building. I think the best place for the arena in Phoenix given what anyone knows for sure is for the railyards to the east of downtown and building some kind of people mover/trolley over the existing tracks at 12th St to connect with the LRT.

Then raze the existing arena and let the private market put a few towers on the site.

[gymratmanaz]

what would the cross streets be you are suggesting Combusean?

[combusean]

Edit:

Between 11th St and 12th St, Jefferson and Jackson.

Next to the LRT station. Screw anything about putting it further south when there's already a bunch of city land right there.

[biggus diggus]

Any redevelopment of the rail yard will likely not be soon enough for an arena, they haven't even stopped using it yet.

[combusean]

That's why I changed my mind and put it further north on top of the existing city land between 11th/12th, Jefferson and Jackson, outside of the railyards.

I don't know why this hasn't been suggested before. CoP has an aging fire station complex and parking lot in that area, and that whole 10 acre block is completely under utilized.

[biggus diggus]

A acquaintance owns (or has in escrow) almost every parcel on that street. Banking for when the rail yard is redeveloped, the city lost their chances there already.

[Jjs5056]

I think you guys are overestimating the economic value of having the Suns downtown. There are dozens of research projects on this matter and all have concluded similarly that arenas fail to attract the development that is promised when they are proposed to taxpayers- any development that occurs is merely coincidence/due to other economic drivers. This is why more and more cities have voted down publicly funded sports venues in recent years, and why the ones that do approve them add things like affordable housing and other public benefits. That's not to say I want the arena to move away from downtown. I think it adds vitality to the area, defines that part of town as the entertainment district, and it's just nice to have a city's sporting franchise in the city center. But, I don't think they should get away with a brand new arena without some major concessions, especially if convention center space is demo'd and taken offline for a period of time and/or an empty arena will be left to market forces, suffocating the warehouse district.

I think the ideal is building the arena where it exists now. It's the most visible, fits well within the context of the other venues, and has the most potential to activate other parts of downtown with the right project. Any public plan for this site should also include the lot to the west where the St. James stump sits. Require a certain amount of parking be built underground, the remaining wrapped in other uses; a minimum amount of retail space, with minimum frontages along Jackson, 1st Street and Jefferson; minimum amount of residential and/or hotel space, with minimum % affordable. I'd like to mandate a Legends Entertainment Museum and HOF, and Legends Square open space with recreational amenities and programs for youth, but that's pushing it...

If not the current site, across the street would be the 2nd-best. Colliers should be open to the sale since they'll likely profit nicely on land they've struggled to develop, and if done right, an LA Live type of scene could be established with CityScape and Colliers on either side. I just really dislike the idea of the south CC site. It is surrounded by dead space that is unlikely to be developed anytime soon, if ever. And, I wouldn't think any mixed use on that site would survive, though I guess it could be built in a way that allowed retail to be added along 3rd and Jefferson if a hotel were ever built at Colliers. But, what happens to the current arena? The only way I could see it justified would be requiring redevelopment of that site immediately following the move, but I can't see Phoenix doing that.

[Jjs5056]

Sad to hear that Tuft & Needle moved away from Grant; I can't help but wonder what Evans Churchill or the WD might look like without Grand Ave's presence. Demolitions and land-banking limit growth in EC, I suppose, but it's a little disappointing to see the most flourishing arts district is the one least connected to downtown.
----

Back to Grant: a Denver technology school just moved into the warehouse next door with WebPT, which is a perfect fit for what the WD needs. With that school, more employers, and expanding ASU presence, it would seem that affordable housing would be around the corner, and finally, the retail to support those residents and employees. Giving the George Washington Carver Museum the renovations and daily service it deserves would be a great project for ASU to lead, and an Artspace project anywhere in the vicinity of 3rd St/Lincoln that brought affordable live/work housing, studio space, and offices were art non-profits would give the WD its first actual anchor.
http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/b...anding-to.html

A recent article mentioned trying to relocate the Phoenix Job Corps which has a huge presence in the WD. I think that's a short-sighted move to gain land; the WD is filled with organizations aimed at providing services for youth and others struggling with homelessness/unemployment/addiction, etc. and history has taught us that simply displacing those services has devastating impacts. Rather than kick out hundreds of students, why not consolidate all of these functions into a 1 or 2 lot urban campus that integrates these students/people into the WD vs. the isolated buildings they live/learn in now.

I think that a lot filled with midrise dorms, gym/community center, job training/services, and 1 or 2 retailers committed to hiring students or transitional employees would do a lot more for the WD than a 4-story midrise apartment built in 10 years on one of the current Job Corps lots.

[Jjs5056]

Also, can't remember what thread exit2lef mentioned Mornin' Moonshine's new patio in, but in re: to that... I feel the need to reiterate how unfortunate it is that all of the great retailers being added to 111 Monroe are only accessible through the lobby. It limits them economically and is sad from an aesthetics POV to lose the chance at creating a cool retail cluster. I mean, did anyone ever realize there was a pizza place, cafe, jeweler, ink supply store, and more inside Renaissance Square? I certainly didn't - all were accessible via the lobby and none had any real visible signage.

He also mentioned Cornish Pasty. Looks like they'll open around the time the Hilton does across the street:
http://downtowndevil.com/2015/12/07/...-on-wednesday/

I had been bitching about Mackay and MCCCD using the attractive warehouses on Van Buren/6th Ave as co-working space for GateWay CC. I take back 90% of the criticism, as it seems the space is more accessible to the public than I imagined, and is focused on creation rather than ideation, which is actually a decent fit for the area. I was picturing your typical business center-like co-working environment. I still think/hope that MCCCD should invest in new construction along WVB.
http://downtownphoenixjournal.com/20...ut-makerspace/

On the topic of coffee shops, a great story behind the one at Roosevelt Point. On top of that, happy to hear it will be open late serving food and alcohol, and will sell clothing, etc. Great addition to RR.
http://downtowndevil.com/2015/12/08/...s-coffee-shop/

[ASU Diablo]

Regardless where their permanent home ends up (i'm one for South CC site), looks like Coyotes are looking at The Coliseum on a temp basis.

http://arizonasports.com/story/48708...emporary-home/

[PHXFlyer11]

Originally Posted by airomero83

Regardless where their permanent home ends up (i'm one for South CC site), looks like Coyotes are looking at The Coliseum on a temp basis.

http://arizonasports.com/story/48708...emporary-home/

I think that'd be VERY cool, for ONE season.

[nickw252]

Originally Posted by PHXFlyer11

I think that'd be VERY cool, for ONE season.

Agreed, for ONE season. It'd be nice to have the fair grounds actually get some use during the rest of the year. It may also help the area restaurants and bars, and actually spur some retail growth.